Sketching out our 2013 Draft Needs

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Yep, Jenkins, James and Looney were picked for a reason, Kilgore is likely at Center, so Looney will be needed depth.

Celek wise, it makes sense when you look at bonus he was given compared to Reuland, Reuland got a $1,333k signing bonus, where Celek got a $6k bonus, not saying it means a whole lot, but shows something.

do you mean 1.33K signing bonus or did you mean 13.33K?

Originally posted by nickbradley:

Originally posted by Gore_21:
It's being discussed in a few threads already but here is what I put:

LIKELY NEEDS:
#3 and/or #4 OLB - Depending on if we keep Parys or not we will need 1 or possibly 2 guys. Who knows what Fleming will bring and Cam seems to have nice size but needs to get stronger. Haggins won't be around next year most likely.

3rd Tackle - We don't want to be shuffling Boone around if he is playing well at G. With Person and Hall gone that leaves Wiggins as the only backup T (ps).

5th CB - Brock could be upgraded or get someone good enough to bump everyone down and make the group that much better.

Backup S - Between Spillman and Robinson not sure we have a reliable backup FS or SS.

POSSIBLE NEEDS:
FS - Will Goldson re-sign and are they comfortable with Spillman starting?

C - Goodwin could be replaced after this year. Is Kilgore the future at center?

WR - Ginn and Moss would be FAs leaving Manningham, Crabtree, Jenkins and Williams (maybe Palmer if he makes it on PS all yr). If Moss does well and is back then it might not be a concern.

NT - Sopoaga and Ricky Jean-Francois are free agents. Look for us to re-sign at least one of them. Not sure Ian Williams could start. If we re-sign one or the other and Ian is the backup I would be fairly confident and maybe not get a guy until late. ILB - Only if we lose Larry Grant and/or Tavares Gooden to FA Down the list...

DE - Good backups in RJF, Tukuafu and Dobbs but if RJF is starting NT we could use another guy.

TE - Only need a #2 if we lose Walker to FA. Possibly a #3.

1. we drafted two OLBs last year - they'll be ready next year

2. looney's got a good chance at winning the RG spot next year -- dude is going to be a beast, and everyone knows that. Boone goes back to swing tackle

3. yeah, we need another CB in the first three rounds or so. Brown is a FA after 2013 as well.

4. need a safety for sure - whitner is also a FA in 2013.

5. Looney can play Center -- he's been working with Jeremy Newberry to improve his skills in that area.

6. We have no business drafting WRs for a long time.

7. RJF is also a FA

A lot of it depends on who we resign/sign during free agency. Nav, Dashon, Sop, RJF, Grant, Jacobs, Moss, Ginn, Gooden (?), Haggins,

What is our cap space next year with all the FA AB?
Isn't Whitner signed for the 2013 season, thought he had signed a three year deal with us?

#1 on the list is Nav
#2 is Dashon, however, just like this past off season, they will either tag him or let him walk to use the money to resign Nav.
#3 Sop

Not knowing anything I would say- Safety, OT (if Boone does good why move him back, instead Looney to back up G and maybe even Kilgore starts and we let our current center walk) DT/NT, MLB, TE

I think they won't go after any OLB (at least not in the first five rounds), WR, RB, G, or QB.

I know people on this board like to draft and have known names and drafted players, but I think guys like Ian, Tukuafu, Dobbs, Celak, and Palmer, are good enough if given the chance to start and contribute in the future. Sometimes, you gotta groom the players like a baseball farm club, especially in this cap era. Especially if you believe you have the coaches who can teach. Something else if you got a guys who can't.

Originally posted by sfout:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
Yep, Jenkins, James and Looney were picked for a reason, Kilgore is likely at Center, so Looney will be needed depth.

Celek wise, it makes sense when you look at bonus he was given compared to Reuland, Reuland got a $1,333k signing bonus, where Celek got a $6k bonus, not saying it means a whole lot, but shows something.

do you mean 1.33K signing bonus or did you mean 13.33K?

Yeah 1.333K bonus, should of added the period and not the ,.

Originally posted by Karma:

Originally posted by AB83Rules:
We can't afford Haralson at 2.54M in 2013, plus 300K in bonuses. Right now only 3.5M under, with the cap credit from uncapped year, if we aren't using it now.

Guys like Haralson, Goodwin need to be cut or take pay cut to stay and save cap room. Justin Smith, David Akers and Donte Whitner make sense to redo and extend, and help keep Bowman.

So I don't expect Sopoaga and/or Goldson back. What's more important, Keeping Goldson, Sopoaga or Bowman? Bowman is real deal, Goldson is a bit overrated, and Sopoaga is older, and I don't think he will take much less than the 20M deal he got early in his career.

Moss looks like a keeper if he continues the play. Jacobs depends on how he plays.

RJF is easier to re-sign, same with Delanie. Gooden is easy sign, Grant might leave, Brock won't be back on a RFA tender of 1.26M.

Cap wise, I don't see us keeping everyone, and being tight against the cap, plus we need to pay the draft picks.

