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Arguments for Alex Smith and Shaun Hill to Start

Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.


We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Who's saying anything like that??

Look at the difference in drop balls, one receiver complains about the pass looking like a punt (I haven't seen that complaint yet) but he can't even catch the ball. Go back and look at the drops from 2006-2007 to this year and compare ball placement.

BTW, where's Hill's 1,700 yard rusher at?? Is it me or did Hill have more rushing yards than our RB this past game?? You simply can't say that this OL is much better than the one that had big Larry Allen in 2006.

And yes I will blame Raye, when he keeps running 1-2 yard rushing calls every 1st and 2nd down, then expect a predictable pass play on 3rd to get us through the game.

Smith had a lot of excellent passes in both years, including one that many remember in the 2007 opener that was dropped in the end zone. Battle's fumble not only cost Smith a TD, it almost cost the 49ers the game. But on top of that, even in games where Smith made a couple not-so-perfect passes, I was not disappointed in the least, because I did NOT expect Smith -- a 21-year old QB starting for the first -- to come and set the world on fire.

The team as a whole -- aside from Gore (who we all know likes Smith) -- offensive players, defense, and coaches included, did not offer a great deal of help to Smith in their contributions to the team's success. I do NOT want to see ANYone try and claim Hill has a worse team that Smith did, just to justify any subpar play by Shaun. If Shaun cannot succeed this year, I will not make excuses for him, nor will I for any other QB.

I did not at all say this year's OL is better. I wasn't comparing statistics or anything or measuring how often each was sacked. My comments were presented situationally, meaning in situations where Hill is sacked or pressured and can't make the throw, the OL seemingly takes all the blame from fans now instead of Hill. Smith gets no such favor. I'm speaking about things that I've been seeing for a loooong time, which stretch far beyond the beginning of this season.

Come on, man. Hill makes some ugly, ugly throws. We all know that. Hill does not throw a pretty ball. I can't agree at all that Hill's "placement" of the ball has been significantly better than Smith's. Such judgments are highly subjective.

If Hill is playing so bad without Gore, why is no one saying "Gore must be carrying Hill. Look at the difference." ? Hill's 1700 yard rusher is on the team. If you were tracking Gore -- after week 2 -- He would've been on pace for almost 1900 yards. But of course, that's skewed, so let's add his 4 yards from week three before getting hurt. Then he's on pace for 1300 yards. Okay, how about we put it in between -- 1600 yards..

Everyone knows Gore is the heart of this team and a big contributor on offense, but please don't downplay any good play by our QB just because of Gore's individual accomplishments.

And now, if Raye is running, does he have less trust in Hill than Turner had in Smith?

So many reasons to believe that this supposed superiority of Hill implied by fans, simply does not exist.

You see we could go round and round with this without EVER coming to an agreement. Sure Smith had a few nice passes here and there, but if you go back and look its always too little too late, in other words when the game is out of reach or when we are behind. Sometimes like Hill, it takes Smith a while to settle down and sometimes he never does, then tends to look indecisive and timid throughout games. Its pretty much the same, with Smith as in Hill, if things aren't clicking on all cylinders as a team Smith more times than not cannot function as you've just seen in Hill this past Sunday.

Why is no one saying Gore is carrying Hill, well, because he isn't, go back and look at the first three games before he was injured. The running game was (is) very inconsistent, and releases no pressure from Hill. Sure Gore had a good game vs. Seattle, but aside from his two 75 yard runs, it was very inconsistent. But nonetheless, Hill does manage to come through with drives every now and then to HELP this team, and yet, I see people even denying that.

Put it this way, Kolohe. The fact that Smith supporters can actually pinpoint each and every accolade that Smith achieved as starter, and also point out each and every "what coulda been's" in Smith's career just goes to show how limited his success really was.

You dont even have to point out why Hill is a better QB, because he has a list of achievements on his resume that dont require defending.


Yeah like being a bench warmer for 4yrs


And a better QB rating and winning percentage than anyone else on our team.

But you're right, he sat on the bench for a couple years, so we should bench him again.
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.


We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Who's saying anything like that??

Look at the difference in drop balls, one receiver complains about the pass looking like a punt (I haven't seen that complaint yet) but he can't even catch the ball. Go back and look at the drops from 2006-2007 to this year and compare ball placement.

