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Arguments for Alex Smith and Shaun Hill to Start

Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.
  • Kolohe
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  • Posts: 31,696
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Nope, you watching the game right now, no protection, accuracy sucks, has a hard time hitting a receiver downfield, running game stuffed. NO defense is killing NYG right now. Would love to see Manning comeback from 41-17.
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,696
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,696
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I blame Alex. If he would've turned out to be a beast, this wouldn't be a conversation.
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.

We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.
[ Edited by OnTheClock on Oct 18, 2009 at 1:23 PM ]
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.
  • ZRF80
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,551
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.

We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Actually, Smith was a big reason why we were going 3 and out that year. It wasnt necessariloy that he was being pressured, but rather that he opted to throw it out of bounds on 3rd (instead of giving his receivers a chance) or throwing underneath for a 3 yard gain when it was 3rd and long. If you go back to the stats, you'll see that a lot of games Smith's stats would be somewhere along 15/22 169 yards 0 TDs 0 INTs, and you guys would be raving about his accuracy. What you failed to acknowledge is that our offense was anemic, and Smith was a big reason for it. Not to mention that is the same year that Gore broke the team's rushing record.

Not a double standard at all, IMO. This oline is a much different line from that one...
Originally posted by ZRF80:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.

We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Actually, Smith was a big reason why we were going 3 and out that year. It wasnt necessariloy that he was being pressured, but rather that he opted to throw it out of bounds on 3rd (instead of giving his receivers a chance) or throwing underneath for a 3 yard gain when it was 3rd and long. If you go back to the stats, you'll see that a lot of games Smith's stats would be somewhere along 15/22 169 yards 0 TDs 0 INTs, and you guys would be raving about his accuracy. What you failed to acknowledge is that our offense was anemic, and Smith was a big reason for it. Not to mention that is the same year that Gore broke the team's rushing record.

Not a double standard at all, IMO. This oline is a much different line from that one...

Smith didn't play last year!!! JTO was the one throwing the ball away on 3rd and 4th down. Damn Smith haters have so much hatred for Smith they even blame the guy for games he didn't even play in
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

So since Hill has won a lot more than he has lost, I guess he deserves all the credit
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,696
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

Again, give Smith the same courtesy for the games he played, if you're going to do so for Hill. Otherwise, a clear double-standard is created. It's that simple.

Smith was the scapegoat for a 7-9 (could have been in the playoffs with one more win) season under Nolan, his very first complete season as a starter. It wasn't until later that people seemed to begin to only blame Smith, rather than other parts of the team that were failing so miserably.

Receivers drop balls then? It's Smith's fault.
Receivers drop balls now? It's their fault.


We get a 3 and out then (and especially in '07)? It's Smith fault. All because of him.
We get a 3 and out now? It's Raye's fault.

OL Gives poor protection making the QB unable to escape? Smith's fault/pocket presence sucks/he holds the ball too long.
OL Does the same now? OL sucks, it's not Hill's fault. Leave Hill alone. Give him a break.

Smith does well? It's all Gore or the defense, Smith doesn't do anything.
Hill does well? He's sooo impressive. His "skills" are what help Gore succeed, etc.

It's absolutely absurdity.

Fellas.. I like both QBs, but this is exactly what I've seen across this board for the entire past year, basically. Unquestionably. It's freaking clear as day that this is exactly what has gone for quite some time. It's just not right. It's not right at all.

Who's saying anything like that??

Look at the difference in drop balls, one receiver complains about the pass looking like a punt (I haven't seen that complaint yet) but he can't even catch the ball. Go back and look at the drops from 2006-2007 to this year and compare ball placement.

BTW, where's Hill's 1,700 yard rusher at?? Is it me or did Hill have more rushing yards than our RB this past game?? You simply can't say that this OL is much better than the one that had big Larry Allen in 2006.

And yes I will blame Raye, when he keeps running 1-2 yard rushing calls every 1st and 2nd down, then expect a predictable pass play on 3rd to get us through the game.
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hmmph check out Eli Manning down 41-17 with only 100 yards passing.....that guy sucks right.

Again team effort.

The difference betweein Hill and Manning is that Manning has the ability to get the ball to his WR's.

Well that's not that good of comparison, but what he's trying to point out, is that it's not always on the QB, and even great QB's have a bad game once in a while.

I understand the point he is trying to make. But at least compare QB's that are equal in talent.

Why, talent right now, doesn't have no factor, Mannings O-line is getting schooled, defense and out-coached. Manning is out of sync right now with his receivers and hasn't been able to get comfortable.

"Every QB is the same under pressure" - Tom Jackson

Look at the distribution of the passes from Manning compared to Hill. Manning is completing passes to his WR's. Hill was completing passes to his RB's and TE's.

C'mon are you serious??

And you ask why won't this dumbass fued end between fans, but yet you continue to blame Hill for this past loss and can't even agree that it was a team loss and not solely on one player.

Point is to NYG's loss or losing:

Running game stuffed
Defense being owned
O-line beat up

48-20 and you wanna compare talent vs. Hill. In no way am I comparing Hill and Manning, only the comparison in which the teams are poorly operating. Again I would love to see Manning comeback down by this much, since Hill is incapable of doing it.

I'm not blaming just Hill. Hill can't control the points scored on the defense. It was a team loss. But you must take into account the fact that the QB is usually the face of the franchise. The team wins and the QB gets the credit. The team loses and the QB gets the credit.

So since Hill has won a lot more than he has lost, I guess he deserves all the credit

Isn't that what has happened thus far? "Hill just wins games" Is that not what everyone says? You don't see anyone stating that Hill has managed games and allowed the defense to win the games have you? Nope you hear "Hill just wins games" So yes seems how Hill has a better record he gets the credit. So when the TEAM wins a game it is because of Hill. When the TEAM loses it is a TEAM loss.