There are 171 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

49oz2SuperBowl Early Mock Draft

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I think a 3-4 DE is far more important and I think Floyd is a bettter player than Jenkins. You dont agree - thats fine. You saw what happened when Justin Smith went down. Our defense suffered a LOT. So yes... I would prefer a 3-4 DE even if that person rotates in.-Yes, if you can find ANOTHER Justin Smith, but there's not one here, other than perhaps Hunt. Floyd is better suited to the inside, lacks quickness on the outside and is a s**t pass-rusher. The 49ers need a guy eventually to replace Justin Smith, that guy is not here, not this year. Also, forget that if Soap walks, the 49ers don't have a starter at the NT, the most IMPORTANT position in a 3-4 defense. Soap is not great shakes, he's played poorly at times this year, but without him you'd be going from bad to worse. If it comes down to drafting a backup DE with the ceiling of Ray McDonald or a starter at NT, the latter becomes the most important by far.

As for Thomas, I said I liked him... but not in the 2nd. If he is there in the 3rd I would consider him. I would prefer a CB or WR in the 2nd or trade up for someone like Jesse Williams if its possible. He is a better NT than Jenkins in my opinion.-Jesse Williams likely will be gone before the 49ers first pick even. There's no reason to take a CB or WR in the 2nd when you have plenty of similar prospects in the 3rd round to boot. In the 2nd would be a good time to take a guy like Thomas or a safety such as Rambo.

Mathieu - not even sure he is that good. Again, would not touch. Personal issues, drug problems, and character issues are enough for me to let someone else have him.-Talent is talent and Mathieu's talent is undeniable, he's a true playmaker, would be a good slot corner and could also play special teams, he's a bargain at that point in the draft.

So.. I am not crazy about this. I have seen other mocks in here that I like much more.

....

LOL You would think you are Maddog or something. You love the draft.. good for you. I want the Niners to select a DL first for sure. If its Jenkins, ok. I just have other preferences.

I would prefer something like:
1st Jessie Williams, DE/DT ( or Jenkins or Floyd or even better Sheldon Richardson if he was somehow there)
2nd Jordan Poyer CB
3A Stedmon Bailey WR
3B Brandon Jenkins OLB
4 Joseph Fauria TE
5) DJ Swearinger S
6) Dustin Hopkins K
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
LOL You would think you are Maddog or something. You love the draft.. good for you. I want the Niners to select a DL first for sure. If its Jenkins, ok. I just have other preferences.

I would prefer something like:
1st Jessie Williams, DE/DT ( or Jenkins or Floyd or even better Sheldon Richardson if he was somehow there)
2nd Jordan Poyer CB
3A Stedmon Bailey WR
3B Brandon Jenkins OLB
4 Joseph Fauria TE
5) DJ Swearinger S
6) Dustin Hopkins K

The point is, you're not even defending those preferences? Why do you want a 3-4 DE? Why do you assume that all of a sudden you're going to draft some stud guy that will light the world up? Who is this stud that you speak of? This place seems to really boost the group-think up to another level.

"Justin Smith got injured? Draft another Justin Smith ASAP......there's no Justin Smith available? Well draft a 3-4 DE ASAP.....the 3-4 DE's prospects aren't all that great?.....well draft one anyways, it'll make me feel better inside."

I'm telling you the value simply isn't there, especially for a 3-4 DE. For teams running a 4-3 defense, in need of defensive tackles, this is a GREAT year for that, but there were much better 3-4 DE prospects last year at the spot the 49ers are picking. A guy like Kendall Reyes could easily have been developed to start for the 49ers a couple seasons down the road, hell he was starting for San Diego, but they missed on him last year. Drafting a guy just "because" is how busts happen. That would have been akin to the 49ers drafting Blaine Gabbert instead of Aldon Smith because they had a "need" at quarterback and that is what the rest of the world, and hell even people on the Webzone were saying.


The 49ers need to replace Justin Smith at some point, but just blindly drafting a guy in the hopes that he'll develop more fluid hips, develop pass rush moves and all of a sudden develop better quickness and awareness....that's a tall order. Next year there will be considerably better 3-4 DE prospects overall.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 19, 2013 at 5:41 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
The point is, you're not even defending those preferences? Why do you want a 3-4 DE? Why do you assume that all of a sudden you're going to draft some stud guy that will light the world up? Who is this stud that you speak of? This place seems to really boost the group-think up to another level.

