QB Competition

Painful.

Congrats.

Originally posted by Mospeed:
I too would like Smith to start, especially based on what I saw yesterday though I would be happy with either of them under center. Why does Alex throw so many passes that are dropped though? I thought I was having a flashback to the 2007 season when Alex threw the interception, maybe he just needs to get the height of his balls down a little bit but I still feel like the receivers need to be able to look those kind of passes into their hands.

Maybe because they're used to Hill floating them in there? I don't know. He does tend to throw the ball too high sometimes. He needs to work on his accuracy somehow (maybe just repetition and getting comfortable with an offense).

I still don't understand why the 2 deep passes called in the 2nd qtr while Hill was back there, were for Battle and Robinson.....2 of our slower receivers...(they were, as expected, blanketed).....I can understand why Hill didn't really put the ball in play.

I'd like to respond to a couple of things I have read in the this thread.

Someone called that pass from Hill to Battle a dump off....here we go again it was not a dump off and it looked like the exact same play to Vernon the previous week....it seems to work for us...got us 15 yards on both occasions.

Shaun Hill did not look good. Morgan saved his arse on that one pass, like he saved Alex's the previous week. Hill just looked off....but that is what will be good about the regular season...He'll get to player with the starters and will have 4qtrs to play.

As far as Alex......He played better than last week....ummm, beside the first pass attempt which he held the ball too long....he seemed to make quick reads the rest of the way.....but his problem seems to be touch on certain passes. He just guns his passes off target....ideally, yes as PRO NFL WRs, they are expected to make those catches....but that is not the case most of the time in the real world. (or at least 49ers WRs world, haha)....

but it seems like he guns the passes because it takes him longer to read the defense and tries to makeup for it by gunning the ball....again, I know the WRs are expected to make those catches...but after awhile there are going to be alot of 9er fans who will turn on Alex as soon as Morgan or Vernon is injured trying to catch those "catchable" passes in traffic....Morgan could have got hurt on that one INT...he was very vulnerable to a nasty hit.

But either way, Alex found the open guy...which is what is important....he just needs to hit them on the #s if he wants to throw it that hard.

for those who feel Alex is not putting to much unnecessary power into his throws....I think a perfect example is that toss play to Glen Coffee in the 1st qtr. I don't know if anyone else noticed it but he almost tossed it pass Coffee because the tossed it too hard....it was unnecessary...but Coffee did a good job of adjusting.

If you feel I'm just BSing....I'll say this....if you expect our receivers to make all those catches from Alex then I got some bad news for you....its not going to happen....so what decision would you like.....Keep Alex and get rid of all of our receivers...and bring in some Pro Bowlers?.....or let Vernon, Morgan, etc say with us and let Alex spread his true talent with another team who can catch his passes.

ok seriously, Nate Davis showed how Alex should have done it tonight.....most of his passes had touch and were catchable......but the one pass in which he had to gun was to Walker in the endzone through traffic for the 2pt conversion....this pass, which much velocity, was right on the #s and Walker caught an important pass at a crucial time.

After last night's game the answer is obvious.

Start Smith



AND...start Hill.

Start them both, Hill at QB, and Smith at Safety. After he upended Ellis and then dragged down th defender on the INT return maybe we should reconsider how we use him. Although with Smith's little hands I don't know if he'll be able to make picks. Hmmmmmm

I know im gettin tired of hearing the alex smith throws too high. Every ball should of been caught yesterday just as the announcers said. That catch to bruce wasnt even that hard, it was a hill type wobbly throw, and he dropped it. That one to vernon went through his hands and he should of caught that one. That ball to Morgan should of been caught as well. He took his eyes off of it, and even he said should of just worried about the catch first then everything else.

What make a wide receiver is his hands, i watched brady, manning, ryan, flacco, and all three of these men throw behind, a little low, and a little high to receivers. Doesnt matter how often but as a receiver at least even when i played my coaches always say if you get your hands on the ball it should be caught. So please stop making all the damn excuses about too high. All the passes should of been caught. And even on the INT, espn, nfl network, and morgan himself said that ball should of been caught.

So yesterday although neither qb did great. With all that smith did, from the ellis tackle, then on the int tackle, then the dropped passes that werent his fault, he clearly won the competition yesterday.

Also in regards to hill, many may not like it, but the raiders shut down his short game, and once they did that he became ineffective. Say what you want but with hill going from last week, and this week, he needs to spread the field more and break out of that let me find the guy underneath constantly. If he does start the season i dont see any of our wr's breaking 1000 yds. Maybe davis because in hills mind it's find the te or underneath man first then spread the field later. And im not going off of last season. Im going off of the first two preseason games.

Imagine that... more deceptive stats for Alex Smith...

http://www.sacbee.com/sf49ers/story/2132065.html?mi_rss=49ers

Barrows: Alex Smith impresses - sort of

Quote:
Saturday's game was billed as Smith's last chance to make a big impression and keep the 49ers' quarterback competition tight. He left the game with a 4.2 passer rating, and you might conclude from that figure that the competition is over. That stat, however, is deceiving. But Smith's play didn't inspire great performances from his receivers. He and Davis nearly hooked up a second time on third down, but Davis couldn't hold onto the pass. On the next drive, wide receiver Josh Morgan was the culprit. Smith's third-down pass deflected off his hands and into the arms of a Raiders linebacker. If those catches are made, Smith's passer rating is 69.2.

