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98 & 99 @ DE!

Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by backontop:
ok so are you up in the air about the issue or against it. I can't tell you posted 2 seperate opinions back to back.


I'm against it. I'm still amazed at how some guys think this is a NEW wrinkle in the defense.

I dont even know where to start with you.

Who are these LBs who have played DE in a 4 down lineman set? I have watched every game for years and we havent had anybody good enough to play DE who was one of our OLBs. Manny has been hurt and Parys is just coming into his own.

Who are these players you speak of because I can only recall Green and he is a situational player at best.

This specific set of players in this nickle set is new and something that looks good on paper atleast.



You didn't see Haralson playing DE in the nickel/dime packages last season???
And as far as Green, he was still an OLB. And up until last season, he was our best pass rushing OLB.
All you guys jumped on NCommand for his earlier comment, but he is right.

Actually it was mostly Ray Mac and Smith at DE last year with people getting mixed in.

I didnt jump all over anybody and how is he right? This is the best looking Nickle I have seen on paper in years. Atleast it makes sense compared to packages in years past!

I totally agree! not that it makes them perform any better but with this personel we would have 3 first rounders on the front line!!

Originally posted by NCommand:
Not really. Haralson and Lawson need to be blitzing from a standup position off the LOS and with a running start - not with their hands down as psuedo DE's. Both would get man-handled by OT's one-on-one right off the line and I'm not sure how effective the inside would be against the inside rush. Is this another 4-2-5 lineup? AKA "hybrid defense?" Not only that, that lineup takes ALL unpredictability away. You basically give the o-line plenty of time to call out assignments. Obviously the two pseudo DE's are going to rush, there's only 2 LB's (middle of the field is wide open esp. off the tackles) and you probably don't want to pass in the 15+ range given there are 5 DB's. Ahhhh, shades of Nolan!

exactly
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Not really. Haralson and Lawson need to be blitzing from a standup position off the LOS and with a running start - not with their hands down as psuedo DE's. Both would get man-handled by OT's one-on-one right off the line and I'm not sure how effective the inside would be against the inside rush. Is this another 4-2-5 lineup? AKA "hybrid defense?" Not only that, that lineup takes ALL unpredictability away. You basically give the o-line plenty of time to call out assignments. Obviously the two pseudo DE's are going to rush, there's only 2 LB's (middle of the field is wide open esp. off the tackles) and you probably don't want to pass in the 15+ range given there are 5 DB's. Ahhhh, shades of Nolan!

exactly

exactly..... exactly misguided

Yep...with the additions of Evans and Jean-Francois, and maturing of KB, Manusky has a lot more options along the DL now. Keeping the opposition guessing who's coming from where is half the battle. I feel a lot better about our front 7 this year...lots of flexibility, and Singletary will give Manusky all the latitude he needs to exploit it.
Originally posted by Tman:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Not really. Haralson and Lawson need to be blitzing from a standup position off the LOS and with a running start - not with their hands down as psuedo DE's. Both would get man-handled by OT's one-on-one right off the line and I'm not sure how effective the inside would be against the inside rush. Is this another 4-2-5 lineup? AKA "hybrid defense?" Not only that, that lineup takes ALL unpredictability away. You basically give the o-line plenty of time to call out assignments. Obviously the two pseudo DE's are going to rush, there's only 2 LB's (middle of the field is wide open esp. off the tackles) and you probably don't want to pass in the 15+ range given there are 5 DB's. Ahhhh, shades of Nolan!

exactly

exactly..... exactly misguided


How so? When we ran the hybrid last year, Lawson and Willis were the two LB's and we'd use a whole slew of DL's which was relatively ineffective - esp. if a pass rush was our goal. When we ran more 3-4 sets, Lawson was removed from the field, placed on the bench and Haralson and Green would play psuedo DE's at the LOS from the same spots every single time. The DE's would be Sopaoaga & Smith with Franklin at NT. The only real difference with this is that you're adding Balmer to the inside and asking Lawson & Haralson to rush as pseudo DE's and I'm assuming Spikes will be the other LB. I'm not stating this would be an every-down base defense. I merely stating this probably won't be very effective at all if your goal is to create a pass rush b/c neither Lawson nor Haralson are put in positions where they might have more success and this defense is very soft in the middle. It does prevent the "big play" which was a Nolan staple but then again, QB's will have all day to scan the field and find open WR's and as always, lead to very few turnovers.