"Justin Smith got injured? Draft another Justin Smith ASAP......there's no Justin Smith available? Well draft a 3-4 DE ASAP.....the 3-4 DE's prospects aren't all that great?.....well draft one anyways, it'll make me feel better inside."

I'm telling you the value simply isn't there, especially for a 3-4 DE. For teams running a 4-3 defense, in need of defensive tackles, this is a GREAT year for that, but there were much better 3-4 DE prospects last year at the spot the 49ers are picking. A guy like Kendall Reyes could easily have been developed to start for the 49ers a couple seasons down the road, hell he was starting for San Diego, but they missed on him last year. Drafting a guy just "because" is how busts happen. That would have been akin to the 49ers drafting Blaine Gabbert instead of Aldon Smith because they had a "need" at quarterback and that is what the rest of the world, and hell even people on the Webzone were saying.


The 49ers need to replace Justin Smith at some point, but just blindly drafting a guy in the hopes that he'll develop more fluid hips, develop pass rush moves and all of a sudden develop better quickness and awareness....that's a tall order. Next year there will be considerably better 3-4 DE prospects overall.

Seriously, your arrogance on the draft is becoming annoying. IN MY OPINION, the Niners have a huge need for a 3-4 DE. IN MY OPINION, it is the #1 need on this team. I didnt mention a STUD. I said that I want the Niners to select a DL with their first pick. If Baalke decides to take a NT thats fine. I just want this team to improve the depth across the line and taking 2 would be fine with me.

As for the rest of the picks.. well I like my choices better.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Seriously, your arrogance on the draft is becoming annoying. IN MY OPINION, the Niners have a huge need for a 3-4 DE. IN MY OPINION, it is the #1 need on this team. I didnt mention a STUD. I said that I want the Niners to select a DL with their first pick. If Baalke decides to take a NT thats fine. I just want this team to improve the depth across the line and taking 2 would be fine with me.

As for the rest of the picks.. well I like my choices better.
Defend your choices, in your opinion, explain why a particular 3-4 DE should be picked in the 1st round, or any of the other players you've selected. I can support the players I like and give cogent reasons on why I think they'd be good for this team, all you are doing is ranting with your fingers in your ears, shouting "3-4 DE, 3-4 DE" without give the slightest reasoning as to why a certain guy would fit in that position or why a backup 3-4 DE is a more urgent need than a 3-4 NT.

Calling others arrogant because they have the temerity to actually defend their position when you are simply doing the equivalent of stomping your feet and pouting doesn't make a lick of sense.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Seriously, your arrogance on the draft is becoming annoying. IN MY OPINION, the Niners have a huge need for a 3-4 DE. IN MY OPINION, it is the #1 need on this team. I didnt mention a STUD. I said that I want the Niners to select a DL with their first pick. If Baalke decides to take a NT thats fine. I just want this team to improve the depth across the line and taking 2 would be fine with me.

As for the rest of the picks.. well I like my choices better.
Defend your choices, in your opinion, explain why a particular 3-4 DE should be picked in the 1st round, or any of the other players you've selected. I can support the players I like and give cogent reasons on why I think they'd be good for this team, all you are doing is ranting with your fingers in your ears, shouting "3-4 DE, 3-4 DE" without give the slightest reasoning as to why a certain guy would fit in that position or why a backup 3-4 DE is a more urgent need than a 3-4 NT.

Calling others arrogant because they have the temerity to actually defend their position when you are simply doing the equivalent of stomping your feet and pouting doesn't make a lick of sense.

You are being obnoxious. I have said now at least 2 times that I want the Niners to select a DL. If they select Jesse Williams to play NT I would be fine with it. I like him a lot. I just wasnt impressed that much with Jenkins . Not everyone has to agree with your opinion.

As for 3-4 DE.. yes I do believe that is a critical need for this team. We have nothing there and Smith and McDonald need to get less snaps to be great at the end of games. Floyd has played DE, can take on blockers, and would be a huge upgrade.

NFL Draft on Floyd.......
He has been an incredibly important and versatile defender up front for Florida, playing both one and two-gap techniques at defensive end, one and three-technique, and as a true zero-technique nose tackle. While Floyd is rough around the edges and will take time to develop as a two-gapper, the Gator's quickness, athleticism, and scheme versatility will make him coveted by 4-3 and 3-4 teams alike in the first round.


Nice chatting. I am done with you now.
[ Edited by Ninerjohn on Jan 19, 2013 at 7:56 PM ]
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
You are being obnoxious. I have said now at least 2 times that I want the Niners to select a DL. If they select Jesse Williams to play NT I would be fine with it. I like him a lot. I just wasnt impressed that much with Jenkins . Not everyone has to agree with your opinion.

