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Arguments for Alex Smith and Shaun Hill to Start

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
The ATL game.

Josh Morgan: Targets 9 Catches 4
V. Davis: T 12 C 5
I. Bruce: T 4 C 0
Link

Compare those numbers to the other games, you can see a difference.

Not only that, their 3 sacks to our 0, not to mention all the QB pressure's they had.

He'd didn't play good, but there are few people on that offense/defense that played better than him.

But, don't take this into consideration, he retard, with the arm strength of a 2nd grader.

retard? wtf man

he is not talking about you.... he is being sarcastic....there are alot of problems we need to fix first before we change our staring QB.....and drops are some of them, along with the oline.

along with the OL? the OL should be the biggest focus by far
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
The ATL game.

Josh Morgan: Targets 9 Catches 4
V. Davis: T 12 C 5
I. Bruce: T 4 C 0
Link

Compare those numbers to the other games, you can see a difference.

Not only that, their 3 sacks to our 0, not to mention all the QB pressure's they had.

He'd didn't play good, but there are few people on that offense/defense that played better than him.

But, don't take this into consideration, he retard, with the arm strength of a 2nd grader.

retard? wtf man

he is not talking about you.... he is being sarcastic....there are alot of problems we need to fix first before we change our staring QB.....and drops are some of them, along with the oline.

along with the OL? the OL should be the biggest focus by far

true, but we can't expect them to be perfect....we have to work with what we have, for now...maybe a change at RG will help and the new group will work together....

but at the same, we need our receivers....(WRs, TEs, and RBs) to catch easy passes that would get us 1st downs......so far our WRs and RBs have dropped crucial 1st down passes......by getting a consistent passing game going, the defense would have to back off alittle bit...and that would help the online.... We should be able to make them pay EVERYTIME they blitz...

I know Memphis says Vernon would have to be 6inches tall to be able to of caught those passes Shaun threw on the hot reads, when the Falcons were blitzing...but if you watch the replay you can see the Vernon hesitated to take the inside of the defender and if he did cut in, he would have been hit in stride on the #s.... I remember 2 passes for sure that would have been big plays and Atlanta was blitzing up the middle and that is where Vernon would have been if he cut in....and there would have been lots of running space.

and of course Shaun would have to continue to do his part too
[ Edited by Afrikan on Oct 17, 2009 at 9:50 PM ]
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
The ATL game.

Josh Morgan: Targets 9 Catches 4
V. Davis: T 12 C 5
I. Bruce: T 4 C 0
Link

Compare those numbers to the other games, you can see a difference.

Not only that, their 3 sacks to our 0, not to mention all the QB pressure's they had.

He'd didn't play good, but there are few people on that offense/defense that played better than him.

But, don't take this into consideration, he retard, with the arm strength of a 2nd grader.

retard? wtf man

he is not talking about you.... he is being sarcastic....there are alot of problems we need to fix first before we change our staring QB.....and drops are some of them, along with the oline.

along with the OL? the OL should be the biggest focus by far

true, but we can't expect them to be perfect....we have to work with what we have, for now...maybe a change at RG will help and the new group will work together....

but at the same, we need our receivers....(WRs, TEs, and RBs) to catch easy passes that would get us 1st downs......so far our WRs and RBs have dropped crucial 1st down passes......by getting a consistent passing game going, the defense would have to back off alittle bit...and that would help the online.... We should be able to make them pay EVERYTIME they blitz...

I know Memphis says Vernon would have to be 6inches tall to be able to of caught those passes Shaun threw on the hot reads, when the Falcons were blitzing...but if you watch the replay you can see the Vernon hesitated to take the inside of the defender and if he did cut in, he would have been hit in stride on the #s.... I remember 2 passes for sure that would have been big plays and Atlanta was blitzing up the middle and that is where Vernon would have been if he cut in....and there would have been lots of running space.

i agree we can't expect them to be perfect but we can expect them not to be the worst OL in the league spare maybe a couple teams. bottom line is our G's really really suck and our RT situation isn't that good either.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????


If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.


Audible
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????


If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.


