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Sketching out our 2013 Draft Needs

Originally posted by Gore_21:
It's being discussed in a few threads already but here is what I put:

LIKELY NEEDS:
#3 and/or #4 OLB - Depending on if we keep Parys or not we will need 1 or possibly 2 guys. Who knows what Fleming will bring and Cam seems to have nice size but needs to get stronger. Haggins won't be around next year most likely.

3rd Tackle - We don't want to be shuffling Boone around if he is playing well at G. With Person and Hall gone that leaves Wiggins as the only backup T (ps).

5th CB - Brock could be upgraded or get someone good enough to bump everyone down and make the group that much better.

Backup S - Between Spillman and Robinson not sure we have a reliable backup FS or SS.

POSSIBLE NEEDS:
FS - Will Goldson re-sign and are they comfortable with Spillman starting?

C - Goodwin could be replaced after this year. Is Kilgore the future at center?

WR - Ginn and Moss would be FAs leaving Manningham, Crabtree, Jenkins and Williams (maybe Palmer if he makes it on PS all yr). If Moss does well and is back then it might not be a concern.

NT - Sopoaga and Ricky Jean-Francois are free agents. Look for us to re-sign at least one of them. Not sure Ian Williams could start. If we re-sign one or the other and Ian is the backup I would be fairly confident and maybe not get a guy until late. ILB - Only if we lose Larry Grant and/or Tavares Gooden to FA Down the list...

DE - Good backups in RJF, Tukuafu and Dobbs but if RJF is starting NT we could use another guy.

TE - Only need a #2 if we lose Walker to FA. Possibly a #3.

Agree w/most. I think Walker gets starter money elsewhere, and it would be nice if the swing T wasn't playing G. I was thinking that Cully would work well as a starting S on base downs, pushing to CB in Nickle, or staying at S to get Cox on the field.
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Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Agree w/most. I think Walker gets starter money elsewhere, and it would be nice if the swing T wasn't playing G. I was thinking that Cully would work well as a starting S on base downs, pushing to CB in Nickle, or staying at S to get Cox on the field.

I think Cully is showing too much promise at CB to think about shifting him to safety. It will be interesting to see if he can blanket Calvin Johnson this time around. I know we still allowed CJ to catch 160 something yards last year but Cully did keep him out of the end zone and I would love to see Cully not allow the deep bomb to him this time around which I think happend 2 times last year.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by martysofresh:
idk about your thoughts on recievers. If we get Moss back next year, I say we draft a reciever in the mid rounds that has a high ceiling. Someone who could end up being a RZ target. I really wish we managed to get Brian Quick somehow, he was my favorite WR in the draft. Damn those Lambs. But someone simliar to him. Not the worlds fastest reciever, but I guy that has some talent.

I agree with the rest though.

I say we draft a CB with a higher ceiling than Brown as well. I think he's a good corner, but he's slightly overrated and will end up leaving for big bucks somewhere plus I think Brock gets traded to a team that needs a a #2/3 corner.

This year's draft is supposed to be a good year to draft NTs and Safties so we definitely need to grab a high profile player at one of those poisition, probably NT. ICE is gettin up there ad his contract is running out. RJF could leave in FA so I see us re-signing ICE and then drafting a guy to replace RJF

Our Center will be between Kilgore and Looney but that depends on how Boone does at RG since Looney was drafted to be a RG. Our linemen are a versatile group of guys so it doesnt matter too much but drafting a C and OT in mid-rounds wouldnt be too bad. Just to get some quality backs -ups is the goal.

Unless we cut a WR we cant keep the full set from this year and draft another one.

Nobody will trade for Brock to be a #2...while he currently is 5th.

Drafting a CB who "should" replace Brown means we are not going to use Cully....and we would have to burn a very high pick to do that.

Looney will be staying at OG, Kilgore has been "groomed" for center....expect another center/guard and possibly an OT to be drafted as well


nobody drafts a WR in the 1st to inactive on game days either. You never know how much better Brock is than other teams' current corners. Shantae Spencer is starting in OAkland. WHen teams are desparate for corners, they will give up something. Saying that Brock could be a #2/3 somewhere isnt my personal opinion. Its an analyst's opinon.

How do you say that Kilgore has been groomed for OG when before the draft the biggest talks were about Kilgore vs Boone for the RG job? Maybe after he lost to Boone and Looney was drafted, but I wouldnt say that he's obviously the next C. Im reading what I though and I def didnt mean to say that Loney could be a C lol.
Originally posted by martysofresh:
nobody drafts a WR in the 1st to inactive on game days either. You never know how much better Brock is than other teams' current corners. Shantae Spencer is starting in OAkland. WHen teams are desparate for corners, they will give up something. Saying that Brock could be a #2/3 somewhere isnt my personal opinion. Its an analyst's opinon.

How do you say that Kilgore has been groomed for OG when before the draft the biggest talks were about Kilgore vs Boone for the RG job? Maybe after he lost to Boone and Looney was drafted, but I wouldnt say that he's obviously the next C. Im reading what I though and I def didnt mean to say that Loney could be a C lol.

Let me try this again....we wont keep 7 WR's on the final roster like you are proposing....wont happen!!

