There are 104 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Is anyone else skeptical of drafting an NT high?

Michael Carter was a nose tackle and a key part of the Niners Super Bowl era. If there is a good one then yes you do draft high. Look at Ngata and Wolfork, both in the AFC title game--yet again.
Originally posted by sfninerfanMax:
Michael Carter was a nose tackle and a key part of the Niners Super Bowl era. If there is a good one then yes you do draft high. Look at Ngata and Wolfork, both in the AFC title game--yet again.

A good NT makes s**tty linebackers look decent, a good NT makes great linebackers look absolutely ridiculous.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
That's the problem, there is none in this draft short of perhaps Richardson who will be gone well before the 49ers pick.

Like I said, more of the so-called 3-4 DE prospects resemble Ray McDonald rather than Justin Smith. You've got primarily guys with very limited pass rush ability, solid run-stoppers, but limited ability to get to the quarterback. Anyone expecting pretty much any of these guys to be an adequate replacement for Justin Smith are going to be sorely disappointed.


Coming out of college, Justin Smith was a 6-4, 270 pound defensive end running a 4.6 40, able to stop the run AND rush the passer with a variety of moves combined with an absolute non-stop motor and tremendous work ethic.


I'd rather take a chance on a smaller defensive end who can rush the passer, hopefully growing into the role vs just picking some guy because he happens to be big but isn't a complete player overall.


As far as NT, unless Goldson isn't re-signed, I see that as THE priority, that is the single biggest move this team could make to improve the defense as a whole, there's no other position that you could swap out, short of finding a Sherman-esque CB in the late rounds, that would have as much of an impact as finding a high quality starting NT that would free up Bowman and Willis to go and make big plays.

Cowboy has a pro bowl caliber 5-technique AND a pro-bowl caliber 3-technique. That's why he's so dangerous.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
So you're going to take a backup DE with no pass rush ability in the first round and look for a 1st round quality starting NT in the 3rd round???






The whole point of drafting a 3-4 DE is to find someone with a similar skillset as Justin Smith to replace him eventually....drafting a guy just because he's a 3-4 DE is absurd. Having two Ray McDonald's still doesn't equal Justin Smith. I'd much more happily wait a year for some legit prospects to emerge, even if you have to trade up, then take a guy because he's there. The 49ers have 2 quality DE's, if Soap leaves, they'll basically be left with Williams and no mas at NT. The position represents the biggest possible improvement on the defense from this year to next.


If they were going to draft a 3-4 DE, last year was the time to do it, they could have had their pick of either Derek Wolfe or Kendall Reyes, both outstanding prospects, both with pass-rush ability, non-stop motors...etc...etc. Instead they took a 150 pound project WR.


I think in this draft you take someone like Jesse Williams or Jonathan Jenkins, set them up as the starter and go for depth with the rest of the picks. Of course that said, Baalke will probably draft a TE or a Center in the first round.

I'm perfectly fine with 2 - 3 Ray McDonalds anchoring our defensive line
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Cowboy has a pro bowl caliber 5-technique AND a pro-bowl caliber 3-technique. That's why he's so dangerous.

Which is why trying to replace him with just a run-of-the-mill 5 technique or 4-3 DT isn't going to work. Like I said, most of these guys more resemble Ray McDonald than Justin Smith, with that in mind, I'm all on board for a starting NT, because they don't rack up huge stats, many people drastically underestimate the importance of them. Its not a coincidence that teams have run on the 49ers far more easily while Soap has been underperforming this year. The NT literally frees up the rest of the defense to attack and gives more options to the defensive coordinator to apply blitzes...etc.

Its already hard enough for teams to stop Justin 1 on 1, they have to double team him a lot, now imagine a big NT that eats up bodies inside and somewhere, you're going to have guys free, either Brooks or Smith or both, the offense can only block so many people, either that or they have to go to much bigger formations and limit the amount of receivers going downfield. Eitherway it is a win for the defense.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=4701183
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
A good NT makes s**tty linebackers look decent, a good NT makes great linebackers look absolutely ridiculous.

You know what's ridiculous?

Being the only team in the NFL that can play nickel coverage with two defensive linemen and four linebackers!

The utter dominance of Willis & Bowman allow us to do unique things on defense
Originally posted by nickbradley:
You know what's ridiculous?

Being the only team in the NFL that can play nickel coverage with two defensive linemen and four linebackers!

The utter dominance of Willis & Bowman allow us to do unique things on defense

And having a good NT only helps the defense as a whole, with the playmakers this team has, having a big, quality NT that eats up blockers and allows linebackers and defensive backs to attack is huge, especially considering how many time teams have gashed the 49ers up the middle, its all about creating mismatches, you can't really improve too much on the defense, not at linebacker, not at DE, not at safety.....possibly at cornerback, but NT is HUGE, that is the weakest spot on the defense right now. You want a guy that can consistently occupy 2 blockers, doing that, with the quality of linebackers, will make running up the middle essentially impossible.