If pass rush is the goal to create havoc for the QB (e.g. create incomplete passes and generate loss of yardage and turnovers), they need to stay in a base 3-4 and move the OLB's off the LOS and move them around behind the LOS and switch positions and look to identify weaknesses along the O-line and attack those gaps and that INCLUDES using your middle LB's and utilizing CB & Safety blitzes which is something we NEVER use. Scheme is essential to this team even more so b/c we don't have dominant OLB's and NT's and only one semi-dominant DE. Coming from SD, Manusky has GOT to imploy that type of scheme if we are ever going to stop the run and dictate offenses instead of sitting back and hoping the offense fails.

[ Edited by NCommand on Jun 10, 2009 at 10:24:44 ]
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by backontop:
ok so are you up in the air about the issue or against it. I can't tell you posted 2 seperate opinions back to back.


I'm against it. I'm still amazed at how some guys think this is a NEW wrinkle in the defense.

I dont even know where to start with you.

Who are these LBs who have played DE in a 4 down lineman set? I have watched every game for years and we havent had anybody good enough to play DE who was one of our OLBs. Manny has been hurt and Parys is just coming into his own.

Who are these players you speak of because I can only recall Green and he is a situational player at best.

This specific set of players in this nickle set is new and something that looks good on paper atleast.



You didn't see Haralson playing DE in the nickel/dime packages last season???
And as far as Green, he was still an OLB. And up until last season, he was our best pass rushing OLB.
All you guys jumped on NCommand for his earlier comment, but he is right.

Actually it was mostly Ray Mac and Smith at DE last year with people getting mixed in.
I didnt jump all over anybody and how is he right? This is the best looking Nickle I have seen on paper in years. Atleast it makes sense compared to packages in years past!



"people getting mixed in".........Yea, like Haralson, Green, and TBC. When this happened, Smith would move inside to play DT.
This scheme is nothing new. The only differnce will be Balmer getting to play over RayMac.

When have the Niners had 2 speed rushers on the ends? Never thats when. Believe what you want but this line was built to rush the passer. Its a new look defense for sure.



WHAT? How do you consider Lawson a speed rusher? This guy has NEVER been able to rush the QB! NEVER in the pros anyway! And ANY line with Lawson in it is NOT "built to rush the passer".
And your "new look" defense is the same as last season. The only difference is Lawson playing where Green did and Balmer playing where RayMac did. As I said before, it was common to see Smith and RayMac playing DTs in dime packages. Leaving the ends to Haralson and Green!
NOTHING NEW
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by backontop:
ok so are you up in the air about the issue or against it. I can't tell you posted 2 seperate opinions back to back.


I'm against it. I'm still amazed at how some guys think this is a NEW wrinkle in the defense.

I dont even know where to start with you.

Who are these LBs who have played DE in a 4 down lineman set? I have watched every game for years and we havent had anybody good enough to play DE who was one of our OLBs. Manny has been hurt and Parys is just coming into his own.

Who are these players you speak of because I can only recall Green and he is a situational player at best.

This specific set of players in this nickle set is new and something that looks good on paper atleast.



You didn't see Haralson playing DE in the nickel/dime packages last season???
And as far as Green, he was still an OLB. And up until last season, he was our best pass rushing OLB.
All you guys jumped on NCommand for his earlier comment, but he is right.

Actually it was mostly Ray Mac and Smith at DE last year with people getting mixed in.
I didnt jump all over anybody and how is he right? This is the best looking Nickle I have seen on paper in years. Atleast it makes sense compared to packages in years past!



"people getting mixed in".........Yea, like Haralson, Green, and TBC. When this happened, Smith would move inside to play DT.
This scheme is nothing new. The only differnce will be Balmer getting to play over RayMac.

When have the Niners had 2 speed rushers on the ends? Never thats when. Believe what you want but this line was built to rush the passer. Its a new look defense for sure.



WHAT? How do you consider Lawson a speed rusher? This guy has NEVER been able to rush the QB! NEVER in the pros anyway! And ANY line with Lawson in it is NOT "built to rush the passer".
And your "new look" defense is the same as last season. The only difference is Lawson playing where Green did and Balmer playing where RayMac did. As I said before, it was common to see Smith and RayMac playing DTs in dime packages. Leaving the ends to Haralson and Green!
NOTHING NEW

Never is a bit much, seriously. Before his injury, he was makin' strides in his first series of games like the Rams one. He was applying pressure and was inches from makin' those sacks. Of course one game doesn't become the mirror into Manny's pass-rushing ability, but it does provide a glimpse. He injured himself, didn't come back until the end of last year, and now has had a complete offseason to improve.

