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Arguments for Alex Smith and Shaun Hill to Start

The best bet is neither is a long term answer. All I want is to see Smith start 1..maybe 2 games and see what he can do. At that point we can seriously evaluate both QB's and make the correct decision for the future, maybe we keep both, maybe we keep 1, or maybe we release both. But we need to know what we have, so going into the 2010 and 2011 drafts we can target the correct positions.
Originally posted by jreff22:
The best bet is neither is a long term answer. All I want is to see Smith start 1..maybe 2 games and see what he can do. At that point we can seriously evaluate both QB's and make the correct decision for the future, maybe we keep both, maybe we keep 1, or maybe we release both. But we need to know what we have, so going into the 2010 and 2011 drafts we can target the correct positions.

What exactly does this mean? The best bet is neither. How would that be our best bet?
Why would anyone want this guy who has a squatty stance which makes him 5'10 or shorter in the pocket and horrible mechanics. Hill bends his knees so far down that he can barely see over our o-lineman to make a pass, then when he's unable to see over the lineman he just runs into Baas and blames the o-lineman for giving up a sack.

I mean just look at his mechanics compared to Smith's:





Smith would be able to clearly be able to see over his o-lineman and possibly take less sacks with this height and mobility improvement.
Originally posted by Mospeed:
Why would anyone want this guy who has a squatty stance which makes him 5'10 or shorter in the pocket and horrible mechanics. Hill bends his knees so far down that he can barely see over our o-lineman to make a pass, then when he's unable to see over the lineman he just runs into Baas and blames the o-lineman for giving up a sack.

I mean just look at his mechanics compared to Smith's:





Smith would be able to clearly be able to see over his o-lineman and possibly take less sacks with this height and mobility improvement.

LOL, seriously?

You just took good pictures of Alex and bad pictures of Shaun, and put them side by side.
How are those bad pictures of Shaun Hill? Thats what his mechanics look like, just the fact that you claim they look bad proves my point and I was only using them as a reference. I've had plenty of other posts in this thread.
this in thread.....we compliment Alex Smith's mechanics
Yep, I went back and read from page 29 and I'm seeing a lot of double standards here from Hill fans. One poster asked where Hill's 1700 rusher is as if Gore didn't single handedly win the Seattle game so Hill fans could gloat about how Hill was undefeated at home. I'm really starting to think Hill fans are delusional now that they're saying that more receivers are dropping balls under Hill than they did under Smith. Hill fans are the first to point fingers at Chilo Rachal yet forget completely about what Smith had to deal with behind Kwame Harris.

I really have nothing against Shaun Hill but every time I see him drop back in his squatty stance which probably makes him 5'10 or shorter and throw the ball in an awkward side-arm motion only to have it batted down by a lineman I question how Singletary could think he gives us the best chance at making the playoffs.

Just look at Joe Flacco today against the Vikings. They had the same exact problems we had against them except they found themselves down early in the game. Flacco stood tall in the pocket, stepped up and at the first sign of trouble he found the drop off, even while in the process of being taken to the ground and in the end he had 10 passes completed to Ray Rice for 117 yards and 3 to Heap for 51 and there are Hill fans in this very thread complaining about how Smith drops the ball off too often...

Just makes me sick.
Originally posted by Mospeed:
Yep, I went back and read from page 29 and I'm seeing a lot of double standards here from Hill fans. One poster asked where Hill's 1700 rusher is as if Gore didn't single handedly win the Seattle game so Hill fans could gloat about how Hill was undefeated at home. I'm really starting to think Hill fans are delusional now that they're saying that more receivers are dropping balls under Hill than they did under Smith. Hill fans are the first to point fingers at Chilo Rachal yet forget completely about what Smith had to deal with behind Kwame Harris.

I really have nothing against Shaun Hill but every time I see him drop back in his squatty stance which probably makes him 5'10 or shorter and throw the ball in an awkward side-arm motion only to have it batted down by a lineman I question how Singletary could think he gives us the best chance at making the playoffs.

Just look at Joe Flacco today against the Vikings. They had the same exact problems we had against them except they found themselves down early in the game. Flacco stood tall in the pocket, stepped up and at the first sign of trouble he found the drop off, even while in the process of being taken to the ground and in the end he had 10 passes completed to Ray Rice for 117 yards and 3 to Heap for 51 and there are Hill fans in this very thread complaining about how Smith drops the ball off too often...

