Arguments for Alex Smith and Shaun Hill to Start | Page 27

MadDog49er · 2009-06-25T06:03:44-07:00

The most difficult decision of the Mike Singletary administration will soon have to be made: Who to start at QB. In an attempt to be fair to both parties, I present arguments for both Alex Smith and Shaun Hill. According to Matt Barrows, Alex Smith has looked healthier, stronger, more accurate this past month than in the previous two years. He was the unquestioned starting quarterback two years ago before his shoulder injury, and was a player who seemed to have a strong upside to his game. Did his shoulder injury two years ago affect his ability to play at a high level? Surely. The question is: How much? Smith presents the best long-term QB answer for the Niners, when stacked against Hill. Alex is four years younger, possesses a stronger arm, and has greater mobility in and out of the pocket. Supporters of Smith will state that the Niners' OL has never given Alex the chance to develop his game, as he has been running for his life the moment he stood behind the center. Critics will say that: He simply doesn't get it; although intelligent, he simply has not been able to transition from the shotgun to playing under the center; that he lacks the characteristic of being a strong leader. Critics will argue that he slumps his head too much, isn't a guy who can rally the team effectively, doesn't inspire confidence. All of these statements would be true to some degree. Even the most strident Smith fans would have to admit that these are specific areas of improvement that must happen for Smith to have a starting role in this league. Shaun Hill has been the super-sub the previous two seasons. His high winning percentage, and strong QB rating in 2008, point to a guy as a winner. He is a terrific leader, and even though he doesn't have a dynamic arm, he gets the ball in most places at most times (although it surely isn't pretty). He is consistent, and does a solid job at limiting turnovers in most games. Hill is a solid game manager. Players rally behind him, more so than Smith. Hill has the necessary confidence that Smith has lacked at times. Finally, while Smith has struggled to adjust to four OC's in four years (as predicted last season, the 2009 season would make for a fifth OC), Hill seems to assimilate each offense with greater ease. Critics will state that he has limited upside to his game due to sub-standard arm strength, that he cannot make a number of throws on the field, that he doesn't have the ability to stretch the field. They will state that while Hill must be a game manager to win, Smith can post points on the board, that the offense can be more dynamic. The Niners have a tough call. Outside of the first month of his rookie season, Smith has never come off the bench in his career, and this could be a good thing or bad thing. In one sense, it might take the pressure off of him to produce right away. However, it might also hurt his confidence to be a backup to a NFL journeyman QB. The momentum this spring has been with Smith. How would he react to not getting the starting role? On the flip side, Hill has been outstanding in a backup role. The team would have tremendous confidence in Hill if Smith went down with an injury in a game, or simply was not producing. However, he has never gone into a season as the starter, and the expectations for greater offensive production may not match his skill set. Entering the season as a starter is a far different animal than coming off the bench. And yet, when Hill plays, the Niners win. Would that change if he started the season at QB, instead of a relief pitcher? In the end, the Niners will have to answer the question: Which QB gives us a better chance to win? And the answer could be based upon their thoughts on the offensive line and defense. If the Niners have confidence that they will be able to run the ball efffectively, limit the QB to 20-25 throws a game, and have a studly defense, Shaun Hill would appear to be the better option. However, if the Niners really want to open up the offense in 2009, and feel like the defense will not be strong enough to carry the team this season, Smith may be the better option. There will certainly be more than 1,000 Smith-Hill/Hill-Smith threads once training camp emerges, and the daily drama will surely stoke fires. Ultimately, the team needs to strongly endorse one guy as the starter, or else risk a tough year. Teams with training camp battles at QB, and uncertainty entering the season, struggle to win games, and generally have sub-500 seasons. The goal should be to announce the QB as soon as possible so that everyone is on the same page. Bold 2010 Prediction: There will not be a QB controversy for the Niners in 2010. Either Hill will show that he is a starter in this league, or not. Smith will show that he is a stable franchise QB to build a team around. Or, the Niners will target a QB in free agency or the draft, to start right away. Cheers. [ Edited by MadDog49er on Jun 25, 2009 at 09:30:42 ]

Oct 17, 2009 at 8:07 PM

#391

backontop
Veteran
Posts: 14,346

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by backontop:
Originally posted by dirtysouthniner:
Originally posted by Ceadderman:
The only argument that matters is why protect the ball if you're only determined to give it back in 4 plays without scoring a single point anyway?

I can't believe that people are so damn worried about ball control when we can't control the thing with our lame duck QB. Pun indeed intended.

~Ceadder

You could be right. But Singletary cares more about turnovers than anything else. It is the curse of having a defensive minded coach. The only time Singletary considered benching Hill last year was after he threw a couple of interceptions. I expect Hill will continue to take sacks instead of taking chances. And I expect Singletary to continue to thank Hill for it.