Here's what Smith supporters don't get. It's not about fault when it comes to negative plays. Whether you're just not that good or you're just unlucky isn't relevant in the NFL...you either move the team and make good things happen when you have a shot to do so, or you don't.

Sure, it can be pointed out that Smith didn't throw a terrible ball, or that Morgan and Davis dropped seemingly catchable balls and in that sense, Smith didn't play terribly. That's a legitimate point of view.

It still doesn't change the fact that under Smith, we gave up the only 49er turnover of the game and he was the only QB of the three that didn't lead his team to score points. The "why's" and the "how's" only matter from an evaluation standpoint, but if as a QB you can't find a way to make good things happen on the field, you shouldn't start.

Call it unlucky, bad karma, misfortune, whatever...you either move the team on a consistent basis or you don't.

Originally posted by GoFD74:
Here's what Smith supporters don't get. It's not about fault when it comes to negative plays. Whether you're just not that good or you're just unlucky isn't relevant in the NFL...you .

Gonna have to just stop reading from there... it certainly does matter, or there never would have been a competition in the first place. Meaning that although Alex has had overall poor numbers, other adverse factors have been considered into why that is... not just the bottom line, end result type of thinking. The same does and should apply here.... will it? we'll see.

I didnt read the whole thread, but that pass to Bruce from Smith looked to be deflected to me.... I would swear that the D-lineman got it with his right hand....both QB's have been helped by an iknterception being averted by Morgan taking a ball and that excites me that Morgan keeps progressing!

I am not for either at this point but I do think all of the things that people throw out there because of love or hate for a particular guy is hilarious....

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by GoFD74:
Here's what Smith supporters don't get. It's not about fault when it comes to negative plays. Whether you're just not that good or you're just unlucky isn't relevant in the NFL...you .

Gonna have to just stop reading from there... it certainly does matter, or there never would have been a competition in the first place. Meaning that although Alex has had overall poor numbers, other adverse factors have been considered into why that is... not just the bottom line, end result type of thinking. The same does and should apply here.... will it? we'll see.

I know what you're saying, but you're missing my point. The NFL is a bottom-line/end result kind of world. As a QB, you either win or you get benched. As a coach, you either win or you get fired. As a GM, your team either wins or you find another job.

Now, as I said, the why's and how's do get factored in from an evaluation standpoint...of course. People don't just blindly lose their jobs without some consideration of the details. But at the end of the day, the results matter most in this league. Surely you know this.

Originally posted by Afrikan:
I still don't understand why the 2 deep passes called in the 2nd qtr while Hill was back there, were for Battle and Robinson.....2 of our slower receivers...(they were, as expected, blanketed).....I can understand why Hill didn't really put the ball in play.

I'd like to respond to a couple of things I have read in the this thread.

Someone called that pass from Hill to Battle a dump off....here we go again it was not a dump off and it looked like the exact same play to Vernon the previous week....it seems to work for us...got us 15 yards on both occasions.

Shaun Hill did not look good. Morgan saved his arse on that one pass, like he saved Alex's the previous week. Hill just looked off....but that is what will be good about the regular season...He'll get to player with the starters and will have 4qtrs to play.

As far as Alex......He played better than last week....ummm, beside the first pass attempt which he held the ball too long....he seemed to make quick reads the rest of the way.....but his problem seems to be touch on certain passes. He just guns his passes off target....ideally, yes as PRO NFL WRs, they are expected to make those catches....but that is not the case most of the time in the real world. (or at least 49ers WRs world, haha)....

but it seems like he guns the passes because it takes him longer to read the defense and tries to makeup for it by gunning the ball....again, I know the WRs are expected to make those catches...but after awhile there are going to be alot of 9er fans who will turn on Alex as soon as Morgan or Vernon is injured trying to catch those "catchable" passes in traffic....Morgan could have got hurt on that one INT...he was very vulnerable to a nasty hit.

But either way, Alex found the open guy...which is what is important....he just needs to hit them on the #s if he wants to throw it that hard.

for those who feel Alex is not putting to much unnecessary power into his throws....I think a perfect example is that toss play to Glen Coffee in the 1st qtr. I don't know if anyone else noticed it but he almost tossed it pass Coffee because the tossed it too hard....it was unnecessary...but Coffee did a good job of adjusting.

If you feel I'm just BSing....I'll say this....if you expect our receivers to make all those catches from Alex then I got some bad news for you....its not going to happen....so what decision would you like.....Keep Alex and get rid of all of our receivers...and bring in some Pro Bowlers?.....or let Vernon, Morgan, etc say with us and let Alex spread his true talent with another team who can catch his passes.

ok seriously, Nate Davis showed how Alex should have done it tonight.....most of his passes had touch and were catchable......but the one pass in which he had to gun was to Walker in the endzone through traffic for the 2pt conversion....this pass, which much velocity, was right on the #s and Walker caught an important pass at a crucial time.