I love being able to count on your cap knowledge. You say we are 3.5 mil under the cap for next year. Is that taking a likely increase in the cap into consideration? They only increased the cap a small amount this year because of the lockout/ uncapped year. Does that mean we are likely headed for a bigger increase? That would seem to be the deciding factor for many of our FA priorities.

Is that including the increase in the cap? Agree Pary's need to take a pay cut to stay with us, to much for backup money. I'd like Grant to stay for the right price. RJF will! I think we dump walker. We may part ways with Issac, but he's going to play for someone in califonia to stay close to the islands. I think Good will stay, and add another year or two on the contract, we can just cut him after that. I think Akers, Justin, Donta, will all extend their contracts, and we need too. Goldson, going to get the tag again lol Randy might stay another year depends on him. Also, Ginn that's my ??? I didn't think we get him back this year, but I think he knows he just a return man, and know one is going to pay him big bucks, and he rather stay with a winning team. Brock can be dropped, I like Cox, Chris, Brown and Carlos as the CB core!

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
Is that including the increase in the cap? Agree Pary's need to take a pay cut to stay with us, to much for backup money. I'd like Grant to stay for the right price. RJF will! I think we dump walker. We may part ways with Issac, but he's going to play for someone in califonia to stay close to the islands. I think Good will stay, and add another year or two on the contract, we can just cut him after that. I think Akers, Justin, Donta, will all extend their contracts, and we need too. Goldson, going to get the tag again lol Randy might stay another year depends on him. Also, Ginn that's my ??? I didn't think we get him back this year, but I think he knows he just a return man, and know one is going to pay him big bucks, and he rather stay with a winning team. Brock can be dropped, I like Cox, Chris, Brown and Carlos as the CB core!

The increase is small....very small.

Cant afford another tag on Goldson, seriously.

A few needs from my perspective:
OLB: If we can add another top tier pass rusher, we should make the move. Never stop adding pass rushers to the team. If you can make Aldon a full time player and add a 3rd down pass rusher to take his spot on some downs as well as play with him at the same time, then do it.

CB: You can never have enough good ones or competition. If a special talent is there it only adds competition and or bumps another talented guy down a notch.

Safety: Whitner is on the 2nd of a 3 year deal, and Goldson is a free agent again next off season. One of out top priorities, even if Goldson is back, I don't really trust the depth behind these two starters.

WR: Moss and Ginn are free agents, If we lost Moss and drafted a Stud first round who is about 6'3 or taller to be a red zone/deep threat, I have no problem with it. Also another guy who can return both punts and kicks in the middle rounds would be nice.

O-line: No matter how solid we think we are here, Smith seems to get sacked a lot every single year. This could be Anthony Davis' make or break year and Right guard and center may need a replacement if they feel like guys aren't holding up. Also Staley is a good right tackle if we ever acquired a solid guy who can play LT.

D-line: Never stop drafting pass rushers and this goes for D-line as well. If you see a guy you really like at this position you take him, regardless of is he starts for the first year or two or not. You never want to be forced to see what your line looks like with two or more guys missing games.

TE: Delanie walker keeps dropping passes, and is more of a jumbo sized reciever. I am all for drafting a guy pretty high who is tall, fast, and can both block and catch. It makes the niners that more dangerous when they can concentrate on a few positions like backup tight end and draft guys who will be there for awhile who are productive and add a new element to our offense.

ILB: If the niners don't want a huge amount of money tied up in two ILB's, then they have to draft a competent replacement for one of the two, and hopefully trade one of them for a high draft pick rather then let bowman walk. I hate to say it but that's too much money, and Grant looked solid on the field last year for Willis at times. Both backups are free agents so the niners will be looking at the position in the draft.

Originally posted by WildBill:
A lot of it depends on who we resign/sign during free agency. Nav, Dashon, Sop, RJF, Grant, Jacobs, Moss, Ginn, Gooden (?), Haggins,

What is our cap space next year with all the FA AB?
Isn't Whitner signed for the 2013 season, thought he had signed a three year deal with us?

#1 on the list is Nav
#2 is Dashon, however, just like this past off season, they will either tag him or let him walk to use the money to resign Nav.
#3 Sop

Not knowing anything I would say- Safety, OT (if Boone does good why move him back, instead Looney to back up G and maybe even Kilgore starts and we let our current center walk) DT/NT, MLB, TE

I think they won't go after any OLB (at least not in the first five rounds), WR, RB, G, or QB.

I know people on this board like to draft and have known names and drafted players, but I think guys like Ian, Tukuafu, Dobbs, Celak, and Palmer, are good enough if given the chance to start and contribute in the future. Sometimes, you gotta groom the players like a baseball farm club, especially in this cap era. Especially if you believe you have the coaches who can teach. Something else if you got a guys who can't.

RIght now around 3.5M, but that includes some extra money added on, namely the uncapped year violation credit from the Cowboys and Redskins, plus a $121M cap, could be more, I hope at least 123M.

Whitner is signed for 2013, I was thinking of extensions, which would lower there 2013 salaries, with Akers and Justin Smith also, since all are due to expire after 2013.