Teams who need CB's will go draft them this year or dip in starter worthy FA's, they wont bite on a kid who has been at the bottom of the pile. Spencer was a starting CB during his career, Brock is the 5th guy and got pushed down to that spot. Which analyst said Brock has starter quality and would be trade bait for a high pick?

Kilgore has been groomed to be the new Center....how do I know, he's the damn backup. Daniel Kilgore has been lining up exclusively at center this spring, at least in the two practices that have been open to the media.

Kilgore can play OG but he will remain at C unless we draft a better kid. Looney will be the primary backup OG next year.

Staley-----------Iupati-------------Kilgore---------------Boone---------------Davis
Rookie(1)---------Looney--------Rookie(2)--------Looney/Rookie(2)-------Rookie(1)
Originally posted by sfout:
I think Cully is showing too much promise at CB to think about shifting him to safety. It will be interesting to see if he can blanket Calvin Johnson this time around. I know we still allowed CJ to catch 160 something yards last year but Cully did keep him out of the end zone and I would love to see Cully not allow the deep bomb to him this time around which I think happend 2 times last year.

It was only 113... 41 of them on one play. Culliver did a nice job. Hopefully we double him all game long. Make Bureleson and Titus Young beat you assuming we stop the run.
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Originally posted by Gore_21:
It was only 113... 41 of them on one play. Culliver did a nice job. Hopefully we double him all game long. Make Bureleson and Titus Young beat you assuming we stop the run.

lol i dunno why i was thinking about 160 -- only bolsters my point even more.
I really am beginning to think we won't draft a NT high. Sopoaga only played 7 snaps sunday. I don't think NT will be a high priority, so re-signing RJF is key IMO.

Goldson and Sopoaga likely are gone, never was fans of them, a bit overrated.

Delanie could be gone, I don't see a huge offer, but maybe Celek is kept as a replacement.

Most likely to stay put depending on 2012 season goes, Randy Moss, Tavares Gooden, Jean Francois and Jacobs.

McBath and Brock are RFAs, and at 1.26m it isn't worth the tenders.

If I had to prioritize them it would be this way.

1. Randy Moss
2. Ricky Jean Francois
3. Delanie Walker
4. Brandon Jacobs
5. Tavares Gooden
6. Larry Grant

I leave off Brock and McBath as they can be outrighted signed for 1yr $640k deals.

I think the above 6 are all possible to stay. Maybe Grant is seen as possible starter in case Bowman decides not to re-sign. Gooden I would go and give him a 2 or 3 yr deal, he has earned it IMO, he has shown as a ST leader, and can play ILB if need be.

Moss and Jacobs I think will prove themselves, and thus will stay due to the 49ers giving them a chance. We paid both good money, not a lot guaranteed, but good money in whole.

Jean Francois is younger than Sopoaga and will be cheaper, plus he is a key Backup at DE and NT.

Now I wouldn't rule out Sopoaga, but playing only 7 snaps a game, or even 10-12 doesn't amount to a 20M contract guy.

With the way things are going, I think we need to look into extending 3 players who expire after 2013, Whitner, Akers and Justin Smith. Lower salaries, and save some cap room for moves. Past 2013, we have Manningham and Brown to worry about, then we go into possible deals for Iupati, A.Davis, Aldon and Cully, Kaep and Miller.

Hopefully by 2015/2016, the cap will jump up to around 130-135m a year at least.
One other note, no way we get anything valuable for Brock. If we couldn't get a 7th for Spencer, who proven something, then why would any vision Brock as a starter like CB. He couldn't beat out Cully or Cox.
Originally posted by 9erred:
History repeats itself. Isaac Sopoaga is from American Samoa, he loves being on theNFL team closest to the Islands. When he was a FA he instructed his agent publicly to get a deal done only with the Niners. The agent was upset and wanted to wait until the start of FA to get leverage, and Sopoaga said no, get me a fair deal and I will stay a niner. Sopoaga will do the same thing again, trust me on that.



sop could easily go to oakland or sd
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Originally posted by ads_2006:
Originally posted by 9erred:
History repeats itself. Isaac Sopoaga is from American Samoa, he loves being on theNFL team closest to the Islands. When he was a FA he instructed his agent publicly to get a deal done only with the Niners. The agent was upset and wanted to wait until the start of FA to get leverage, and Sopoaga said no, get me a fair deal and I will stay a niner. Sopoaga will do the same thing again, trust me on that.

sop could easily go to oakland or sd

or Seattle :X

The more I think about the way I see free agency playing out our needs are going to be FS, DT, Tackle, #5 Receiver if Ginn leaves, maybe #2 TE because I'm iffy about Walker's future. I think both Jacobs and Moss will pan out -- Everything else is just filler and depth picks or FA signings, easily replaceable. I would love for the 9ers to be able to go into draft weekend with only 4 or 5 real needs, then we'd really be able to use those 12-13 picks to move around and get exactly who we want.
[ Edited by sfout on Sep 12, 2012 at 12:19 PM ]
Something not really talked about in this thread, since it's mainly focused on cap space, is the drafting abilities of our Head Coach and General Manager. The next few seasons will be a true test of their drafting prowess.