BTW, where's Hill's 1,700 yard rusher at?? Is it me or did Hill have more rushing yards than our RB this past game?? You simply can't say that this OL is much better than the one that had big Larry Allen in 2006.

And yes I will blame Raye, when he keeps running 1-2 yard rushing calls every 1st and 2nd down, then expect a predictable pass play on 3rd to get us through the game.

Smith had a lot of excellent passes in both years, including one that many remember in the 2007 opener that was dropped in the end zone. Battle's fumble not only cost Smith a TD, it almost cost the 49ers the game. But on top of that, even in games where Smith made a couple not-so-perfect passes, I was not disappointed in the least, because I did NOT expect Smith -- a 21-year old QB starting for the first -- to come and set the world on fire.

The team as a whole -- aside from Gore (who we all know likes Smith) -- offensive players, defense, and coaches included, did not offer a great deal of help to Smith in their contributions to the team's success. I do NOT want to see ANYone try and claim Hill has a worse team that Smith did, just to justify any subpar play by Shaun. If Shaun cannot succeed this year, I will not make excuses for him, nor will I for any other QB.

I did not at all say this year's OL is better. I wasn't comparing statistics or anything or measuring how often each was sacked. My comments were presented situationally, meaning in situations where Hill is sacked or pressured and can't make the throw, the OL seemingly takes all the blame from fans now instead of Hill. Smith gets no such favor. I'm speaking about things that I've been seeing for a loooong time, which stretch far beyond the beginning of this season.

Come on, man. Hill makes some ugly, ugly throws. We all know that. Hill does not throw a pretty ball. I can't agree at all that Hill's "placement" of the ball has been significantly better than Smith's. Such judgments are highly subjective.

If Hill is playing so bad without Gore, why is no one saying "Gore must be carrying Hill. Look at the difference." ? Hill's 1700 yard rusher is on the team. If you were tracking Gore -- after week 2 -- He would've been on pace for almost 1900 yards. But of course, that's skewed, so let's add his 4 yards from week three before getting hurt. Then he's on pace for 1300 yards. Okay, how about we put it in between -- 1600 yards..

Everyone knows Gore is the heart of this team and a big contributor on offense, but please don't downplay any good play by our QB just because of Gore's individual accomplishments.

And now, if Raye is running, does he have less trust in Hill than Turner had in Smith?

So many reasons to believe that this supposed superiority of Hill implied by fans, simply does not exist.

You see we could go round and round with this without EVER coming to an agreement. Sure Smith had a few nice passes here and there, but if you go back and look its always too little too late, in other words when the game is out of reach or when we are behind. Sometimes like Hill, it takes Smith a while to settle down and sometimes he never does, then tends to look indecisive and timid throughout games. Its pretty much the same, with Smith as in Hill, if things aren't clicking on all cylinders as a team Smith more times than not cannot function as you've just seen in Hill this past Sunday.

Why is no one saying Gore is carrying Hill, well, because he isn't, go back and look at the first three games before he was injured. The running game was (is) very inconsistent, and releases no pressure from Hill. Sure Gore had a good game vs. Seattle, but aside from his two 75 yard runs, it was very inconsistent. But nonetheless, Hill does manage to come through with drives every now and then to HELP this team, and yet, I see people even denying that.

Put it this way, Kolohe. The fact that Smith supporters can actually pinpoint each and every accolade that Smith achieved as starter, and also point out each and every "what coulda been's" in Smith's career just goes to show how limited his success really was.

You dont even have to point out why Hill is a better QB, because he has a list of achievements on his resume that dont require defending.


Yeah like being a bench warmer for 4yrs


And a better QB rating and winning percentage than anyone else on our team.

But you're right, he sat on the bench for a couple years, so we should bench him again.

Qb rating is the dumbest statistic ever that should never be included because it does not count sacks extending of the play etc. Hill would rather take a sack than throw an in completion which would affect his passer rating. Over rated stat.
[ Edited by Norwalks_Best on Oct 18, 2009 at 9:53 PM ]
Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.


We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Who's saying anything like that??

Look at the difference in drop balls, one receiver complains about the pass looking like a punt (I haven't seen that complaint yet) but he can't even catch the ball. Go back and look at the drops from 2006-2007 to this year and compare ball placement.