I don't see Goldson tagged again, maybe wrong, just will be tight to get that fit under the cap. Right now we are less than a million according to reports, I have us a little different, around 1.2M under, using the 1.5M vet exception on Haralson, and some credits from Haralson's contract, and the 2 injured players(Fleming and Hampton).

no need to sketch out man

Originally posted by jreff22:
OLB before any TE

I think a starting caliber TE is way more important that a backup OLB. The TE we draft will play roughly 70% of the snaps like Delanie does. The TE from Notre Dame is who I'm looking at. Our GM choked this year and should have taken Fleener with our first pick and we wouldn't be talking about needing a TE.

Our DL is a major issue, we can't keep paying Smith what he gets paid and ICE. We have to move to the grunts forming the DL like Pitt does. If we can sign Bowman and Smith long term this will be the foundation for our team for the next decade, but they will be taking up 35 to 40 mill for that group alone, so we can only pay 10 million or so for the entire starting DL.

Originally posted by bigwads:

Originally posted by jreff22:
OLB before any TE

I think a starting caliber TE is way more important that a backup OLB. The TE we draft will play roughly 70% of the snaps like Delanie does. The TE from Notre Dame is who I'm looking at. Our GM choked this year and should have taken Fleener with our first pick and we wouldn't be talking about needing a TE.

Our DL is a major issue, we can't keep paying Smith what he gets paid and ICE. We have to move to the grunts forming the DL like Pitt does. If we can sign Bowman and Smith long term this will be the foundation for our team for the next decade, but they will be taking up 35 to 40 mill for that group alone, so we can only pay 10 million or so for the entire starting DL.

Fleener would be #3 on the depth chart.....wasted pick.

With actual weapons at WR the looks for any TE outside of Davis will go down...not worth a first rounder.

Eifert will be gone before we pick so no point in looking at him.

Fleener would of been a bad pick, you have to also look cap wise, do we want to pay 1 TE top 5, then a second Top 20 money, which is what would happened if Fleener was here. We needed a WR, not a TE, AJ Jenkins will be fine. I don't expect our draft class to play in 2012, we have our remaining 6 picks from 2011 all active on game days, and 2 of them mark out 2012 picks, James and Looney out for Hunter and Looney. And Moss, Manningham, Crabtree and Williams are better right now than AJ.

Originally posted by bigwads:

Originally posted by jreff22:
OLB before any TE

I think a starting caliber TE is way more important that a backup OLB. The TE we draft will play roughly 70% of the snaps like Delanie does. The TE from Notre Dame is who I'm looking at. Our GM choked this year and should have taken Fleener with our first pick and we wouldn't be talking about needing a TE.

Our DL is a major issue, we can't keep paying Smith what he gets paid and ICE. We have to move to the grunts forming the DL like Pitt does. If we can sign Bowman and Smith long term this will be the foundation for our team for the next decade, but they will be taking up 35 to 40 mill for that group alone, so we can only pay 10 million or so for the entire starting DL.

I dont see Sopoaga in 2013 or beyond in SF. He plays limited snaps, so no need to pay out our arse for a NT who won't play every down. We can afford Bowman and J.Smith. Plus McDonald, plus we have cheap but useful guys in Tukuafu, Dobbs and Ian Williams, who are all RFAs in 2014 offseason, so I can see all back on 3-4 yr deals. RJF is the tough one, I want him back more than Sopoaga. Younger and more versiitle.

If you are worried with paying a lot on the DL alone, then how is pay top 5 for VD, and then top 20 for a 2nd TE a good thing cap wise? Thats what needs to be taken into consideration when drafting in round 1.

AB, what kind of penalties would the 49ers incur capwise if they cut these players next offseason:

Frank Gore @ 6 mil for 2013
Mario Manningham @ 5 mil for 2013
Jonathon Goodwin @ 5mil for 2013
Parys Haralson @ 3 mil for 2013

Would any of these guys carry a bunch of dead money?

Originally posted by DVDA:
AB, what kind of penalties would the 49ers incur capwise if they cut these players next offseason:

Frank Gore @ 6 mil for 2013
Mario Manningham @ 5 mil for 2013
Jonathon Goodwin @ 5mil for 2013
Parys Haralson @ 3 mil for 2013

Would any of these guys carry a bunch of dead money?

Thats a vaild question and AB will tell you but I must interject -- Gore being included in that list is a flat out joke. No way we cut the franchise leading rusher and a pillar of strength for the team to get cap room -- especially if he keeps any semblance of his week 1 form throughout the season. Restructure? Maybe, cut? Nope.

Originally posted by DVDA:

AB, what kind of penalties would the 49ers incur capwise if they cut these players next offseason:

Frank Gore @ 6 mil for 2013
Mario Manningham @ 5 mil for 2013
Jonathon Goodwin @ 5mil for 2013
Parys Haralson @ 3 mil for 2013

Would any of these guys carry a bunch of dead money?

Why on earth would we want to cut Manningham? Or Frank for that matter.