The talent pool is much larger when you're drafting in the top ten every round. It shrinks considerably when you're forced to draft 28-or-29-or-30 every round. Bill Walsh could do it. He did do it. He found players in the middle rounds that would develop into future All Pros.

Can Harbaugh-Baalke do the same? I would imagine that there's just a little bit of luck involved with making picks this late. Obviously, you have to know what you're doing. But you also have to get LUCKY.

Case in point: Bill Walsh had his eyes on a game changing safety in the 1981 draft. He would rebuild the 49ers secondary with the '81 draft, and he had big plans for his top pick.

Imagine his chagrin when his top pick, Kenny Easley, went to Seattle at pick #7. So, Walsh did the next best thing. He picked the second best player at that position on his draft board. And with the 8th pick in the draft, the 49ers selected....Ronnie Lott.

Skill? Yes. Luck? No doubt.

If we draft well? We can allow a few players to slip away and replace them with people who are just as talented. But if we don't draft well, we've all seen what happens when we don't draft well...
Originally posted by communist:
Delanie is too small to be a good TE, imo...will be gone anyway, thus we will go after a TE in rounds 1-3, imo.
Safety-positions will under watch, imo.
RB could be another position which could be drafted for early...Jacobs is 30 already, Gore will be 30 next year. Hunter has to pan out as a constantly good runner. I think that we will draft at least a power-RB in mid-rounds. Perhaps Stephan Taylor from Stanford...

NO MORE RUNNING BACKS!!! WE HAVE Gore, Hunter, Dixon, James. We don't need to pay bowman, after a year and 1 game, we need to pay aldon right now than if this is the case too... We can loss goldson, even though i'd like him to stay but we better take a saftey in the first, and prepare to watch him get his ass kicked, the only weak link will be him, teams will try and exploit it, I'd rather tag goldson one more year, and draft his replacement and let him watch and rotate in build up the confidence. Who says walker is gone, are you is agent, how much is he asking for than? Sop will take a fair deal and stay. Ginn Might be gone, unless he wants another 1 year, same with randy moss, same with Jacobs!
[ Edited by TheGoldDiggerrrr on Sep 12, 2012 at 8:42 PM ]
Originally posted by billbird2111:
Something not really talked about in this thread, since it's mainly focused on cap space, is the drafting abilities of our Head Coach and General Manager. The next few seasons will be a true test of their drafting prowess.

The talent pool is much larger when you're drafting in the top ten every round. It shrinks considerably when you're forced to draft 28-or-29-or-30 every round. Bill Walsh could do it. He did do it. He found players in the middle rounds that would develop into future All Pros.

Can Harbaugh-Baalke do the same? I would imagine that there's just a little bit of luck involved with making picks this late. Obviously, you have to know what you're doing. But you also have to get LUCKY.

Case in point: Bill Walsh had his eyes on a game changing safety in the 1981 draft. He would rebuild the 49ers secondary with the '81 draft, and he had big plans for his top pick.

Imagine his chagrin when his top pick, Kenny Easley, went to Seattle at pick #7. So, Walsh did the next best thing. He picked the second best player at that position on his draft board. And with the 8th pick in the draft, the 49ers selected....Ronnie Lott.

Skill? Yes. Luck? No doubt.

If we draft well? We can allow a few players to slip away and replace them with people who are just as talented. But if we don't draft well, we've all seen what happens when we don't draft well...

Even though it is fun to look into the future, cap wise and needs, I am not concerned with 2013. I trust Baalke, Harbaugh, Marathe, and the Yorks, which no one would of said back in early-mid 2000s.
Agree AB! I totally trust Baalke, Harbaugh, Marathe, and York! I think AJ Jenkins, Joe Looney, LaMichael James were picked based on losing Gore (2 years), Moss/Ginn (possibly next year), and Jon Goodwin (next year). I dont think we will here their names called at the beginning of 2012 barring injury.

I also think Garrett Celek made the final 53 to cut ties with Delanie Walker. DW will get paid and with Navarro Bowman and others needing locked up in future years we cant afford a lot of money going to our #2 TE.

IMO first round pick in 2013 will be BPA. DE/FS
[ Edited by genz22 on Sep 13, 2012 at 12:22 PM ]
Originally posted by genz22:
Agree AB! I totally trust Baalke, Harbaugh, Marathe, and York! I think AJ Jenkins, Joe Looney, LaMichael James were picked based on losing Gore (2 years), Moss/Ginn (possibly next year), and Jon Goodwin (next year). I dont think we will here their names called at the beginning of 2012 barring injury.

I also think Garrett Celek made the final 53 to cut ties with Delanie Walker. DW will get paid and with Navarro Bowman and others needing locked up in future years we cant afford a lot of money going to our #2 TE.

IMO first round pick in 2013 will be BPA. DE/FS

Yep, Jenkins, James and Looney were picked for a reason, Kilgore is likely at Center, so Looney will be needed depth.

Celek wise, it makes sense when you look at bonus he was given compared to Reuland, Reuland got a $1,333k signing bonus, where Celek got a $6k bonus, not saying it means a whole lot, but shows something.