Just makes me sick.

If that makes you sick, you must not remember how Smith played when he was starter.

Most people here don't think Hill is some savior or anything, we just think he's our best option right now. And he is.
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

The team wins, and the QB gets SOME credit, I still see a lot of Hill sucks comments even when the team wins. The team losses and the QB gets THEE credit, depends, how many picks were contributed (that weren't tipped) and fumbles?? If not, plain and simple it was a team loss.

you say that the QB gets SOME credit. Then why is it that Hill has been labeled as just winning football games?

Gore has been winning football games as well, so has Isaac Bruce and Vernon Davis, see where I'm going with this??

I understand your point. But one person thinking logically doesn't make it the normal ideology amongst fans. Look at the loss against the falcons. Everyone blamed Hill. Why do you think that is? Could it be because the QB is the face of the franchise? It is the same thing as when a company fails. The CEO is the one that gets blamed. Even though it is still a team effort. You catch my drift?

Everyone blamed Hill??? hahaha.... the only people who blamed Hill for that Falcons lost are the SAME 6-10 Hill complainers/Alex fanatics.....and some who just feel the season is lost (5 games into the season ) and would rather give playing time to the other QBs just too see if we need a QB in the 1st round next year.

Everyone blamed Hill?....again

Exactly.

Yeah exactly
never mind the 49ers offense is bottom ranked,Hill is doing just fine and as long as he continues to the 49ers will make the playoffs nooo problem

okey dokey


They will. And it's not because Hill is the most accurate or the most mobile or that he moves the chains. It's because he doesnt create turnovers, something we cannot say for Alex "my hands are too small thats why I fumble" Smith....

Sorry, Hill wins..........

(when the defense is playing dominant )

Lets hope he does next week because he didn't last week

You have to get the ball to your WR's,get first downs and score touchdowns before even thinking about playoffs."Sorry",he's just not getting it done so far and this is fact not something "I made up" or "wish to believe in".The O-line is not good but it's not all on them,Aaron Rodgers has been sacked more times than Hill and he's getting it done.

AZ is right on their heels so Hill needs to pick it up ASAP


(They say Alex Smith has looked sharp throwing passes to Crabtree who in turn is looking sharp,sounds like they're developing a chemistry)
[ Edited by Super5 on Oct 18, 2009 at 9:27 PM ]
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by Mospeed:
Yep, I went back and read from page 29 and I'm seeing a lot of double standards here from Hill fans. One poster asked where Hill's 1700 rusher is as if Gore didn't single handedly win the Seattle game so Hill fans could gloat about how Hill was undefeated at home. I'm really starting to think Hill fans are delusional now that they're saying that more receivers are dropping balls under Hill than they did under Smith. Hill fans are the first to point fingers at Chilo Rachal yet forget completely about what Smith had to deal with behind Kwame Harris.

I really have nothing against Shaun Hill but every time I see him drop back in his squatty stance which probably makes him 5'10 or shorter and throw the ball in an awkward side-arm motion only to have it batted down by a lineman I question how Singletary could think he gives us the best chance at making the playoffs.

Just look at Joe Flacco today against the Vikings. They had the same exact problems we had against them except they found themselves down early in the game. Flacco stood tall in the pocket, stepped up and at the first sign of trouble he found the drop off, even while in the process of being taken to the ground and in the end he had 10 passes completed to Ray Rice for 117 yards and 3 to Heap for 51 and there are Hill fans in this very thread complaining about how Smith drops the ball off too often...

Just makes me sick.

If that makes you sick, you must not remember how Smith played when he was starter.

Most people here don't think Hill is some savior or anything, we just think he's our best option right now. And he is.
I also love how Hill fans always assume Smith fans don't remember what Smith looked like. I never said that Hill made me feel sick, it's all the double standard crap being spewed out.
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by Mospeed:
Yep, I went back and read from page 29 and I'm seeing a lot of double standards here from Hill fans. One poster asked where Hill's 1700 rusher is as if Gore didn't single handedly win the Seattle game so Hill fans could gloat about how Hill was undefeated at home. I'm really starting to think Hill fans are delusional now that they're saying that more receivers are dropping balls under Hill than they did under Smith. Hill fans are the first to point fingers at Chilo Rachal yet forget completely about what Smith had to deal with behind Kwame Harris.