IMO, I think most are underestimating his ability. However, I can see where they would get their opinion. After all, he hasn't lived up to the billing as a "pass-rusher" when they drafted him. Instead, Nolan used him incorrectly as mainly the "drop" guy.

Now, the ears are pinned back, he's mainly rushing the QB, and he's bigger, better, and completely healed allowing that good ol confidence to come back.

Yup, I expect bigger and better plays from Manny, but that is just me.
Originally posted by MadMartz:
We need a pass rush and these appear to be our best pass rushers so it only makes sense. My question is why didnt Nolan do this last year?

Two Words.........















Big Nickel
Originally posted by DJD:
I am quite impressed with Manuski, especially now that he doesn't have Nolan sitting on his shoulder.

agreed
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by backontop:
ok so are you up in the air about the issue or against it. I can't tell you posted 2 seperate opinions back to back.


I'm against it. I'm still amazed at how some guys think this is a NEW wrinkle in the defense.

I dont even know where to start with you.

Who are these LBs who have played DE in a 4 down lineman set? I have watched every game for years and we havent had anybody good enough to play DE who was one of our OLBs. Manny has been hurt and Parys is just coming into his own.

Who are these players you speak of because I can only recall Green and he is a situational player at best.

This specific set of players in this nickle set is new and something that looks good on paper atleast.



You didn't see Haralson playing DE in the nickel/dime packages last season???
And as far as Green, he was still an OLB. And up until last season, he was our best pass rushing OLB.
All you guys jumped on NCommand for his earlier comment, but he is right.

Actually it was mostly Ray Mac and Smith at DE last year with people getting mixed in.
I didnt jump all over anybody and how is he right? This is the best looking Nickle I have seen on paper in years. Atleast it makes sense compared to packages in years past!



"people getting mixed in".........Yea, like Haralson, Green, and TBC. When this happened, Smith would move inside to play DT.
This scheme is nothing new. The only differnce will be Balmer getting to play over RayMac.

When have the Niners had 2 speed rushers on the ends? Never thats when. Believe what you want but this line was built to rush the passer. Its a new look defense for sure.



WHAT? How do you consider Lawson a speed rusher? This guy has NEVER been able to rush the QB! NEVER in the pros anyway! And ANY line with Lawson in it is NOT "built to rush the passer".
And your "new look" defense is the same as last season. The only difference is Lawson playing where Green did and Balmer playing where RayMac did. As I said before, it was common to see Smith and RayMac playing DTs in dime packages. Leaving the ends to Haralson and Green!
NOTHING NEW

Never is a bit much, seriously. Before his injury, he was makin' strides in his first series of games like the Rams one. He was applying pressure and was inches from makin' those sacks. Of course one game doesn't become the mirror into Manny's pass-rushing ability, but it does provide a glimpse. He injured himself, didn't come back until the end of last year, and now has had a complete offseason to improve.

IMO, I think most are underestimating his ability. However, I can see where they would get their opinion. After all, he hasn't lived up to the billing as a "pass-rusher" when they drafted him. Instead, Nolan used him incorrectly as mainly the "drop" guy.

Now, the ears are pinned back, he's mainly rushing the QB, and he's bigger, better, and completely healed allowing that good ol confidence to come back.

Yup, I expect bigger and better plays from Manny, but that is just me.


You know, ALOT of people point to those couple of games before his injury and claim he was ready to explode that season. But I don't see it. Nothing Manny did in either of those first 2 games in 07 made me think he was on his way to being a dominant pass rusher. He looked pretty good overall, but nothing like a great pass rusher.
Now, he has added some weight in hopes that it will help him get after the QB. I hope it helps, but we'll see.
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by backontop:
ok so are you up in the air about the issue or against it. I can't tell you posted 2 seperate opinions back to back.


I'm against it. I'm still amazed at how some guys think this is a NEW wrinkle in the defense.

I dont even know where to start with you.

Who are these LBs who have played DE in a 4 down lineman set? I have watched every game for years and we havent had anybody good enough to play DE who was one of our OLBs. Manny has been hurt and Parys is just coming into his own.

Who are these players you speak of because I can only recall Green and he is a situational player at best.

This specific set of players in this nickle set is new and something that looks good on paper atleast.