Isn't punting the ball considered a turn over technically? I mean you are giving the other teams offense the ball back. So does it really matter if it is an INT or a punt. I understand that you can attemtp to pin then inside the 5 yard line. But there is always the chance for a big return(especially this year) that will negate any long punt.

int u always have a better chance of returning it for a TD also always get better field position

With our special teams play this year is there really a difference? There have been a few returns for TD's that have been called back so far. It is only a matter of time till there are a few that are let go with no flags on the field.

Oct 17, 2009 at 8:14 PM

#392

BHulman
Veteran
Posts: 4,338

Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by brhokla:
I just want the guy with the better arm playing cause we need it. Hill looks slow, passes look horrible and it's time now for a change.

Ya!! Big arms = wins!! Doesn't everyone know that?!?

Well, it is not working so well for the Raiders right now. But it sure makes it a lot easier for the opposing defense when they have little fear of the vertical game.

Oct 17, 2009 at 8:30 PM

#393

YourHuckleberry
Member
Posts: 5,107

Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by brhokla:
I just want the guy with the better arm playing cause we need it. Hill looks slow, passes look horrible and it's time now for a change.

Ya!! Big arms = wins!! Doesn't everyone know that?!?

Well, it is not working so well for the Raiders right now. But it sure makes it a lot easier for the opposing defense when they have little fear of the vertical game.

I'll take accuracy over a big arm.

Oct 17, 2009 at 8:35 PM

#394

wadjay
Veteran
Posts: 401

Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by brhokla:
I just want the guy with the better arm playing cause we need it. Hill looks slow, passes look horrible and it's time now for a change.

Ya!! Big arms = wins!! Doesn't everyone know that?!?

Well, it is not working so well for the Raiders right now. But it sure makes it a lot easier for the opposing defense when they have little fear of the vertical game.

I'll take accuracy over a big arm.

Agreed. Unfortunately, right now Shaun has neither.

Oct 17, 2009 at 8:45 PM

#395

YourHuckleberry
Member
Posts: 5,107

Originally posted by wadjay:
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by BHulman:
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
Originally posted by brhokla:
I just want the guy with the better arm playing cause we need it. Hill looks slow, passes look horrible and it's time now for a change.

Ya!! Big arms = wins!! Doesn't everyone know that?!?

Well, it is not working so well for the Raiders right now. But it sure makes it a lot easier for the opposing defense when they have little fear of the vertical game.

I'll take accuracy over a big arm.

Agreed. Unfortunately, right now Shaun has neither.

You kidding me? He's been good for us so far.

We just had one bad game, and people are s**tting their pants.

Oct 17, 2009 at 9:06 PM

#396

matt49er
Veteran
Posts: 7,460

Hill won the job in TC he's had one bad game, we should be 4-1 to change the qb now is to make a rookie HC douche bad move.

Oct 17, 2009 at 9:19 PM

#397

GoreGoreGore
10HourChicken
Posts: 61,538

The ATL game.

Josh Morgan: Targets 9 Catches 4
V. Davis: T 12 C 5
I. Bruce: T 4 C 0
Link

Compare those numbers to the other games, you can see a difference.

Not only that, their 3 sacks to our 0, not to mention all the QB pressure's they had.

He didn't play good, but there are few people on that offense/defense that played better than him.

But, don't take this into consideration, he's a retard (Hill), with the arm strength of a 2nd grader.

[ Edited by TheG0RE49er on Oct 17, 2009 at 9:36 PM ]

Oct 17, 2009 at 9:22 PM

#398

matt49er
Veteran
Posts: 7,460

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
The ATL game.

Josh Morgan: Targets 9 Catches 4
V. Davis: T 12 C 5
I. Bruce: T 4 C 0
Link

Compare those numbers to the other games, you can see a difference.

Not only that, their 3 sacks to our 0, not to mention all the QB pressure's they had.

He'd didn't play good, but there are few people on that offense/defense that played better than him.

But, don't take this into consideration, he retard, with the arm strength of a 2nd grader.

retard? wtf man

Oct 17, 2009 at 9:26 PM

#399

Afrikan
Veteran
Posts: 23,587

Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
The ATL game.

Josh Morgan: Targets 9 Catches 4
V. Davis: T 12 C 5
I. Bruce: T 4 C 0
Link

Compare those numbers to the other games, you can see a difference.

Not only that, their 3 sacks to our 0, not to mention all the QB pressure's they had.

He'd didn't play good, but there are few people on that offense/defense that played better than him.

But, don't take this into consideration, he retard, with the arm strength of a 2nd grader.

retard? wtf man

he is not talking about you.... he is being sarcastic....there are alot of problems we need to fix first before we change our staring QB.....and drops are some of them, along with the oline.