As for 3-4 DE.. yes I do believe that is a critical need for this team. We have nothing there and Smith and McDonald need to get less snaps to be great at the end of games. Floyd has played DE, can take on blockers, and would be a huge upgrade.

NFL Draft on Floyd.......
He has been an incredibly important and versatile defender up front for Florida, playing both one and two-gap techniques at defensive end, one and three-technique, and as a true zero-technique nose tackle. While Floyd is rough around the edges and will take time to develop as a two-gapper, the Gator's quickness, athleticism, and scheme versatility will make him coveted by 4-3 and 3-4 teams alike in the first round.

I don't disagree that this team needs a 3-4 DE, without Justin Smith this looks like a poverty defense, but I also don't think there's anyone worth drafting that would adequately replace him. If its all about adding depth, Baker Steinkuhler in the 4th round is a great choice, he's got prototypical 3-4 DE size, NFL lineage, high motor, would be a good backup and guy to rotate in.

The problem with Floyd, and why I think he'll ultimately end up in the 2nd round is that he's limited in many aspects, he struggles to get around the tackle, he doesn't have any real pass rush ability, anytime he gets double-teamed he basically freezes up, he plays with an inconsistent drive and his best performances came when he was playing on the inside. He truly looks like an ideal 4-3 DT. He's also highly raw, but so was Aldon, the difference is that Aldon with his size, length and agility fit the 3-4 OLB very well, he has the same traits as other successful top OLB's. Floyd doesn't have many of the traits of successful 3-4 DE's like Justin Smith, Ngata, JJ Watt..etc. I think he'll be a pretty good 4-3 defensive tackle but will struggle at the next level if forced to play on the outside. Of course, the 49ers scouting department could look at the situation entirely differently but I would be pretty shocked if they end up going with Floyd.

To replace Justin, I want a true star, I want a guy who can stop the run, rush the passer, knock offensive tackles on their ass, demand double-teams...etc....unfortunately, there's only really a couple guys I see that could fit that role, and even then, I think mostly Sheldon Richardson could fit that description, but he's a Top 20 pick so he won't be around when the 49ers are up. In that case, I'll take a starter at NT, another cornerback, a safety(especially if Goldson doesn't re-sign), I just don't see good value at 3-4 DE in the first round without Richardson.

The exception and ultimate wildcard is Margus Hunt. He looks like an absolute beast, has pass-rush skills, is an athletic freak, the downsides are that he's pretty raw and he's going to be 26 years old at the start of next season but if people want a Justin Smith type player, Hunt is the closest thing you may find that would be available to the 49ers. Depending on how he does in offseason workouts, he may move up the boards pretty quickly as teams will covet his size but if he's for real, his ceiling is pretty ridiculously high, even if you realistically only get him for about 6-7 years, he's still very much worth it. If the 49ers are down with drafting Hunt, I would not complain, the potential is there for him to be a tremendously dominant player that might even take away McDonald's starting spot on the line.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 19, 2013 at 8:08 PM ]
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
I would be really happy with this mock, but i wouldnt draft OLB that high. People forget that we still have Haralson, which is extremely underrated for what he adds to the team. I would draft one later as a developmental pick, and take DE or safety in the second. I ould also take Lattimore over your RB to sit and develope for a year if he as there, which i think he will be.

But i would be happy with this draft. good job.

This.

We need OLB guys in the rotation, but only to give Brooks and Smith a breather so I don't see us taking one that high. We have Cam Johnson who is developing as well as Darius Fleming on the mend. I'm not expecting these guys to come in and be world beaters, but fact is, any linebackers we draft right now would be mostly for special teams value because they won't see the field that often, barring injury. If we do draft one (and we should), it should be a later pick.

The same goes for running back. Unless the back provides special teams value, they won't play much more than Brandon Jacobs this season. With Frank Gore, LeMichael James, and Kendall Hunter (who will be back ), we are set at running back for the next two years. If anything, your pick of Marcus Lattimore makes a little more sense because of the talent, and being afforded the opportunity to sit for a year and heal.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
This.

We need OLB guys in the rotation, but only to give Brooks and Smith a breather so I don't see us taking one that high. We have Cam Johnson who is developing as well as Darius Fleming on the mend. I'm not expecting these guys to come in and be world beaters, but fact is, any linebackers we draft right now would be mostly for special teams value because they won't see the field that often, barring injury. If we do draft one (and we should), it should be a later pick.