BTW, where's Hill's 1,700 yard rusher at?? Is it me or did Hill have more rushing yards than our RB this past game?? You simply can't say that this OL is much better than the one that had big Larry Allen in 2006.

And yes I will blame Raye, when he keeps running 1-2 yard rushing calls every 1st and 2nd down, then expect a predictable pass play on 3rd to get us through the game.

Smith had a lot of excellent passes in both years, including one that many remember in the 2007 opener that was dropped in the end zone. Battle's fumble not only cost Smith a TD, it almost cost the 49ers the game. But on top of that, even in games where Smith made a couple not-so-perfect passes, I was not disappointed in the least, because I did NOT expect Smith -- a 21-year old QB starting for the first -- to come and set the world on fire.

The team as a whole -- aside from Gore (who we all know likes Smith) -- offensive players, defense, and coaches included, did not offer a great deal of help to Smith in their contributions to the team's success. I do NOT want to see ANYone try and claim Hill has a worse team that Smith did, just to justify any subpar play by Shaun. If Shaun cannot succeed this year, I will not make excuses for him, nor will I for any other QB.

I did not at all say this year's OL is better. I wasn't comparing statistics or anything or measuring how often each was sacked. My comments were presented situationally, meaning in situations where Hill is sacked or pressured and can't make the throw, the OL seemingly takes all the blame from fans now instead of Hill. Smith gets no such favor. I'm speaking about things that I've been seeing for a loooong time, which stretch far beyond the beginning of this season.

Come on, man. Hill makes some ugly, ugly throws. We all know that. Hill does not throw a pretty ball. I can't agree at all that Hill's "placement" of the ball has been significantly better than Smith's. Such judgments are highly subjective.

If Hill is playing so bad without Gore, why is no one saying "Gore must be carrying Hill. Look at the difference." ? Hill's 1700 yard rusher is on the team. If you were tracking Gore -- after week 2 -- He would've been on pace for almost 1900 yards. But of course, that's skewed, so let's add his 4 yards from week three before getting hurt. Then he's on pace for 1300 yards. Okay, how about we put it in between -- 1600 yards..

Everyone knows Gore is the heart of this team and a big contributor on offense, but please don't downplay any good play by our QB just because of Gore's individual accomplishments.

And now, if Raye is running, does he have less trust in Hill than Turner had in Smith?

So many reasons to believe that this supposed superiority of Hill implied by fans, simply does not exist.

You see we could go round and round with this without EVER coming to an agreement. Sure Smith had a few nice passes here and there, but if you go back and look its always too little too late, in other words when the game is out of reach or when we are behind. Sometimes like Hill, it takes Smith a while to settle down and sometimes he never does, then tends to look indecisive and timid throughout games. Its pretty much the same, with Smith as in Hill, if things aren't clicking on all cylinders as a team Smith more times than not cannot function as you've just seen in Hill this past Sunday.

Why is no one saying Gore is carrying Hill, well, because he isn't, go back and look at the first three games before he was injured. The running game was (is) very inconsistent, and releases no pressure from Hill. Sure Gore had a good game vs. Seattle, but aside from his two 75 yard runs, it was very inconsistent. But nonetheless, Hill does manage to come through with drives every now and then to HELP this team, and yet, I see people even denying that.

Put it this way, Kolohe. The fact that Smith supporters can actually pinpoint each and every accolade that Smith achieved as starter, and also point out each and every "what coulda been's" in Smith's career just goes to show how limited his success really was.

You dont even have to point out why Hill is a better QB, because he has a list of achievements on his resume that dont require defending.


Yeah like being a bench warmer for 4yrs


And a better QB rating and winning percentage than anyone else on our team.

But you're right, he sat on the bench for a couple years, so we should bench him again.

Qb rating is the dumbest statistic ever that should never be included because it does not count sacks extending of the play etc. Hill would rather take a sack than throw an in completion which would affect his passer rating. Over rated stat.

Well WTF then? How are we supposed to compare the two guys if we throw out their stats and winning percentage?

Jesus Christ, I swear, most people here just want a guy who looks pretty in the pocket and throws the ball really really far.

Shaun ain't Peyton Manning, but he's the best option we have right now.
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.


We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Who's saying anything like that??