Audible

look, dude....I know Memphis likes to say that Shaun has the ability to audible...but that is not entirely true.... Shaun is NOT allowed to audible out of a running play......he stated this after the Arizona game when asked about why we kept running at their dline when it was obvious they were stacking the line. I tried to digg up the interview but I can't find video of it......but you can google it and you will find that I'm not the only one who heard it....I'm sure one of us can ask Matt M. about this topic and he will back it up.....

so when Shaun can't convert 3rd and something, because we chose to run the ball....that is not entirely his fault......and of course this coupled with drops on 3rd downs that would have resulted in 1st downs (some from Coffee, some from Bruce, and others) all have an affect on why our 3rd down conversion rates are so low.....and this is why you don't hear our coaches even entertaining the idea of benching him....they are there, they know what is going on.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????


If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.


Audible

look, dude....I know Memphis likes to say that Shaun has the ability to audible...but that is not entirely true.... Shaun is NOT allowed to audible out of a running play......he stated this after the Arizona game when asked about why we kept running at their dline when it was obvious they were stacking the line. I tried to digg up the interview but I can't find video of it......but you can google it and you will find that I'm not the only one who heard it....I'm sure one of us can ask Matt M. about this topic and he will back it up.....

so when Shaun can't convert 3rd and something, because we chose to run the ball....that is not entirely his fault......and of course this coupled with drops on 3rd downs that would have resulted in 1st downs (some from Coffee, some from Bruce, and others) all have an affect on why our 3rd down conversion rates are so low.....and this is why you don't hear our coaches even entertaining the idea of benching him....they are there, they know what is going on.

Shaun Hillusions...

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by B650:
Originally posted by Gavintech:
I wouldn't say that. As much as I want Hill to be benched, if he plays well (better than in any game this season so far) in those games but the team still loses, he might deserve to keep the starting job.

Conversely if he continues to look like he has all year and play poorly he should be benched even if THE TEAM wins both of those games. They're going to have to look at the big picture and if all he's has are 2-4 good quarters over 7 games a change needs to be made regardless of record.

The 2000 Ravens were 5-1 at one point, beat a hapless divisional foe 37-0 in week 4 (sound familiar?), and went on to win the next two games without the offense scoring a TD. This might not be the best example because they lost the next three games before switching to Trent Dilfer for the rest of the season and the superbowl but A.) I don't want to lose three in a row, & B.) there is no way they make the Superbowl, even with that D, without making that switch at QB.

I'm not going to say we're going to win the SB if we make a change under center right now but the similarities are there.

-They won games early on with great D and special teams
-They did not have a clear starting QB coming out of preseason
-They got a decent running game going, relying on a rookie and a 4 year vet
-Their leading receiver was a Tight End
-The star player on that team was a young LB that would dominate games
-They had an accurate FG kicker
-They shut out a bad team in division 37-0 in week 4 without Banks playing all that well (like we did 35-0 in week 4 without Shaun Hill playing well)

That team was 5-1 after 6 games but was 5-4 after 9. Most notably because their QB was not creating 1st downs or scoring TDs. They made a switch at QB, to TRENT DILFER of all people, and won out the rest of the season and the Super Bowl. There are enough other similarities there, why not see what can be done? Once you do the intellectually honest thing and admit to yourself that Shaun Hill has not played one AVE-GOOD game through more than a quarter of the season so far it's a pretty easy call to make.

I see your point, but at the same time, this isn't the 2000 Ravens. In order to win with a QB like Trent Dilfer, or Shaun Hill, or let's call him Shaun Dilfer from now on, you have to have an INCREDIBLE defense, offensive line, defensive line, running backs, and special teams. Do we? I think we know the answer to that. So, if we don't have any of this, what's the easiest way to improve all of them without getting 10 new players to fix them all? Simple, the QB position. Shaun Dilfer shouldn't be starting on this team because we don't have talent to start a game-manager QB right now. That's the bottom line. Imagine if the Packers had Shaun Dilfer. They'd be 0-5. Since they have Aaron Rodgers, they'll hang around and compete for a playoff spot. Our team was pretty bad in 1998 to be honest, but we still made the playoffs. We had no defense at all, bad special teams, and a horrible offensive line. But guess what? We had Steve Young to make up for it.