Looking at teams in the division such as Seattle and St Louis, a top NT will be the biggest improvement this team can make in regards to facing those teams next season. In a 3-4 defense, the NT is arguably the most important piece, the one who makes everything go, which is one of the reasons why 3-4 teams are constantly stockpiling or looking for quality NT prospects.


Its a thankless position, you can read through this thread and see how many are ready to overlook a quality starting NT and instead go with a backup 3-4 DE, just because, however it doesn't make it any less crucial.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 19, 2013 at 12:14 PM ]
A dominant nose like Wilfork, who can push the pocket on any kind of down is a major plus.
i like prospects some the draft, particularely missouri southern state brandon williams who is a hard worker, strong, double gap linemen, excels in run defense plus gives a pass rush threat.
It's also a position of great importance for us. I'm not opposed. We should generally be taking the best player. If that's a NT then I'm fine with that. I'd like to get people who can contribute. We have lot's of picks this year and few holes. It will be an interesting draft.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
And having a good NT only helps the defense as a whole, with the playmakers this team has, having a big, quality NT that eats up blockers and allows linebackers and defensive backs to attack is huge, especially considering how many time teams have gashed the 49ers up the middle, its all about creating mismatches, you can't really improve too much on the defense, not at linebacker, not at DE, not at safety.....possibly at cornerback, but NT is HUGE, that is the weakest spot on the defense right now. You want a guy that can consistently occupy 2 blockers, doing that, with the quality of linebackers, will make running up the middle essentially impossible.


Looking at teams in the division such as Seattle and St Louis, a top NT will be the biggest improvement this team can make in regards to facing those teams next season. In a 3-4 defense, the NT is arguably the most important piece, the one who makes everything go, which is one of the reasons why 3-4 teams are constantly stockpiling or looking for quality NT prospects.


Its a thankless position, you can read through this thread and see how many are ready to overlook a quality starting NT and instead go with a backup 3-4 DE, just because, however it doesn't make it any less crucial.

That's a pipe dream -- NTs often bust and the ones who are good are late bloomers. Alan Branch is a good example. If I remember correctly, the 'zone was in love with Branch, and he was the two-gapper we all dreamed of. He failed at the nose in AZ, but he's matured and is a very good two-gap DT in a 4-3 defense.
Couple of points.

A good NT is crucial to the 3-4. Obv. By threatening to beat the C and collapse the pocket he has to pull the G. This is the most threatening situation you can put an Oline in.

Sopo can't beat the center. He can cover the centers A gaps so hes good on the run but he doesn't draw the guard which opens the guards to double where ever the rush is coming from.

He basically nullifies the pass rush with his inability to beat the center.

The defense fails wiith no pass rush especially against a team like GB plus Sopo has been playing about 25% of the snaps but GB runs a lot of 3 receiver sets so they have to throw in a nickle and take out the NT.

So I don't think Fangio wants to play without a NT or that were shifting to a different alignment. I think hes just adjusting because hes smart.

I think Sopo has to go this offseason or take a huge cut. If he doesnt want to take a cut he can try his luck elsewhere. I personally would love to see us draft a NT like Jenkins or move up for Hankins. A young and explosive NT would revitalize the aging line and would be a great piece for the future of the front 7. I really don't like the ideal of drafting a DE either especially Shariff Floyd. Hes going to sit on the bench. He would be behind every other guy that can play DE on the depth chart. I would much rather them draft a tweener DE if they cant get a NT.
Not necessarily skeptical about if, but I would rather re-sign one of our vets (Ice or RJF) to a 3 or 4 year deal. Then behind the veteran, develop Ian Williams, Tony Jerrod-Eddie (possibly) and/or a rookie prospect like Larry Black Jr. that we could get in the later rounds. Just not convinced you can throw in a rookie NT (no matter how big, strong and talented) on this team and in this scheme and have them be successful.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Not necessarily skeptical about if, but I would rather re-sign one of our vets (Ice or RJF) to a 3 or 4 year deal. Then behind the veteran, develop Ian Williams, Tony Jerrod-Eddie (possibly) and/or a rookie prospect like Larry Black Jr. that we could get in the later rounds. Just not convinced you can throw in a rookie NT (no matter how big, strong and talented) on this team and in this scheme and have them be successful.

Whoever got thrown in he would be to the same effect as Sopo with youth and upside.
DONT WANT BIG ICE TO GO!!!!!!!! Please dont go!!!!!!!