I really have nothing against Shaun Hill but every time I see him drop back in his squatty stance which probably makes him 5'10 or shorter and throw the ball in an awkward side-arm motion only to have it batted down by a lineman I question how Singletary could think he gives us the best chance at making the playoffs.

Just look at Joe Flacco today against the Vikings. They had the same exact problems we had against them except they found themselves down early in the game. Flacco stood tall in the pocket, stepped up and at the first sign of trouble he found the drop off, even while in the process of being taken to the ground and in the end he had 10 passes completed to Ray Rice for 117 yards and 3 to Heap for 51 and there are Hill fans in this very thread complaining about how Smith drops the ball off too often...

Just makes me sick.

If that makes you sick, you must not remember how Smith played when he was starter.

Most people here don't think Hill is some savior or anything, we just think he's our best option right now. And he is.

You must not remember the teams Alex Smith has had to play with.
if hill throws 2 picks i say get the f**k out!!!!!!
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
^^^ Seems to me that we have that guy already. His name is Alex Smith^^^

Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

The team wins, and the QB gets SOME credit, I still see a lot of Hill sucks comments even when the team wins. The team losses and the QB gets THEE credit, depends, how many picks were contributed (that weren't tipped) and fumbles?? If not, plain and simple it was a team loss.

you say that the QB gets SOME credit. Then why is it that Hill has been labeled as just winning football games?

Gore has been winning football games as well, so has Isaac Bruce and Vernon Davis, see where I'm going with this??

I understand your point. But one person thinking logically doesn't make it the normal ideology amongst fans. Look at the loss against the falcons. Everyone blamed Hill. Why do you think that is? Could it be because the QB is the face of the franchise? It is the same thing as when a company fails. The CEO is the one that gets blamed. Even though it is still a team effort. You catch my drift?

Everyone blamed Hill??? hahaha.... the only people who blamed Hill for that Falcons lost are the SAME 6-10 Hill complainers/Alex fanatics.....and some who just feel the season is lost (5 games into the season ) and would rather give playing time to the other QBs just too see if we need a QB in the 1st round next year.

Everyone blamed Hill?....again

Exactly.

Yeah exactly
never mind the 49ers offense is bottom ranked,Hill is doing just fine and as long as he continues to the 49ers will make the playoffs nooo problem

okey dokey


They will. And it's not because Hill is the most accurate or the most mobile or that he moves the chains. It's because he doesnt create turnovers, something we cannot say for Alex "my hands are too small thats why I fumble" Smith....

Sorry, the Defense and Gore wins..........

There fixed.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by Mospeed:
Yep, I went back and read from page 29 and I'm seeing a lot of double standards here from Hill fans. One poster asked where Hill's 1700 rusher is as if Gore didn't single handedly win the Seattle game so Hill fans could gloat about how Hill was undefeated at home. I'm really starting to think Hill fans are delusional now that they're saying that more receivers are dropping balls under Hill than they did under Smith. Hill fans are the first to point fingers at Chilo Rachal yet forget completely about what Smith had to deal with behind Kwame Harris.

I really have nothing against Shaun Hill but every time I see him drop back in his squatty stance which probably makes him 5'10 or shorter and throw the ball in an awkward side-arm motion only to have it batted down by a lineman I question how Singletary could think he gives us the best chance at making the playoffs.

Just look at Joe Flacco today against the Vikings. They had the same exact problems we had against them except they found themselves down early in the game. Flacco stood tall in the pocket, stepped up and at the first sign of trouble he found the drop off, even while in the process of being taken to the ground and in the end he had 10 passes completed to Ray Rice for 117 yards and 3 to Heap for 51 and there are Hill fans in this very thread complaining about how Smith drops the ball off too often...

Just makes me sick.

If that makes you sick, you must not remember how Smith played when he was starter.

Most people here don't think Hill is some savior or anything, we just think he's our best option right now. And he is.

You must not remember the teams Alex Smith has had to play with.

So are you suggesting that since Alex Smith played s**tty with a s**tty team, he should be starter?