The 2000 Ravens were not supposed to win anything either. Also, Dilfer played much better down the stretch that season than Hill has played this season. My point is, a change has got to be made, regardless of record, should Hill have even one more game like ANY of the first five games. Not one of them has been good enough, win or no win.

and that is not going to happen....simply put. I know some feel Shaun has played horrible in each of the previous games or what ever.....but besides the Falcons game.... he has played EXACTLY how Singletary has wanted him to play....hand the ball off....and take high percentage short and intermediate throws and keep the clock moving....and don't take a chance on the deep throw, unless we need to. And it has worked in Sing's favor for more than a couple of games....

do I agree with this philosophy.....no I don't.... but don't get me wrong, I don't want Hill to throw deep passes if it is not necessary "just to get a big play".....but what I do want is for us to pass more on early downs.....as well as pass out of situations where we still have a RB in the backfield...more often then not, I see us coming out in formations with our RB motioning out of the backfield....I say leave him back there so the "threat" of the run is always there.....our Oline is not good enough right now to where we make it 100% obvious that we are going to pass.

So if he has been making the wrong reads and is inaccurate on those throws Singltary is cool with that? That's exactly how he wants him to play?
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I know Memphis says Vernon would have to be 6inches tall to be able to of caught those passes Shaun threw on the hot reads, when the Falcons were blitzing...but if you watch the replay you can see the Vernon hesitated to take the inside of the defender and if he did cut in, he would have been hit in stride on the #s.... I remember 2 passes for sure that would have been big plays and Atlanta was blitzing up the middle and that is where Vernon would have been if he cut in....and there would have been lots of running space.

You do realize that one of those passes was not even going to Vernon, right?
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I know Memphis says Vernon would have to be 6inches tall to be able to of caught those passes Shaun threw on the hot reads, when the Falcons were blitzing...but if you watch the replay you can see the Vernon hesitated to take the inside of the defender and if he did cut in, he would have been hit in stride on the #s.... I remember 2 passes for sure that would have been big plays and Atlanta was blitzing up the middle and that is where Vernon would have been if he cut in....and there would have been lots of running space.

You do realize that one of those passes was not even going to Vernon, right?

are you talking about the one that was behind Vernon, the one intended for Bruce?

also about this..
Quote:
So if he has been making the wrong reads and is inaccurate on those throws Singltary is cool with that? That's exactly how he wants him to play?

how often does Shaun make the wrong reads?

I would believe it is all about consistency....if Shaun was consistently making the wrong reads and was consistently not accurate.....then, no..... Singletary would not be cool with that, and would probably choke him before sitting him down.
[ Edited by Afrikan on Oct 18, 2009 at 1:00 AM ]
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????


If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.


Audible

look, dude....I know Memphis likes to say that Shaun has the ability to audible...but that is not entirely true.... Shaun is NOT allowed to audible out of a running play......he stated this after the Arizona game when asked about why we kept running at their dline when it was obvious they were stacking the line. I tried to digg up the interview but I can't find video of it......but you can google it and you will find that I'm not the only one who heard it....I'm sure one of us can ask Matt M. about this topic and he will back it up.....

so when Shaun can't convert 3rd and something, because we chose to run the ball....that is not entirely his fault......and of course this coupled with drops on 3rd downs that would have resulted in 1st downs (some from Coffee, some from Bruce, and others) all have an affect on why our 3rd down conversion rates are so low.....and this is why you don't hear our coaches even entertaining the idea of benching him....they are there, they know what is going on.

This issue has obviously become really emotional for a lot of people. I just don't get how Hill is now afforded all of the excuses that Smith is denied.

I admire what Hill has done but ultimately I think his ceiling is too low to be the future of this team beyond this year. Smith showed some potential prior to his injury. I know this is very debatable and it is just my opinion. But if this season turns south, then the Niners have to see what they have in Smith. The organization wouldn't have kept him if they didn't want to get another look. Maybe Smith will turn out to be the bust that so many have deemed him to be. So be it. It will be time to move on then. Maybe then it would be time to give Davis a look. The Niners need to know what they must do at quarterback (especially since they have two firsts next year) next year. That means they need to know what they have now.

Maybe the Atlanta game was an abberation. I also agree that a lot of factors beyond Hill are contributing to the poor play of the offense. But the same thing can be said for the time Smith was in there. If he comes back strong then I am fine with him keeping the job. He has earned it. But if that game proves not to be an abberation then there is no point in continuing forward with him. It won't all be his fault but ultimately the organization has to decide whether or not he could be the kind of quarterback who could lead us out of the desert. If not, we need to see what else we have and we need to see it this year. That will have a big impact on next years draft.
  • B650
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 4,205
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????