Look at the difference in drop balls, one receiver complains about the pass looking like a punt (I haven't seen that complaint yet) but he can't even catch the ball. Go back and look at the drops from 2006-2007 to this year and compare ball placement.

BTW, where's Hill's 1,700 yard rusher at?? Is it me or did Hill have more rushing yards than our RB this past game?? You simply can't say that this OL is much better than the one that had big Larry Allen in 2006.

And yes I will blame Raye, when he keeps running 1-2 yard rushing calls every 1st and 2nd down, then expect a predictable pass play on 3rd to get us through the game.

Smith had a lot of excellent passes in both years, including one that many remember in the 2007 opener that was dropped in the end zone. Battle's fumble not only cost Smith a TD, it almost cost the 49ers the game. But on top of that, even in games where Smith made a couple not-so-perfect passes, I was not disappointed in the least, because I did NOT expect Smith -- a 21-year old QB starting for the first -- to come and set the world on fire.

The team as a whole -- aside from Gore (who we all know likes Smith) -- offensive players, defense, and coaches included, did not offer a great deal of help to Smith in their contributions to the team's success. I do NOT want to see ANYone try and claim Hill has a worse team that Smith did, just to justify any subpar play by Shaun. If Shaun cannot succeed this year, I will not make excuses for him, nor will I for any other QB.

I did not at all say this year's OL is better. I wasn't comparing statistics or anything or measuring how often each was sacked. My comments were presented situationally, meaning in situations where Hill is sacked or pressured and can't make the throw, the OL seemingly takes all the blame from fans now instead of Hill. Smith gets no such favor. I'm speaking about things that I've been seeing for a loooong time, which stretch far beyond the beginning of this season.

Come on, man. Hill makes some ugly, ugly throws. We all know that. Hill does not throw a pretty ball. I can't agree at all that Hill's "placement" of the ball has been significantly better than Smith's. Such judgments are highly subjective.

If Hill is playing so bad without Gore, why is no one saying "Gore must be carrying Hill. Look at the difference." ? Hill's 1700 yard rusher is on the team. If you were tracking Gore -- after week 2 -- He would've been on pace for almost 1900 yards. But of course, that's skewed, so let's add his 4 yards from week three before getting hurt. Then he's on pace for 1300 yards. Okay, how about we put it in between -- 1600 yards..

Everyone knows Gore is the heart of this team and a big contributor on offense, but please don't downplay any good play by our QB just because of Gore's individual accomplishments.

And now, if Raye is running, does he have less trust in Hill than Turner had in Smith?

So many reasons to believe that this supposed superiority of Hill implied by fans, simply does not exist.

You see we could go round and round with this without EVER coming to an agreement. Sure Smith had a few nice passes here and there, but if you go back and look its always too little too late, in other words when the game is out of reach or when we are behind. Sometimes like Hill, it takes Smith a while to settle down and sometimes he never does, then tends to look indecisive and timid throughout games. Its pretty much the same, with Smith as in Hill, if things aren't clicking on all cylinders as a team Smith more times than not cannot function as you've just seen in Hill this past Sunday.

Why is no one saying Gore is carrying Hill, well, because he isn't, go back and look at the first three games before he was injured. The running game was (is) very inconsistent, and releases no pressure from Hill. Sure Gore had a good game vs. Seattle, but aside from his two 75 yard runs, it was very inconsistent. But nonetheless, Hill does manage to come through with drives every now and then to HELP this team, and yet, I see people even denying that.

Put it this way, Kolohe. The fact that Smith supporters can actually pinpoint each and every accolade that Smith achieved as starter, and also point out each and every "what coulda been's" in Smith's career just goes to show how limited his success really was.

You dont even have to point out why Hill is a better QB, because he has a list of achievements on his resume that dont require defending.


Yeah like being a bench warmer for 4yrs


And a better QB rating and winning percentage than anyone else on our team.

But you're right, he sat on the bench for a couple years, so we should bench him again.

Smith had 1 td and 11 interceptions his rookie season with a horrific 9er team. The only way for him to recover from those statistics is if he were to continue to play and improve his game. Going from 1-11 to 16-16 in one year is a pretty significant improvement, but if Hill fans want to hang on to the whole statistical argument that he's better because he has no bad rookie statistics then so be it, theres no way for Smith to win that argument. But there's clearly a reason as to why Hill has no rookie statistics, please keep that in mind.