You didn't see Haralson playing DE in the nickel/dime packages last season???
And as far as Green, he was still an OLB. And up until last season, he was our best pass rushing OLB.
All you guys jumped on NCommand for his earlier comment, but he is right.

Actually it was mostly Ray Mac and Smith at DE last year with people getting mixed in.
I didnt jump all over anybody and how is he right? This is the best looking Nickle I have seen on paper in years. Atleast it makes sense compared to packages in years past!



"people getting mixed in".........Yea, like Haralson, Green, and TBC. When this happened, Smith would move inside to play DT.
This scheme is nothing new. The only differnce will be Balmer getting to play over RayMac.

When have the Niners had 2 speed rushers on the ends? Never thats when. Believe what you want but this line was built to rush the passer. Its a new look defense for sure.



WHAT? How do you consider Lawson a speed rusher? This guy has NEVER been able to rush the QB! NEVER in the pros anyway! And ANY line with Lawson in it is NOT "built to rush the passer".
And your "new look" defense is the same as last season. The only difference is Lawson playing where Green did and Balmer playing where RayMac did. As I said before, it was common to see Smith and RayMac playing DTs in dime packages. Leaving the ends to Haralson and Green!
NOTHING NEW

Never is a bit much, seriously. Before his injury, he was makin' strides in his first series of games like the Rams one. He was applying pressure and was inches from makin' those sacks. Of course one game doesn't become the mirror into Manny's pass-rushing ability, but it does provide a glimpse. He injured himself, didn't come back until the end of last year, and now has had a complete offseason to improve.

IMO, I think most are underestimating his ability. However, I can see where they would get their opinion. After all, he hasn't lived up to the billing as a "pass-rusher" when they drafted him. Instead, Nolan used him incorrectly as mainly the "drop" guy.

Now, the ears are pinned back, he's mainly rushing the QB, and he's bigger, better, and completely healed allowing that good ol confidence to come back.

Yup, I expect bigger and better plays from Manny, but that is just me.


You know, ALOT of people point to those couple of games before his injury and claim he was ready to explode that season. But I don't see it. Nothing Manny did in either of those first 2 games in 07 made me think he was on his way to being a dominant pass rusher. He looked pretty good overall, but nothing like a great pass rusher.
Now, he has added some weight in hopes that it will help him get after the QB. I hope it helps, but we'll see.

I would agree that he didn't show elite skills, but I saw flashes. I saw the beginings of what could have been, but we will never know. The bottom line is that he has to step up this year. The good has to get better. Will he ever be elite? Who knows, but time.

Yet, I can't help but wonder the possibilities this year.

I can completely see and respect your point of view on this one. I am just hoping Manny proves it this season.
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by backontop:
ok so are you up in the air about the issue or against it. I can't tell you posted 2 seperate opinions back to back.


I'm against it. I'm still amazed at how some guys think this is a NEW wrinkle in the defense.

I dont even know where to start with you.

Who are these LBs who have played DE in a 4 down lineman set? I have watched every game for years and we havent had anybody good enough to play DE who was one of our OLBs. Manny has been hurt and Parys is just coming into his own.

Who are these players you speak of because I can only recall Green and he is a situational player at best.

This specific set of players in this nickle set is new and something that looks good on paper atleast.



You didn't see Haralson playing DE in the nickel/dime packages last season???
And as far as Green, he was still an OLB. And up until last season, he was our best pass rushing OLB.
All you guys jumped on NCommand for his earlier comment, but he is right.

Actually it was mostly Ray Mac and Smith at DE last year with people getting mixed in.
I didnt jump all over anybody and how is he right? This is the best looking Nickle I have seen on paper in years. Atleast it makes sense compared to packages in years past!



"people getting mixed in".........Yea, like Haralson, Green, and TBC. When this happened, Smith would move inside to play DT.
This scheme is nothing new. The only differnce will be Balmer getting to play over RayMac.

When have the Niners had 2 speed rushers on the ends? Never thats when. Believe what you want but this line was built to rush the passer. Its a new look defense for sure.