If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.


Audible

look, dude....I know Memphis likes to say that Shaun has the ability to audible...but that is not entirely true.... Shaun is NOT allowed to audible out of a running play......he stated this after the Arizona game when asked about why we kept running at their dline when it was obvious they were stacking the line. I tried to digg up the interview but I can't find video of it......but you can google it and you will find that I'm not the only one who heard it....I'm sure one of us can ask Matt M. about this topic and he will back it up.....

so when Shaun can't convert 3rd and something, because we chose to run the ball....that is not entirely his fault......and of course this coupled with drops on 3rd downs that would have resulted in 1st downs (some from Coffee, some from Bruce, and others) all have an affect on why our 3rd down conversion rates are so low.....and this is why you don't hear our coaches even entertaining the idea of benching him....they are there, they know what is going on.

This issue has obviously become really emotional for a lot of people. I just don't get how Hill is now afforded all of the excuses that Smith is denied.

I admire what Hill has done but ultimately I think his ceiling is too low to be the future of this team beyond this year. Smith showed some potential prior to his injury. I know this is very debatable and it is just my opinion. But if this season turns south, then the Niners have to see what they have in Smith. The organization wouldn't have kept him if they didn't want to get another look. Maybe Smith will turn out to be the bust that so many have deemed him to be. So be it. It will be time to move on then. Maybe then it would be time to give Davis a look. The Niners need to know what they must do at quarterback (especially since they have two firsts next year) next year. That means they need to know what they have now.

Maybe the Atlanta game was an abberation. I also agree that a lot of factors beyond Hill are contributing to the poor play of the offense. But the same thing can be said for the time Smith was in there. If he comes back strong then I am fine with him keeping the job. He has earned it. But if that game proves not to be an abberation then there is no point in continuing forward with him. It won't all be his fault but ultimately the organization has to decide whether or not he could be the kind of quarterback who could lead us out of the desert. If not, we need to see what else we have and we need to see it this year. That will have a big impact on next years draft.

Well said.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????


If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.


Audible

look, dude....I know Memphis likes to say that Shaun has the ability to audible...but that is not entirely true.... Shaun is NOT allowed to audible out of a running play......he stated this after the Arizona game when asked about why we kept running at their dline when it was obvious they were stacking the line. I tried to digg up the interview but I can't find video of it......but you can google it and you will find that I'm not the only one who heard it....I'm sure one of us can ask Matt M. about this topic and he will back it up.....

so when Shaun can't convert 3rd and something, because we chose to run the ball....that is not entirely his fault......and of course this coupled with drops on 3rd downs that would have resulted in 1st downs (some from Coffee, some from Bruce, and others) all have an affect on why our 3rd down conversion rates are so low.....and this is why you don't hear our coaches even entertaining the idea of benching him....they are there, they know what is going on.



Not gonna argue with you about this, but I can provide a link that completely refutes what you are claiming. If you have issues with me stating the truth, take it up with Shaun Hill.


From Shaun Hill's own mouth.


I have provided you with the facts, believe what you wish. What I said about Hill having freedom to audible is clearly stated in this article by Hill himself. I did not make anything up, I just researched before I posted...some people do.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????


If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.


Audible

look, dude....I know Memphis likes to say that Shaun has the ability to audible...but that is not entirely true.... Shaun is NOT allowed to audible out of a running play......he stated this after the Arizona game when asked about why we kept running at their dline when it was obvious they were stacking the line. I tried to digg up the interview but I can't find video of it......but you can google it and you will find that I'm not the only one who heard it....I'm sure one of us can ask Matt M. about this topic and he will back it up.....

so when Shaun can't convert 3rd and something, because we chose to run the ball....that is not entirely his fault......and of course this coupled with drops on 3rd downs that would have resulted in 1st downs (some from Coffee, some from Bruce, and others) all have an affect on why our 3rd down conversion rates are so low.....and this is why you don't hear our coaches even entertaining the idea of benching him....they are there, they know what is going on.



Not gonna argue with you about this, but I can provide a link that completely refutes what you are claiming. If you have issues with me stating the truth, take it up with Shaun Hill.


