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Is anyone else skeptical of drafting an NT high?

  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,436
Originally posted by SanFranFanfrmVa:
Kolohe, I don't see us taking a safety in the first round unless they're just absolutely in love with Matt Elam from Florida. I fully expect at the least Goldson will be frachised again.

Baalke does things that are unexpected don't count anything out.
DE, and Rush OLB are way more important right now but the 49ers have the luxury of going BPA for need positions during this "weak" draft.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SanFranFanfrmVa:
Kolohe, I don't see us taking a safety in the first round unless they're just absolutely in love with Matt Elam from Florida. I fully expect at the least Goldson will be frachised again.

Baalke does things that are unexpected don't count anything out.

at this point, the only pick that would surprise me is a kicker.
Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
I hate issac and have wanted him replaced since we draft him... Justin though that's some big shoes to replace. And rodgers i think cul is the future for him, and possible draftie for 3rd cb unless we keep cox who i like

This has been one of the best run defenses over the last 2 years, and that doesn't happen if you're not getting great play from your NT. But you "hate" Sopoaga??? Sorry doot but that doesn't make any football sense.
Part of the reason why our run defense isn't as great as last year is because Soap isn't playing as well as he was - and if we're going to shut down the run game by playing 6 and 7 in the box - then we do need a NT who can occupy two guys consistently. Way too many times Willis and Bowman are getting blocked instead of coming up cleanly to make a tackle.

A good NT can turn a good run defense into a great one. If we can land an impact NT in the draft or FA - I do hope we pull a trigger. We need a 5-technique DE as well. We're awfully thin there - and are very lucky to have not lost Justin Smith for the playoffs.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
I hate issac and have wanted him replaced since we draft him... Justin though that's some big shoes to replace. And rodgers i think cul is the future for him, and possible draftie for 3rd cb unless we keep cox who i like

This has been one of the best run defenses over the last 2 years, and that doesn't happen if you're not getting great play from your NT. But you "hate" Sopoaga??? Sorry doot but that doesn't make any football sense.

This. NT is so important in the run game and if we're to keep our identity of a smash mouth defense - we better make sure LBs are protected by a darn good NT.
I am down with the OP. With more teams running hury up offenses (eagles now pats) we need lighter DL that can stay on for 70 snaps a game. A 3-4 DE carries a lot more importance (in my booke) than a NT. I think the niners can get by with RJF and or soap with Ian Williams as back up NT. get a stud 3-4 DE and maybe another NT in FA to compete.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by SanFranFanfrmVa:
Kolohe, I don't see us taking a safety in the first round unless they're just absolutely in love with Matt Elam from Florida. I fully expect at the least Goldson will be frachised again.

Baalke does things that are unexpected don't count anything out.

I agree, he's man of mystery. I also don't see Goldson getting franchised again.
How can anyone think DE/OLB are more important at this time. Both Soap and RJF are free agents leaving the roster without any DT with playing experience. McDonald and Smith are both signed for next season.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
As a result of all this, my priority order goes like this:

1. 5 technique DE
2. WR
3. Safety
4. TE/H-back
5. OG/C
6. NT
7. CB
8. Swing OT
9. Kicker
10. QB

Swing Tackle is much more of a priroity than 8 bro. I would say 4 or 5
Originally posted by Frisco69ers:
Swing Tackle is much more of a priroity than 8 bro. I would say 4 or 5

Not much difference between 4 and 10.

TE may be a non concern if Walker is re signed
Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:
This. NT is so important in the run game and if we're to keep our identity of a smash mouth defense - we better make sure LBs are protected by a darn good NT.

This, people are insane if they don't think that every 3-4 team wants a stud NT, its the crucial element to the defense as a whole, protects the linebackers, occupies blockers, collapses the pocket....etc...etc. One of the reasons it hasn't been a big deal for the 49ers is that they've had stellar talent at linebacker and have had needs at other areas but realistically, Soap is a middling NT, Pro Football Focus has him ranked almost dead last amongst NFL NT's, people assume that the NT gets limited snaps because of the system but never consider that it is as a result of the overall talent. If you add a guy that can actually dominate and make plays, he'll get into the game, period.


