There are 73 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

For all of the draftniks who think the Niners need a big fat NT.

Originally posted by 9erred:
Originally posted by eonblue:
I don't understand the logic behind this 35% argument. I mean do you guys think we should just switch to 4-3 then? From a cap standpoint it would make much more sense to draft a solid NT or 2. You wouldn't have to resign sopo or RJF which opens up money for extensions and you would probably get more production from the rookies.

Originally posted by stever:
Sure, but those guys are top 10 picks. We need a lot of luck to pick up a player like them where we are picking.

No. We could pick up Jesse Williams who has played both NT and DE in nickle packages. Most mocks have him dropping to the second or being picked by us. We could trade up for Hankins who is a great prospect that can play DE in the nickel. Hes not breaking the top 10 and some have him falling to 20's.


It is not a 35% arugment. I am the OP and I am stating that most zoners get HUNG UP on the Niners running a 3-4. The beauty of the 3-4 is you can change your scheme easily, a 3-4 team can play the 4-3 hybrid. But a team who only has 4-3 personnel cannot play the 3-4 as easily. So my point is I would not use the number 1 pick on a NT. If there was a Vince Wilford, BJ Raji or Star Loutie at pick 31, then yes, but that caliber player will be gone. My point is I would rather have a 3-4 DE like Cowboy who can play the 5 technique and the 3 technique at pick 31. You can get the 1-gapper in round 3 or beyond.

Agree 100% with this.
  • cools
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,300
I'd like to bring Franklin back
We use our hybrid because of the personnel we have. Ice is not a true Zero-Tech, never has been. That's why he moved over to 5-tech for a bit and was more successful there, then he returned to the middle for RayMac at DE. We still don't have a true Zero-tech. That is why three players intrigue me: Williams, Sharif and my fav, Jenkins. And, Jenkins did very well at the SB especially one-on-one.

All three fit the Baalke-mold of versatility. Any one of those three would be of HUGE value because of their ability to play any position on the DL. He could start be rotated in with RJF to allow him to get acclimated through the season. Any of these three as well as moving up for Star or Sheldon would give our D the necessary edge. I can see Star for sure, but Sheldon would be a primary DE competing against RayMac and the Cowboy. IMO, he wouldn't see the field as much as the other DTs because of their versatility.

Getting a Jenkins, you could have him compete immediately for NT while still giving you versatility if one of the DEs went down. This is the first draft in some time that these kind of versatile DTs would be abundant in the first. All of those three are all mid to late round prospects. BTW, Jenkins is being compared to Wilfolk... just sayin.

So 9erred, IMO, any of those three would have immediate and lasting value at that pick especially with the D we run. We could run traditional 3-4 or the hybrid. The difference with one of those young fatties is that the talent-level and upside increases dramatically now at NT. There was a reason both RJF and Ian Williams were real late round picks. Not saying they can't do it. I'm just saying it is time to upgrade the NT position and rectify the atrocity that was the 2002 draft when we let go Vince Wilfolk.

That's just my dos centavos.

Nice post, BTW.
Best DLine Player Available.

What the DLIne nees, IMHO, is a "Rotation" to keep the guys fresh for the long haul.

If Cowboy, Ray Mac & NT play less snaps they should fresh and stronger for the playoffs.

FORGET about Dobbs & Tuk - if they were any part of te solution they would have gotten MORE snaps before they got hurt. They are LESS than average.

RJF needs a lot of work.

We need a NT and 2 DE's One can come by way of FA. We need to create an effective rotation especially if one of the starters go down. When Justin went down in the Pats game we gave up yards and points - NOT a coincidence.
Too early to say with trades and free agency coming up. I'd say trade for Harvin. Move outta the first. Then make about 6 picks in the 2nd and 3rd round.
Jesse Williams is worth trading up for, IMO. If we package our late 1st and our early 3rd rounder (76th overall from CAR), that could get us up to the 21st pick overall; that's a reasonable landing spot for a talent like Williams, and it wouldn't cost us a whole lot.
I think we need Defensive Line real bad. Both Sopoaga and RJF may possibly leave. And Justin Smith is getting older and recently has shown injuries. We almost got to go defensive line in the 1st round. Maybe 2nd also. I think it's our biggest hole by far. Maybe use some of those extra picks to deal up a little bit. From 31 to 25 or 22 or whatever. Maybe we could land a better prospect there.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I think we need Defensive Line real bad. Both Sopoaga and RJF may possibly leave. And Justin Smith is getting older and recently has shown injuries. We almost got to go defensive line in the 1st round. Maybe 2nd also. I think it's our biggest hole by far. Maybe use some of those extra picks to deal up a little bit. From 31 to 25 or 22 or whatever. Maybe we could land a better prospect there.