Oct 17, 2009 at 9:28 PM

#400

matt49er
Veteran
Posts: 7,460

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
The ATL game.

Josh Morgan: Targets 9 Catches 4
V. Davis: T 12 C 5
I. Bruce: T 4 C 0
Link

Compare those numbers to the other games, you can see a difference.

Not only that, their 3 sacks to our 0, not to mention all the QB pressure's they had.

He'd didn't play good, but there are few people on that offense/defense that played better than him.

But, don't take this into consideration, he retard, with the arm strength of a 2nd grader.

retard? wtf man

he is not talking about you.... he is being sarcastic....there are alot of problems we need to fix first before we change our staring QB.....and drops are some of them, along with the oline.

along with the OL? the OL should be the biggest focus by far

Oct 17, 2009 at 9:49 PM

#401

Afrikan
Veteran
Posts: 23,587

Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
The ATL game.

Josh Morgan: Targets 9 Catches 4
V. Davis: T 12 C 5
I. Bruce: T 4 C 0
Link

Compare those numbers to the other games, you can see a difference.

Not only that, their 3 sacks to our 0, not to mention all the QB pressure's they had.

He'd didn't play good, but there are few people on that offense/defense that played better than him.

But, don't take this into consideration, he retard, with the arm strength of a 2nd grader.

retard? wtf man

he is not talking about you.... he is being sarcastic....there are alot of problems we need to fix first before we change our staring QB.....and drops are some of them, along with the oline.

along with the OL? the OL should be the biggest focus by far

true, but we can't expect them to be perfect....we have to work with what we have, for now...maybe a change at RG will help and the new group will work together....

but at the same, we need our receivers....(WRs, TEs, and RBs) to catch easy passes that would get us 1st downs......so far our WRs and RBs have dropped crucial 1st down passes......by getting a consistent passing game going, the defense would have to back off alittle bit...and that would help the online.... We should be able to make them pay EVERYTIME they blitz...

I know Memphis says Vernon would have to be 6inches tall to be able to of caught those passes Shaun threw on the hot reads, when the Falcons were blitzing...but if you watch the replay you can see the Vernon hesitated to take the inside of the defender and if he did cut in, he would have been hit in stride on the #s.... I remember 2 passes for sure that would have been big plays and Atlanta was blitzing up the middle and that is where Vernon would have been if he cut in....and there would have been lots of running space.

and of course Shaun would have to continue to do his part too

[ Edited by Afrikan on Oct 17, 2009 at 9:50 PM ]

Oct 17, 2009 at 9:50 PM

#402

matt49er
Veteran
Posts: 7,460

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
The ATL game.

Josh Morgan: Targets 9 Catches 4
V. Davis: T 12 C 5
I. Bruce: T 4 C 0
Link

Compare those numbers to the other games, you can see a difference.

Not only that, their 3 sacks to our 0, not to mention all the QB pressure's they had.

He'd didn't play good, but there are few people on that offense/defense that played better than him.

But, don't take this into consideration, he retard, with the arm strength of a 2nd grader.

retard? wtf man

he is not talking about you.... he is being sarcastic....there are alot of problems we need to fix first before we change our staring QB.....and drops are some of them, along with the oline.

along with the OL? the OL should be the biggest focus by far

true, but we can't expect them to be perfect....we have to work with what we have, for now...maybe a change at RG will help and the new group will work together....

but at the same, we need our receivers....(WRs, TEs, and RBs) to catch easy passes that would get us 1st downs......so far our WRs and RBs have dropped crucial 1st down passes......by getting a consistent passing game going, the defense would have to back off alittle bit...and that would help the online.... We should be able to make them pay EVERYTIME they blitz...

I know Memphis says Vernon would have to be 6inches tall to be able to of caught those passes Shaun threw on the hot reads, when the Falcons were blitzing...but if you watch the replay you can see the Vernon hesitated to take the inside of the defender and if he did cut in, he would have been hit in stride on the #s.... I remember 2 passes for sure that would have been big plays and Atlanta was blitzing up the middle and that is where Vernon would have been if he cut in....and there would have been lots of running space.

i agree we can't expect them to be perfect but we can expect them not to be the worst OL in the league spare maybe a couple teams. bottom line is our G's really really suck and our RT situation isn't that good either.

Oct 17, 2009 at 10:52 PM

#403

Super5
Veteran
Posts: 1,513

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????

If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.

Audible

Oct 17, 2009 at 11:34 PM

#404

Afrikan
Veteran
Posts: 23,587

Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????

If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.