The same goes for running back. Unless the back provides special teams value, they won't play much more than Brandon Jacobs this season. With Frank Gore, LeMichael James, and Kendall Hunter (who will be back ), we are set at running back for the next two years. If anything, your pick of Marcus Lattimore makes a little more sense because of the talent, and being afforded the opportunity to sit for a year and heal.

I feel that taking Chase Thomas or someone like Lemonier would be pretty well justified, especially Thomas who can essentially backup 2 positions at once, he can play OLB and ILB and would allow for more regular substitutions, instead of Aldon playing every down, sub him out regularly and let him stay fresh towards the end of games while you have a guy in there who can play effectively, can drop into coverage, can pass rush, can stop the run..etc.



In regards to RB, there's no guarantee that Hunter is available at the start of next season, nor that he will be performing the same, Gore is going to be 30, that's nearing the expiration date for running backs. I've always felt its better to prepare ahead of time than wait for the other shoe to fall. If you go into next season and Hunter still isn't ready or isn't performing well and Gore gets injured....your new starting RB is LaMichael James, which needless to say,is not an ideal situation. I'd be all for taking a RB in Round 3 or below. I particularly like Dennis Johnson of Arkansas but there are several solid prospects out there.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 19, 2013 at 8:55 PM ]
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
You are being obnoxious. I have said now at least 2 times that I want the Niners to select a DL. If they select Jesse Williams to play NT I would be fine with it. I like him a lot. I just wasnt impressed that much with Jenkins . Not everyone has to agree with your opinion.

As for 3-4 DE.. yes I do believe that is a critical need for this team. We have nothing there and Smith and McDonald need to get less snaps to be great at the end of games. Floyd has played DE, can take on blockers, and would be a huge upgrade.

NFL Draft on Floyd.......
He has been an incredibly important and versatile defender up front for Florida, playing both one and two-gap techniques at defensive end, one and three-technique, and as a true zero-technique nose tackle. While Floyd is rough around the edges and will take time to develop as a two-gapper, the Gator's quickness, athleticism, and scheme versatility will make him coveted by 4-3 and 3-4 teams alike in the first round.

I don't disagree that this team needs a 3-4 DE, without Justin Smith this looks like a poverty defense, but I also don't think there's anyone worth drafting that would adequately replace him. If its all about adding depth, Baker Steinkuhler in the 4th round is a great choice, he's got prototypical 3-4 DE size, NFL lineage, high motor, would be a good backup and guy to rotate in.

The problem with Floyd, and why I think he'll ultimately end up in the 2nd round is that he's limited in many aspects, he struggles to get around the tackle, he doesn't have any real pass rush ability, anytime he gets double-teamed he basically freezes up, he plays with an inconsistent drive and his best performances came when he was playing on the inside. He truly looks like an ideal 4-3 DT. He's also highly raw, but so was Aldon, the difference is that Aldon with his size, length and agility fit the 3-4 OLB very well, he has the same traits as other successful top OLB's. Floyd doesn't have many of the traits of successful 3-4 DE's like Justin Smith, Ngata, JJ Watt..etc. I think he'll be a pretty good 4-3 defensive tackle but will struggle at the next level if forced to play on the outside. Of course, the 49ers scouting department could look at the situation entirely differently but I would be pretty shocked if they end up going with Floyd.

To replace Justin, I want a true star, I want a guy who can stop the run, rush the passer, knock offensive tackles on their ass, demand double-teams...etc....unfortunately, there's only really a couple guys I see that could fit that role, and even then, I think mostly Sheldon Richardson could fit that description, but he's a Top 20 pick so he won't be around when the 49ers are up. In that case, I'll take a starter at NT, another cornerback, a safety(especially if Goldson doesn't re-sign), I just don't see good value at 3-4 DE in the first round without Richardson.

The exception and ultimate wildcard is Margus Hunt. He looks like an absolute beast, has pass-rush skills, is an athletic freak, the downsides are that he's pretty raw and he's going to be 26 years old at the start of next season but if people want a Justin Smith type player, Hunt is the closest thing you may find that would be available to the 49ers. Depending on how he does in offseason workouts, he may move up the boards pretty quickly as teams will covet his size but if he's for real, his ceiling is pretty ridiculously high, even if you realistically only get him for about 6-7 years, he's still very much worth it. If the 49ers are down with drafting Hunt, I would not complain, the potential is there for him to be a tremendously dominant player that might even take away McDonald's starting spot on the line.

