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MD was right

Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Oh, I remember you posting this AFTER the draft. And its correct that after the draft you were higher on Watt than many others.

But BEFORE the draft you had Watt "ranked" #18.

Now, without the lecture about how a big board is just a ranking of where players might be picked, not a listing according to their respective abilities, please explain how you would project Watt to be taken at #18 overall when he was actually, in your opinion, at least the 5th best player available.

Because even though big boards are not listings of players according to talent, a player's talent and ability is unquestionably a big part, a major consideration, in determining where that player should be "ranked" according to potential selection.

In other words, if someone really knew that Watt was gonna be as good as he's shown to date, he would have been "ranked" a top 5 player, if not #1 overall--the talent and ability he's shown since the draft makes him that good. There's got to be a number of other teams that picked before #11 in that draft that would love to have him now.

Sorry, but but your "ranking" of Watt as #18 on your big board BEFORE the draft is much more convincing and telling evidence of how you actually ranked Watt's talent and ability at that time than some POST DRAFT hypothetical, make believe "redo" or "re-draft."

Still don't get it. I had Cam Newton projected to go number one, but he was not a top ten BPA pick in my opinion. My projection of him drafted at one did not match my personal belief that he was the best player in the draft. I believed Watt would be drafted in the 18th slot due to team needs. 3-4 DE's have a tendency to slide on draft day. However, to me, as seen in the numerous posted bumps, he graded much higher and was a top 5 best player available on my board.

See my post on "Your 49ers Top 7" thread, which has Watt in early March 2011 as my 6th best overall.
[ Edited by MadDog49er on Oct 12, 2012 at 1:18 PM ]
This is not worth a thread. He was right Watt is a good player, I don't think that was a big secret. He was dead wrong about what counted which was Aldon Smith and the 2011 49ers
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Still don't get it. I had Cam Newton projected to go number one, but he was not a top ten BPA pick in my opinion. My projection of him drafted at one did not match my personal belief that he was the best player in the draft. I believed Watt would be drafted in the 18th slot due to team needs. 3-4 DE's have a tendency to slide on draft day. However, to me, as seen in the numerous posted bumps, he graded much higher and was a top 5 best player available on my board.

See my post on "Your 49ers Top 7" thread, which has Watt in early March 2011 as my 6th best overall.
You didn't think Cam Newton had, at a minimum, top ten talent and ability?
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
You didn't think Cam Newton had, at a minimum, top ten talent and ability?

He isn't IMO
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
You didn't think Cam Newton had, at a minimum, top ten talent and ability?

He isn't IMO

Cam is getting exposed this year
  • buck
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Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
You didn't think Cam Newton had, at a minimum, top ten talent and ability?

He isn't IMO

Cam is getting exposed this year

It also might be that his coaching staff is getting exposed.
  • KID9R
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Okay there's a reason why you're bringing this up now and not after they're first year. That's because arguably Aldon Smith had the better rookie year. I agree Watt has had a better first 5 games this year but it's a little early to be calling that we shoulda took 1 over the other. you Also have to look at our needs at the time. How Screwed would we be at OLB if we actually took Watt. and then what? Have McDonald riding the bench half the time?
  • buck
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Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Oh, I remember you posting this AFTER the draft. And its correct that after the draft you were higher on Watt than many others.

But BEFORE the draft you had Watt "ranked" #18.

Now, without the lecture about how a big board is just a ranking of where players might be picked, not a listing according to their respective abilities, please explain how you would project Watt to be taken at #18 overall when he was actually, in your opinion, at least the 5th best player available.

Because even though big boards are not listings of players according to talent, a player's talent and ability is unquestionably a big part, a major consideration, in determining where that player should be "ranked" according to potential selection.

In other words, if someone really knew that Watt was gonna be as good as he's shown to date, he would have been "ranked" a top 5 player, if not #1 overall--the talent and ability he's shown since the draft makes him that good. There's got to be a number of other teams that picked before #11 in that draft that would love to have him now.

Sorry, but but your "ranking" of Watt as #18 on your big board BEFORE the draft is much more convincing and telling evidence of how you actually ranked Watt's talent and ability at that time than some POST DRAFT hypothetical, make believe "redo" or "re-draft."

Still don't get it. I had Cam Newton projected to go number one, but he was not a top ten BPA pick in my opinion. My projection of him drafted at one did not match my personal belief that he was the best player in the draft. I believed Watt would be drafted in the 18th slot due to team needs. 3-4 DE's have a tendency to slide on draft day. However, to me, as seen in the numerous posted bumps, he graded much higher and was a top 5 best player available on my board.

See my post on "Your 49ers Top 7" thread, which has Watt in early March 2011 as my 6th best overall.

Most people in the thread did not include Aldon Smith,

Chief and Genus49 were among the few that included Aldon on their lists.

Sobering to see how far off we were on some of our picks.
Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Originally posted by SunDevilNiner79:
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
You didn't think Cam Newton had, at a minimum, top ten talent and ability?

He isn't IMO

Cam is getting exposed this year

Yes. Other teams are exposing the fact that you can't have a dipstick defensive minded head coach and expect to win by expecting your QB to create magic. Cam is a great player that is being asked to do too much because he's so gifted. Its the same thing that happened to Vick. Just like an athletic QB relys on his escapablilty and play making skills, so too does a HC become dependent on "ad lib" plays. IMHO, of course.
  • Jcool
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Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Yes. Other teams are exposing the fact that you can't have a dipstick defensive minded head coach and expect to win by expecting your QB to create magic. Cam is a great player that is being asked to do too much because he's so gifted. Its the same thing that happened to Vick. Just like an athletic QB relys on his escapablilty and play making skills, so too does a HC become dependent on "ad lib" plays. IMHO, of course.

Carolina needs to start using the running backs they gave so much money to and stop having Cam play QB & RB.
Originally posted by WINiner:
Maddog is one of my least liked posters, and I disagree with him often, but when it comes to Watt and Smith he is 100% correct. Our team would be better with JJ Watt than we are with Aldon Smith.

JJ Watt is going to be a HoF type player, while Aldon is going to be real good, but not the level of Watt. Barring injury of course.

Gotta give credit where it's due.

So you're saying the difference between Watt and Ray McDonald is bigger than the difference between Aldon Smith and Clark Haggans/Eric Bakhtiati?
Who cares? When it comes to draft - he has been right about few things and wrong about many things...just like everybody else.
I still like the Aldon pick. He served more of a need and is a pass rushing 3-4 OLB which is a must for our D. We have 2 very good DEs.
For the record, I wouldn't swap the picks if I could at this point. I think Watt is far more likely to ware down over time than Aldon.