He doesnt miss one game due to injury during his entire career, and he has ONE major injury and has shown injurieS?
In spite of the fact that Soap played only 35% of the time, I saw teams run on us this season in a way that I haven't seen in awhile. We're fine eliminating th speedy backs who prefer to bounce outside or some no name back, but when the bigger name backs come to town, we struggle slowing them down. I still say go NT in the first because it takes some of the pressure off of Justin Smith. Many people talk about how Justin Smith helps Aldon Smith. It would be nice if we had a NT that could actually help Justin Smith out by drawing more attention. Things like that allow older players to continue producing at a high level, even if their game may have declined some. There is a thread in the draft room about being all in for Jesse Williams and I think he represents good value at the pick, a high motor, and has played both3-4 DE and NT at Alabama, so we have versatility as far as substitution goes or if we have any injuries on the defensive line.
Originally posted by 9erred:
It is not a 35% arugment. I am the OP and I am stating that most zoners get HUNG UP on the Niners running a 3-4. The beauty of the 3-4 is you can change your scheme easily, a 3-4 team can play the 4-3 hybrid. But a team who only has 4-3 peronnel cannot play the 3-4 as easily. So my point is I would not use the num ber 1 pick on a NT. If there was a Vince Wilkford, BJ Raji or Star Loutie at pick 31, then yes, but that calibur player will be gone. My point is I would rather have a 3-4 DE like Cowboy who can play the 5 technique and the 3 technique at pick 31. You can get the 1 gapper in round 3 or beyond.

As I stated in my initial response, you are raising a very solid point. In a perfect world, we would grab someone like Justin Smith or Ray McDonald who can capably play the 5-tech and the 3-tech.

As someone who projected Jenkins in the first, however, I would argue that he represents about as much value as we can get at #31. Sopoaga was virtually worthless this year, and adding a massive, space-eating, pocket-pushing beast like Jenkins makes the entire defense markedly better--even if it's only 35% of the time.

I would really love to grab Sheldon Richardson, Datone Jones, or Sharrif Floyd, but we would need to trade up at least 10 spots in all likelihood.
Originally posted by JamesGatz83:
This is a valid point. That said, 35% of the time, we do need a run stuffing nose.

A big reason we spent 65% of the time in nickel and dime packages is because teams gave up on the run game due to our ability to shut it down. It is important that we retain the ability to make teams one-dimensional.

I agree with this. We still need that clogger in the middle but in a later round.
we were probably in a lot of 2 DL sets because of lack of depth and to conserve their energy for the season...... that strategy didn't work, because our DL's still wore out.... and it actually hurt our OLB's because they wore out too.... because of lack of depth.
You guys don't think a big reason why Soap played only about 30 percent of the time was poor performance? As mentioned a couple of posts earlier, teams were running a lot better on us this year. Somebody like J. Jenkins or J. Williams could get us right back to being the best rush defense.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
In spite of the fact that Soap played only 35% of the time, I saw teams run on us this season in a way that I haven't seen in awhile. We're fine eliminating th speedy backs who prefer to bounce outside or some no name back, but when the bigger name backs come to town, we struggle slowing them down. I still say go NT in the first because it takes some of the pressure off of Justin Smith. Many people talk about how Justin Smith helps Aldon Smith. It would be nice if we had a NT that could actually help Justin Smith out by drawing more attention. Things like that allow older players to continue producing at a high level, even if their game may have declined some. There is a thread in the draft room about being all in for Jesse Williams and I think he represents good value at the pick, a high motor, and has played both3-4 DE and NT at Alabama, so we have versatility as far as substitution goes or if we have any injuries on the defensive line.

This. I think we all saw the same thing, some people just want to obfuscate the issues for whatever reason. This team utterly dominated inferior competition but generally teams with physical, big running backs did well against this defense and a large part of it was because this team doesn't have and hasn't had a true 0 technique NT. Soap is a DE playing NT, it's as simply as that. He did yeoman's work last year, struggled this year, and its clear that his future isn't at NT for the 49ers. They need someone that takes up space, eats up multiple blockers and allows the Pro-Bowl linebackers to come clean and make plays.

That is the one thing that has bugged me for years about this team, even Franklin wasn't a true 0 technique type of NT. So when people talking about running a 3-4 and running a hyrid, its a bunch of rubbish, this team has been lacking in the most key position in a true 3-4 defense for years. Its time to alleviate that and get a real NT and either re-sign Soap to backup and rotate in at DE, or simply let him talk.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Feb 12, 2013 at 3:55 PM ]
  • fryet
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,812
I support getting a NT in the first, like others have mentioned.

1. He will play more than 35% of the snaps if he is good. He should be able to play on nickel downs as well. We don't really want him playing 100% of the snaps because we want a DL rotation.
2. Upgrading NT will have a bigger impact on our defense this year than drafting someone to backup Justin Smith since they will be on the field more, alongside Justin.
3. I also think that a NT would help our goal line/red zone defense. We weren't that good in the red zone this year, and an improvement there could help our defense a great deal. On the goal line, I think you want as many good DL as you can get on the line.
Search Podcast Draft Forum Commentary News Shop Home