I just don't see the logic behind benching Hill for Smith. We've seen what both guys are capable of: Hill has had better stats and wins games, and you want to abandon all of that after one bad game against one of the best teams in the league coming off a bye week.

If Hill has a string of terrible games, then I'd agree with you that maybe we should bench him for Alex; but until then, Shaun is our best option.
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.


We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Who's saying anything like that??

Look at the difference in drop balls, one receiver complains about the pass looking like a punt (I haven't seen that complaint yet) but he can't even catch the ball. Go back and look at the drops from 2006-2007 to this year and compare ball placement.

BTW, where's Hill's 1,700 yard rusher at?? Is it me or did Hill have more rushing yards than our RB this past game?? You simply can't say that this OL is much better than the one that had big Larry Allen in 2006.

And yes I will blame Raye, when he keeps running 1-2 yard rushing calls every 1st and 2nd down, then expect a predictable pass play on 3rd to get us through the game.

Smith had a lot of excellent passes in both years, including one that many remember in the 2007 opener that was dropped in the end zone. Battle's fumble not only cost Smith a TD, it almost cost the 49ers the game. But on top of that, even in games where Smith made a couple not-so-perfect passes, I was not disappointed in the least, because I did NOT expect Smith -- a 21-year old QB starting for the first -- to come and set the world on fire.

The team as a whole -- aside from Gore (who we all know likes Smith) -- offensive players, defense, and coaches included, did not offer a great deal of help to Smith in their contributions to the team's success. I do NOT want to see ANYone try and claim Hill has a worse team that Smith did, just to justify any subpar play by Shaun. If Shaun cannot succeed this year, I will not make excuses for him, nor will I for any other QB.

I did not at all say this year's OL is better. I wasn't comparing statistics or anything or measuring how often each was sacked. My comments were presented situationally, meaning in situations where Hill is sacked or pressured and can't make the throw, the OL seemingly takes all the blame from fans now instead of Hill. Smith gets no such favor. I'm speaking about things that I've been seeing for a loooong time, which stretch far beyond the beginning of this season.

Come on, man. Hill makes some ugly, ugly throws. We all know that. Hill does not throw a pretty ball. I can't agree at all that Hill's "placement" of the ball has been significantly better than Smith's. Such judgments are highly subjective.

If Hill is playing so bad without Gore, why is no one saying "Gore must be carrying Hill. Look at the difference." ? Hill's 1700 yard rusher is on the team. If you were tracking Gore -- after week 2 -- He would've been on pace for almost 1900 yards. But of course, that's skewed, so let's add his 4 yards from week three before getting hurt. Then he's on pace for 1300 yards. Okay, how about we put it in between -- 1600 yards..

Everyone knows Gore is the heart of this team and a big contributor on offense, but please don't downplay any good play by our QB just because of Gore's individual accomplishments.

And now, if Raye is running, does he have less trust in Hill than Turner had in Smith?

So many reasons to believe that this supposed superiority of Hill implied by fans, simply does not exist.

You see we could go round and round with this without EVER coming to an agreement. Sure Smith had a few nice passes here and there, but if you go back and look its always too little too late, in other words when the game is out of reach or when we are behind. Sometimes like Hill, it takes Smith a while to settle down and sometimes he never does, then tends to look indecisive and timid throughout games. Its pretty much the same, with Smith as in Hill, if things aren't clicking on all cylinders as a team Smith more times than not cannot function as you've just seen in Hill this past Sunday.

Why is no one saying Gore is carrying Hill, well, because he isn't, go back and look at the first three games before he was injured. The running game was (is) very inconsistent, and releases no pressure from Hill. Sure Gore had a good game vs. Seattle, but aside from his two 75 yard runs, it was very inconsistent. But nonetheless, Hill does manage to come through with drives every now and then to HELP this team, and yet, I see people even denying that.

Put it this way, Kolohe. The fact that Smith supporters can actually pinpoint each and every accolade that Smith achieved as starter, and also point out each and every "what coulda been's" in Smith's career just goes to show how limited his success really was.

You dont even have to point out why Hill is a better QB, because he has a list of achievements on his resume that dont require defending.


Yeah like being a bench warmer for 4yrs