A high quality NT with great linebackers behind him is even a scarier proposition as it limits teams being able to run up the middle where this team has been gashed at times and pushes the running game to the outside where the linebackers can dominate. I would LOVE to see this team drafting a quality starting NT rather than reaching for a 3-4 DE that may or may not be a good fit for this team.


If they spend a top pick on a 3-4 DE, I want a guy that will replace Justin Smith eventually, however most of the potential 3-4 DE's in this draft more closely resemble Ray McDonald, and there's nothing wrong with that, but in that case, give me the NT who can start from Day 1.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 19, 2013 at 11:35 AM ]
Good post & comments.

DE all the way for me and Flloyd look very good. That said, I think we should grab a NT by the 3th round since we have so many picks. Soap is slowing down and an effective NT like Ngatta[sp] could add an improved spact to the DLine.

DE is a NEED and frankly if we went DE, DT I'd be happy - depending who they were of course.
Originally posted by 9erred:
I am down with the OP. With more teams running hury up offenses (eagles now pats) we need lighter DL that can stay on for 70 snaps a game. A 3-4 DE carries a lot more importance (in my booke) than a NT. I think the niners can get by with RJF and or soap with Ian Williams as back up NT. get a stud 3-4 DE and maybe another NT in FA to compete.

That's the problem, there is none in this draft short of perhaps Richardson who will be gone well before the 49ers pick.

Like I said, more of the so-called 3-4 DE prospects resemble Ray McDonald rather than Justin Smith. You've got primarily guys with very limited pass rush ability, solid run-stoppers, but limited ability to get to the quarterback. Anyone expecting pretty much any of these guys to be an adequate replacement for Justin Smith are going to be sorely disappointed.


Coming out of college, Justin Smith was a 6-4, 270 pound defensive end running a 4.6 40, able to stop the run AND rush the passer with a variety of moves combined with an absolute non-stop motor and tremendous work ethic.


I'd rather take a chance on a smaller defensive end who can rush the passer, hopefully growing into the role vs just picking some guy because he happens to be big but isn't a complete player overall.


As far as NT, unless Goldson isn't re-signed, I see that as THE priority, that is the single biggest move this team could make to improve the defense as a whole, there's no other position that you could swap out, short of finding a Sherman-esque CB in the late rounds, that would have as much of an impact as finding a high quality starting NT that would free up Bowman and Willis to go and make big plays.
Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Good post & comments.

DE all the way for me and Flloyd look very good. That said, I think we should grab a NT by the 3th round since we have so many picks. Soap is slowing down and an effective NT like Ngatta[sp] could add an improved spact to the DLine.

DE is a NEED and frankly if we went DE, DT I'd be happy - depending who they were of course.

So you're going to take a backup DE with no pass rush ability in the first round and look for a 1st round quality starting NT in the 3rd round???






The whole point of drafting a 3-4 DE is to find someone with a similar skillset as Justin Smith to replace him eventually....drafting a guy just because he's a 3-4 DE is absurd. Having two Ray McDonald's still doesn't equal Justin Smith. I'd much more happily wait a year for some legit prospects to emerge, even if you have to trade up, then take a guy because he's there. The 49ers have 2 quality DE's, if Soap leaves, they'll basically be left with Williams and no mas at NT. The position represents the biggest possible improvement on the defense from this year to next.


If they were going to draft a 3-4 DE, last year was the time to do it, they could have had their pick of either Derek Wolfe or Kendall Reyes, both outstanding prospects, both with pass-rush ability, non-stop motors...etc...etc. Instead they took a 150 pound project WR.


I think in this draft you take someone like Jesse Williams or Jonathan Jenkins, set them up as the starter and go for depth with the rest of the picks. Of course that said, Baalke will probably draft a TE or a Center in the first round.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 19, 2013 at 11:51 AM ]