WHAT? How do you consider Lawson a speed rusher? This guy has NEVER been able to rush the QB! NEVER in the pros anyway! And ANY line with Lawson in it is NOT "built to rush the passer".
And your "new look" defense is the same as last season. The only difference is Lawson playing where Green did and Balmer playing where RayMac did. As I said before, it was common to see Smith and RayMac playing DTs in dime packages. Leaving the ends to Haralson and Green!
NOTHING NEW

While i agree its just the big Nickel putting 2 linebackers on the ends that can drop back into coverage is completely different then having Mac and Green. You dont want to drop back either one of those guys in a zone blitz. So yes it is new in the personnel aspect. And Lawson would be considered a speed rusher because of his speed
Originally posted by redmanc07:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by MadMartz:
Originally posted by AKfanster:
Originally posted by backontop:
ok so are you up in the air about the issue or against it. I can't tell you posted 2 seperate opinions back to back.


I'm against it. I'm still amazed at how some guys think this is a NEW wrinkle in the defense.

I dont even know where to start with you.

Who are these LBs who have played DE in a 4 down lineman set? I have watched every game for years and we havent had anybody good enough to play DE who was one of our OLBs. Manny has been hurt and Parys is just coming into his own.

Who are these players you speak of because I can only recall Green and he is a situational player at best.

This specific set of players in this nickle set is new and something that looks good on paper atleast.



You didn't see Haralson playing DE in the nickel/dime packages last season???
And as far as Green, he was still an OLB. And up until last season, he was our best pass rushing OLB.
All you guys jumped on NCommand for his earlier comment, but he is right.

Actually it was mostly Ray Mac and Smith at DE last year with people getting mixed in.
I didnt jump all over anybody and how is he right? This is the best looking Nickle I have seen on paper in years. Atleast it makes sense compared to packages in years past!



"people getting mixed in".........Yea, like Haralson, Green, and TBC. When this happened, Smith would move inside to play DT.
This scheme is nothing new. The only differnce will be Balmer getting to play over RayMac.

When have the Niners had 2 speed rushers on the ends? Never thats when. Believe what you want but this line was built to rush the passer. Its a new look defense for sure.



WHAT? How do you consider Lawson a speed rusher? This guy has NEVER been able to rush the QB! NEVER in the pros anyway! And ANY line with Lawson in it is NOT "built to rush the passer".
And your "new look" defense is the same as last season. The only difference is Lawson playing where Green did and Balmer playing where RayMac did. As I said before, it was common to see Smith and RayMac playing DTs in dime packages. Leaving the ends to Haralson and Green!
NOTHING NEW

While i agree its just the big Nickel putting 2 linebackers on the ends that can drop back into coverage is completely different then having Mac and Green. You dont want to drop back either one of those guys in a zone blitz. So yes it is new in the personnel aspect. And Lawson would be considered a speed rusher because of his speed


The players are different, but the scheme is the same. And No, it's no different. How is it different using Balmer instead of RayMac??? How is it different using Lawson instead of Green? It's still the same idea of moving the ends inside and moving the OLBs to DE.
And as far as Lawson goes, why would you think he'll get better pressure in this formation??? He can't get pressure standing up, how is he gonna get it with his hand in the dirt???
I hope he proves me wrong and tears it up this season! I WANT him to prove me and all the nay sayers wrong! The D will be in the top 5 if Lawson can get steady pressure this year. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Tman:
Originally posted by lamontb:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Not really. Haralson and Lawson need to be blitzing from a standup position off the LOS and with a running start - not with their hands down as psuedo DE's. Both would get man-handled by OT's one-on-one right off the line and I'm not sure how effective the inside would be against the inside rush. Is this another 4-2-5 lineup? AKA "hybrid defense?" Not only that, that lineup takes ALL unpredictability away. You basically give the o-line plenty of time to call out assignments. Obviously the two pseudo DE's are going to rush, there's only 2 LB's (middle of the field is wide open esp. off the tackles) and you probably don't want to pass in the 15+ range given there are 5 DB's. Ahhhh, shades of Nolan!

exactly

exactly..... exactly misguided


How so? When we ran the hybrid last year, Lawson and Willis were the two LB's and we'd use a whole slew of DL's which was relatively ineffective - esp. if a pass rush was our goal. When we ran more 3-4 sets, Lawson was removed from the field, placed on the bench and Haralson and Green would play psuedo DE's at the LOS from the same spots every single time. The DE's would be Sopaoaga & Smith with Franklin at NT. The only real difference with this is that you're adding Balmer to the inside and asking Lawson & Haralson to rush as pseudo DE's and I'm assuming Spikes will be the other LB. I'm not stating this would be an every-down base defense. I merely stating this probably won't be very effective at all if your goal is to create a pass rush b/c neither Lawson nor Haralson are put in positions where they might have more success and this defense is very soft in the middle. It does prevent the "big play" which was a Nolan staple but then again, QB's will have all day to scan the field and find open WR's and as always, lead to very few turnovers.