Audible

look, dude....I know Memphis likes to say that Shaun has the ability to audible...but that is not entirely true.... Shaun is NOT allowed to audible out of a running play......he stated this after the Arizona game when asked about why we kept running at their dline when it was obvious they were stacking the line. I tried to digg up the interview but I can't find video of it......but you can google it and you will find that I'm not the only one who heard it....I'm sure one of us can ask Matt M. about this topic and he will back it up.....

so when Shaun can't convert 3rd and something, because we chose to run the ball....that is not entirely his fault......and of course this coupled with drops on 3rd downs that would have resulted in 1st downs (some from Coffee, some from Bruce, and others) all have an affect on why our 3rd down conversion rates are so low.....and this is why you don't hear our coaches even entertaining the idea of benching him....they are there, they know what is going on.

Oct 18, 2009 at 12:00 AM

#405

WillistheWall
Veteran
Posts: 22,848

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
Originally posted by Super5:
Originally posted by Afrikan:
a couple of more LIES some of these posters try to spew..... it is hilarious...

I read someone posted that if "[b]Hill's Offense continues to struggle on third down bla bla bla" Hill's offense???? THIS IS RAYE'S OFFENSE!!!! YOU DON'T KNOW WTF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, STOP POSTING!
[/b]
also we have another LAIR who is trying to give off the impression that our Home Crowd Booed Hill off the field, again...

EVERYONE GOT BOOED THAT DAY!! The Defense got Booed, The Offense got Booed, the dropped passes caused Boos....the dumb moves made by Morgan and Bly caused Boos....HILL getting sacked in 2 seconds caused boos....

STOP SPREADING OUT BS!

but continue the because Shaun Hill is the 49er starter....where as fans who have any sense (like some in this thread) know that our problem starts first and foremost at the most important area for a football team, the trenches.

I can't wait till I see my 49er starting QB play in 2 weeks....and root my team on....as well as Root on my backup QB who is doing a fine, by assisting his Starting QB, Shaun Hill, at getting ready for opposing defenses....

Great Job Shaun..... and Great Job Alex....

So I don't know WTF I'm talking about??

Let me dumb down my statement for those who no comprende-SHAUN HILL RUNS JIMMY RAYE'S OFFENSE(HE IS THE QB)and is not doing a very good job at it.The NFL stats don't lie so go on that.The problem starts in the trenches with Hill at QB but not when Smith is at QB right????

If no improvement soon there needs to be a change(Smith or Davis) because

I WANT WINNERS

You rant SO MUCH you're all twisted up in your own BS.So you live your life on the zone so what that's your trip,doesn't mean you run this zone so don't tell me or anybody else to stop posting!

this is what you posted....and you bolded "Hill's offense".
"If Hill's offense continues to lead the NFL in 3 and outs without improvement and if there is no change,THAT will be giving up on the season"

I'm just going to leave it at.....Shaun does not make the calls on third down to run the ball....Shaun does not make calls for plays the are ran 2-3 yards short of the first down.... this is the difference with Raye and Martz....even if we were at 3rd 12, Martz would call a play that would get us 12-15 yards.....and *gasp* Shaun Hill would complete it....with the same personal Bruce and company, although Jason Hill was out there making these plays as well.....

So to say that it is Hill's offense that is holding us back from converting 3rd downs...well actually it is Raye's offense....he decides what we should do..... now if Shaun is not following Rayes play calls and has been checking down all this time, then I believe Raye would have got on Shaun's case and I wouldn't be surprised if he benched him.

As far as me spending too much time on here...... I think you're right....at the end last week's game, when I started seeing all these threads popping up about benching the Starting QB and the reasons why....I told myself I should take a bye week from the Zone myself.....because it is one thing when Shaun was helping us win games that we had the same people slam him....and of course when the Team loses all hell breaks loose because for 2 weeks posters can talk sh1t freely because there will no 9er football to be seen to shut them up....

so I'll see if I can stay away for a couple of weeks.....as far as 9ertalk goes.

Audible

look, dude....I know Memphis likes to say that Shaun has the ability to audible...but that is not entirely true.... Shaun is NOT allowed to audible out of a running play......he stated this after the Arizona game when asked about why we kept running at their dline when it was obvious they were stacking the line. I tried to digg up the interview but I can't find video of it......but you can google it and you will find that I'm not the only one who heard it....I'm sure one of us can ask Matt M. about this topic and he will back it up.....

so when Shaun can't convert 3rd and something, because we chose to run the ball....that is not entirely his fault......and of course this coupled with drops on 3rd downs that would have resulted in 1st downs (some from Coffee, some from Bruce, and others) all have an affect on why our 3rd down conversion rates are so low.....and this is why you don't hear our coaches even entertaining the idea of benching him....they are there, they know what is going on.

Shaun Hillusions...