You have used Lande and Kiper's views to support another of your takes. Well... just saw this. I guess he agrees with my take on Floyd. I dont know if the Niners will draft him or not but not everyone shares your opinion including people that do it for a living. Not to say they dont make mistakes as they do. Just saying its not some stupid pick like you seem to think

30. San Francisco 49ers: Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida

Kiper's give: "At some point, San Francisco has to assume that the agelessJustin Smith might finally need a breather, and Floyd is the type of versatile defensive lineman who profiles well as a 3-4 defensive end. ... Like Smith, he's a powerful player who can push the pocket with power and will free up other pass-rushers, while making tackles for loss on his own."

Sando's take: Kiper is preaching to the choir here. The 49ers entered the 2012 season with the oldest starting defensive line in the league. Smith turns 34 in September and will need surgery on his injured elbow and triceps this offseason. The 49ers tried to address this position in the 2008 draft, but their selection of Kentwan Balmer did not work out. Ricky Jean-Francois has value as a versatile backup. Ian Williams and Tony Jerod-Eddie are the other backups on the defensive line. It's tough to envision the 49ers targeting another position in the first round, at least from a need stand point. The 49ers have not drafted a true defensive lineman in the past three drafts.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
You have used Lande and Kiper's views to support another of your takes. Well... just saw this. I guess he agrees with my take on Floyd. I dont know if the Niners will draft him or not but not everyone shares your opinion including people that do it for a living. Not to say they dont make mistakes as they do. Just saying its not some stupid pick like you seem to think

30. San Francisco 49ers: Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida

Kiper's give: "At some point, San Francisco has to assume that the agelessJustin Smith might finally need a breather, and Floyd is the type of versatile defensive lineman who profiles well as a 3-4 defensive end. ... Like Smith, he's a powerful player who can push the pocket with power and will free up other pass-rushers, while making tackles for loss on his own."

Sando's take: Kiper is preaching to the choir here. The 49ers entered the 2012 season with the oldest starting defensive line in the league. Smith turns 34 in September and will need surgery on his injured elbow and triceps this offseason. The 49ers tried to address this position in the 2008 draft, but their selection of Kentwan Balmer did not work out. Ricky Jean-Francois has value as a versatile backup. Ian Williams and Tony Jerod-Eddie are the other backups on the defensive line. It's tough to envision the 49ers targeting another position in the first round, at least from a need stand point. The 49ers have not drafted a true defensive lineman in the past three drafts.


Still NT is a much bigger need than 3-4 DE......49ers would be looking for a backup and eventual starter at DE.....they would likely be looking for a starter at NT. Today showed the value that a dominant NT possesses, Soap was getting locked up 1 on 1 with the center for most of the game, in a 3-4, your NT has to have the ability to at least regularly engage multiple blockers.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
You have used Lande and Kiper's views to support another of your takes. Well... just saw this. I guess he agrees with my take on Floyd. I dont know if the Niners will draft him or not but not everyone shares your opinion including people that do it for a living. Not to say they dont make mistakes as they do. Just saying its not some stupid pick like you seem to think

30. San Francisco 49ers: Sharrif Floyd, DT, Florida

Kiper's give: "At some point, San Francisco has to assume that the agelessJustin Smith might finally need a breather, and Floyd is the type of versatile defensive lineman who profiles well as a 3-4 defensive end. ... Like Smith, he's a powerful player who can push the pocket with power and will free up other pass-rushers, while making tackles for loss on his own."

Sando's take: Kiper is preaching to the choir here. The 49ers entered the 2012 season with the oldest starting defensive line in the league. Smith turns 34 in September and will need surgery on his injured elbow and triceps this offseason. The 49ers tried to address this position in the 2008 draft, but their selection of Kentwan Balmer did not work out. Ricky Jean-Francois has value as a versatile backup. Ian Williams and Tony Jerod-Eddie are the other backups on the defensive line. It's tough to envision the 49ers targeting another position in the first round, at least from a need stand point. The 49ers have not drafted a true defensive lineman in the past three drafts.


Still NT is a much bigger need than 3-4 DE......49ers would be looking for a backup and eventual starter at DE.....they would likely be looking for a starter at NT. Today showed the value that a dominant NT possesses, Soap was getting locked up 1 on 1 with the center for most of the game, in a 3-4, your NT has to have the ability to at least regularly engage multiple blockers.

And if Jesse Williams is there I would take him in the first. If not, and Floyd is available I would have no problem with him being selected and then taking a NT later on.