If pass rush is the goal to create havoc for the QB (e.g. create incomplete passes and generate loss of yardage and turnovers), they need to stay in a base 3-4 and move the OLB's off the LOS and move them around behind the LOS and switch positions and look to identify weaknesses along the O-line and attack those gaps and that INCLUDES using your middle LB's and utilizing CB & Safety blitzes which is something we NEVER use. Scheme is essential to this team even more so b/c we don't have dominant OLB's and NT's and only one semi-dominant DE. Coming from SD, Manusky has GOT to imploy that type of scheme if we are ever going to stop the run and dictate offenses instead of sitting back and hoping the offense fails.

You are misguided in the fact that you went off on a tangent and are trying to make a case for us not using the "hybrid" system and instead to use the base 3-4. I totally respect your opinion and you are completely right the hybrid system was wack and we ARE going to be using a base 3-4. That has been well publisized (sp?).

If you read what I originally posted they were working on thier "NICKEL" package not a "hybrid" base. Which will be used in passing situations. All teams use some form of a nickel package and we were practicing ours. You wouldnt want to stay in a base 3-4 if the opposing team was at 3rd and 10 with 3 or 4 wrs would you? So who better to line our front 4 with Then Lawson, Smith, Balmer (if he comes around) and Haralson?

So thinking back on the wonderful creation of the hybrid and an earlier posters reference to the "BIG NICKEL" (which made me laugh by the way). It was used pretty extensively against the seahawks (1st game) and the saints. And if I remember right, correct me if im wrong, we used 4 DLs, 2 LBs, 2 Cbs and 3 Safeties. 3 safeties giving it the BIG denomonation. Man did that get burned, the saints game was brutal.

Originally posted by Tman:
You are misguided in the fact that you went off on a tangent and are trying to make a case for us not using the "hybrid" system and instead to use the base 3-4. I totally respect your opinion and you are completely right the hybrid system was wack and we ARE going to be using a base 3-4. That has been well publisized (sp?).

Thanks for your points. The only tangent I went off on though is that I didn't see how that lineup would be effective in passing situations and how it didn't play to the strengths of Lawson & Haralson and how it is a predictable defense to combat and how it was ineffective last year - and how scheme is just as important as the players who play in it. I'm happy to see us going with a base 3-4 despite not having any dominant full-time (or unproven) OLB's and NT. But we played a very vanilla and predictable 3-4 last year too which, I'm hoping, will not be the case this year.

Originally posted by Tman:
If you read what I originally posted they were working on thier "NICKEL" package not a "hybrid" base. Which will be used in passing situations. All teams use some form of a nickel package and we were practicing ours. You wouldnt want to stay in a base 3-4 if the opposing team was at 3rd and 10 with 3 or 4 wrs would you? So who better to line our front 4 with Then Lawson, Smith, Balmer (if he comes around) and Haralson?


This is true but a draw, off-tackle run (esp. towards Lawson), any pass in the 5-15 yard range, crossing pattern, etc. will destroy this defense. An inside rush might work too as both Smith & Balmer can be taken out easier inside with the center and two guards rather then having Smith on the outside where he can move and fight through 1, sometimes 2 blockers. I'd probably use a three-man front (since they are in a 3rd and long set) and pull Lawson and Haralson off the LOS...more of a base 3-4 but also walking your safety up to the LOS so you have no idea who is going to blitz...Lawson, Haralson, Willis/Spikes, Lewis, CB blitz? I'd ask the CB's to also play tight at the LOS and be very physical. The tighter they are, the easier it is to throw off the timing of the WR and run a CB blitz off of.

Sure, if they run 4+ WR's, we'd have to combat that using more corners but it doesn't mean you have to use a 4-man front. A 4-man front is predictable and leaves the middle of field wide open.

Originally posted by Tman:
So thinking back on the wonderful creation of the hybrid and an earlier posters reference to the "BIG NICKEL" (which made me laugh by the way). It was used pretty extensively against the seahawks (1st game) and the saints. And if I remember right, correct me if im wrong, we used 4 DLs, 2 LBs, 2 Cbs and 3 Safeties. 3 safeties giving it the BIG denomonation. Man did that get burned, the saints game was brutal.


No doubt, we got destroyed mostly with this defense which was exactly my point to begin with.