LOL, what? Why would that even be an option to get rid of the receivers because they can't catch a fastball? The receivers will catch his passes, their hands aren't made of super balls. If Alex starts I'd like to see his lauded accuracy actually show up in a game, but our receivers are good enough to catch most passes that are in their vicinity. And we do have one pro bowl and future hall of famer at receiver.

This is a really negative thing to say, but I kind of hope Smith/Hill look so bad this year, Scot has no choice but to address the QB situation, or maybe he should come under fire.

Originally posted by trogdor:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
I still don't understand why the 2 deep passes called in the 2nd qtr while Hill was back there, were for Battle and Robinson.....2 of our slower receivers...(they were, as expected, blanketed).....I can understand why Hill didn't really put the ball in play.

I'd like to respond to a couple of things I have read in the this thread.

Someone called that pass from Hill to Battle a dump off....here we go again it was not a dump off and it looked like the exact same play to Vernon the previous week....it seems to work for us...got us 15 yards on both occasions.

Shaun Hill did not look good. Morgan saved his arse on that one pass, like he saved Alex's the previous week. Hill just looked off....but that is what will be good about the regular season...He'll get to player with the starters and will have 4qtrs to play.

As far as Alex......He played better than last week....ummm, beside the first pass attempt which he held the ball too long....he seemed to make quick reads the rest of the way.....but his problem seems to be touch on certain passes. He just guns his passes off target....ideally, yes as PRO NFL WRs, they are expected to make those catches....but that is not the case most of the time in the real world. (or at least 49ers WRs world, haha)....

but it seems like he guns the passes because it takes him longer to read the defense and tries to makeup for it by gunning the ball....again, I know the WRs are expected to make those catches...but after awhile there are going to be alot of 9er fans who will turn on Alex as soon as Morgan or Vernon is injured trying to catch those "catchable" passes in traffic....Morgan could have got hurt on that one INT...he was very vulnerable to a nasty hit.

But either way, Alex found the open guy...which is what is important....he just needs to hit them on the #s if he wants to throw it that hard.

for those who feel Alex is not putting to much unnecessary power into his throws....I think a perfect example is that toss play to Glen Coffee in the 1st qtr. I don't know if anyone else noticed it but he almost tossed it pass Coffee because the tossed it too hard....it was unnecessary...but Coffee did a good job of adjusting.

If you feel I'm just BSing....I'll say this....if you expect our receivers to make all those catches from Alex then I got some bad news for you....its not going to happen....so what decision would you like.....Keep Alex and get rid of all of our receivers...and bring in some Pro Bowlers?.....or let Vernon, Morgan, etc say with us and let Alex spread his true talent with another team who can catch his passes.

ok seriously, Nate Davis showed how Alex should have done it tonight.....most of his passes had touch and were catchable......but the one pass in which he had to gun was to Walker in the endzone through traffic for the 2pt conversion....this pass, which much velocity, was right on the #s and Walker caught an important pass at a crucial time.

LOL, what? Why would that even be an option to get rid of the receivers because they can't catch a fastball? The receivers will catch his passes, their hands aren't made of super balls. If Alex starts I'd like to see his lauded accuracy actually show up in a game, but our receivers are good enough to catch most passes that are in their vicinity. And we do have one pro bowl and future hall of famer at receiver.

I think your taking things outta context here and aren't looking at that as pure sarcasm. When you read the whole paragraph it makes sense.

Okay, guys with the QB situation just about decided (Shaun Hill=starter), after last night, what it be safe to conclude that it may be over for Alex Smith as a viable candidate for niners QB position? Do you think it may be good for us to invest whatever meaningful time and preparation into Davis instead of Smith? I mean Davis did look pretty good in the game flow adlibbing and all; just a thought?


GO NINERS!

Originally posted by GoFD74:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by GoFD74:
Here's what Smith supporters don't get. It's not about fault when it comes to negative plays. Whether you're just not that good or you're just unlucky isn't relevant in the NFL...you .

Gonna have to just stop reading from there... it certainly does matter, or there never would have been a competition in the first place. Meaning that although Alex has had overall poor numbers, other adverse factors have been considered into why that is... not just the bottom line, end result type of thinking. The same does and should apply here.... will it? we'll see.

I know what you're saying, but you're missing my point. The NFL is a bottom-line/end result kind of world. As a QB, you either win or you get benched. As a coach, you either win or you get fired. As a GM, your team either wins or you find another job.

Now, as I said, the why's and how's do get factored in from an evaluation standpoint...of course. People don't just blindly lose their jobs without some consideration of the details. But at the end of the day, the results matter most in this league. Surely you know this.

Yes, I see now where you are coming from. Just don'tknow how I feel about it. Seems wrong for a QB to do what he needs to do, only to have horrid play around him ruin or negatively affect his future. Guess I'm hoping that his chances to start are not over because of these circumstances... and that the damn receivers will do their jobs for all QBs (not to say that they are deliberately dropping passes).