From Shaun Hill's own mouth.


I have provided you with the facts, believe what you wish. What I said about Hill having freedom to audible is clearly stated in this article by Hill himself. I did not make anything up, I just researched before I posted...some people do.

I never said you made that up....and when you first started to mention that interview awhile back I brought up the notion that Raye might be handling things different now.....and that is apparently the case.

I remember when Hill first said those words...and that was what really got me excited for the season....because I believe in Shaun's ability to read a defense.

The only reason I brought up your name is because you like mention this specific interview on a number of occasions.....but that was from way back during the OTAs. and again, apparently now that is not the case.
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????


If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.


Audible

look, dude....I know Memphis likes to say that Shaun has the ability to audible...but that is not entirely true.... Shaun is NOT allowed to audible out of a running play......he stated this after the Arizona game when asked about why we kept running at their dline when it was obvious they were stacking the line. I tried to digg up the interview but I can't find video of it......but you can google it and you will find that I'm not the only one who heard it....I'm sure one of us can ask Matt M. about this topic and he will back it up.....

so when Shaun can't convert 3rd and something, because we chose to run the ball....that is not entirely his fault......and of course this coupled with drops on 3rd downs that would have resulted in 1st downs (some from Coffee, some from Bruce, and others) all have an affect on why our 3rd down conversion rates are so low.....and this is why you don't hear our coaches even entertaining the idea of benching him....they are there, they know what is going on.



Not gonna argue with you about this, but I can provide a link that completely refutes what you are claiming. If you have issues with me stating the truth, take it up with Shaun Hill.


From Shaun Hill's own mouth.


I have provided you with the facts, believe what you wish. What I said about Hill having freedom to audible is clearly stated in this article by Hill himself. I did not make anything up, I just researched before I posted...some people do.

I never said you made that up....and when you first started to mention that interview awhile back I brought up the notion that Raye might be handling things different now.....and that is apparently the case.

I remember when Hill first said those words...and that was what really got me excited for the season....because I believe in Shaun's ability to read a defense.

The only reason I brought up your name is because you like mention this specific interview on a number of occasions.....but that was from way back during the OTAs. and again, apparently now that is not the case.

Why would they take away his audibles my friend? I see no reason for them to limit his options, they need him to succeed as much as we want him to.
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????


If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.


Audible

look, dude....I know Memphis likes to say that Shaun has the ability to audible...but that is not entirely true.... Shaun is NOT allowed to audible out of a running play......he stated this after the Arizona game when asked about why we kept running at their dline when it was obvious they were stacking the line. I tried to digg up the interview but I can't find video of it......but you can google it and you will find that I'm not the only one who heard it....I'm sure one of us can ask Matt M. about this topic and he will back it up.....

so when Shaun can't convert 3rd and something, because we chose to run the ball....that is not entirely his fault......and of course this coupled with drops on 3rd downs that would have resulted in 1st downs (some from Coffee, some from Bruce, and others) all have an affect on why our 3rd down conversion rates are so low.....and this is why you don't hear our coaches even entertaining the idea of benching him....they are there, they know what is going on.

This issue has obviously become really emotional for a lot of people. I just don't get how Hill is now afforded all of the excuses that Smith is denied.

I admire what Hill has done but ultimately I think his ceiling is too low to be the future of this team beyond this year. Smith showed some potential prior to his injury. I know this is very debatable and it is just my opinion. But if this season turns south, then the Niners have to see what they have in Smith. The organization wouldn't have kept him if they didn't want to get another look. Maybe Smith will turn out to be the bust that so many have deemed him to be. So be it. It will be time to move on then. Maybe then it would be time to give Davis a look. The Niners need to know what they must do at quarterback (especially since they have two firsts next year) next year. That means they need to know what they have now.

Maybe the Atlanta game was an abberation. I also agree that a lot of factors beyond Hill are contributing to the poor play of the offense. But the same thing can be said for the time Smith was in there. If he comes back strong then I am fine with him keeping the job. He has earned it. But if that game proves not to be an abberation then there is no point in continuing forward with him. It won't all be his fault but ultimately the organization has to decide whether or not he could be the kind of quarterback who could lead us out of the desert. If not, we need to see what else we have and we need to see it this year. That will have a big impact on next years draft.


Great post.