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Fleener / Hill / Jenkins

There is no way we should take a guard if one of these guys is available. Having a potential pro bowl guard to plug in for 10 years (what you hope for with a first rounder) is attractive, sure, but I don't see how it gets us over the top this year. We already have Kilgore who has been learning the ropes, and the option of adding a proven vet through free agency.

Fleener or Hill would contribute immediately and help alleviate BY FAR our main weakness. They would put points on the board. They would make Alex Smith better.

As for Jenkins, if it's true what the scouts are saying--that he's a top 15 talent--we have to take him if he's there at 30. It's a passing league and we only have one top-flight corner, and we're merely crossing our fingers that age doesn't catch up with him soon. This could be our chance to solidify that spot for a long time. And if Rogers has another productive several years, we suddenly have a secondary that matches our front 7 in terms of pure scariness.
I agree. These are the 3 guys I want the most at #30.
There's so many guys who we could end up taking, but after thinking about it, I agree I like these three the most, or at least their positions, and your reasoning is spot on.
  • mike
  • Veteran
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How does it get us over the top this year? Well, Alex was sacked 20 times in our 3 regular season losses. Clearly we had issues at right guard last season, and Snyder is gone.

As for free agency, most if not all of the moves have been done by now(and we just have enough cap to pay rookies, not vets). Kilgore showed promise but it was preseason against backups...He shouldn't just be handed the job as if he's proven, it's very risky to go in with just Kilgore at RG...

So with that huge need in mind, I'll turn this around and ask, how will Fleener or Hill impact immediately? Compare that huge gaping need at guard to... studly Vernon Davis, and very useful utility guy Delanie Walker. Add on the fact that Fleener needs to improve in the blocking game which means he can't be on the field for every down in his first year. At most he's another tall guy you can throw out on third downs...Big deal. Also look at typical rookie tight end statistics and you'll see they're usually about what Delanie Walker puts up every year lol.

Then we move to WR, Hill is a very raw player who basically only was used running deep streaks down the field. He's not a polished route runner. He also will take a lot of time to transition. Like with the TE situation, you've also got some great competition there already with crab/moss/manningham. Our WR situation is already a lot better than it was last season. But without a great right guard, we won't see the benefits of the changes.

Although I'm not sure where the depth lies, I'm okay with drafting a WR high if there's an OG in the 2nd that can really compete with kilgore.Really not big on fleener or hill though.

CB I'm fine with taking if he's the BPA.
[ Edited by mike on Apr 25, 2012 at 11:19 PM ]
Originally posted by forty9ers49:
There's so many guys who we could end up taking, but after thinking about it, I agree I like these three the most, or at least their positions, and your reasoning is spot on.

I wish I had firmer opinions on the rest of the WR class. Everything I've read and seen about Hill has made me want him. Guys like Randle, Sanu, Jeffrey, and Wright... I'm just not sure.

If we do end up taking Jenkins or a guard first, I think we need to get whichever of these other WRs Baalke likes best, even if it means trading up in the 2nd.
Originally posted by mike:
How does it get us over the top this year? Well, Alex was sacked 20 times in our 3 regular season losses. Clearly we had issues at right guard last season, and Snyder is gone.

As for free agency, most if not all of the moves have been done by now(and we just have enough cap to pay rookies, not vets). Kilgore showed promise but it was preseason against backups...He shouldn't just be handed the job as if he's proven, it's very risky to go in with just Kilgore at RG...

So with that huge need in mind, I'll turn this around and ask, how will Fleener or Hill impact immediately? Compare that huge gaping need at guard to... studly Vernon Davis, and very useful utility guy Delanie Walker. Add on the fact that Fleener needs to improve in the blocking game which means he can't be on the field for every down in his first year. At most he's another tall guy you can throw out on third downs...Big deal. Also look at typical rookie tight end statistics and you'll see they're usually about what Delanie Walker puts up every year lol.

Then we move to WR, Hill is a very raw player who basically only was used running deep streaks down the field. He's not a polished route runner. He also will take a lot of time to transition. Like with the TE situation, you've also got some great competition there already with crab/moss/manningham. Our WR situation is already a lot better than it was last season. But without a great right guard, we won't see the benefits of the changes.

Although I'm not sure where the depth lies, I'm okay with drafting a WR high if there's an OG in the 2nd that can really compete with kilgore.Really not big on fleener or hill though.

CB I'm fine with taking if he's the BPA.

Well, you've definitely put your finger on the counterpoints. But I think I'd feel pretty good our OG competition if we had to settle for a 2nd or 3rd rounder to compete with Kilgore. Last I read, there were also still proven starters on the FA market and the 49ers were waiting until after the draft to finalize a decision.
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
There is no way we should take a guard if one of these guys is available. Having a potential pro bowl guard to plug in for 10 years (what you hope for with a first rounder) is attractive, sure, but I don't see how it gets us over the top this year. We already have Kilgore who has been learning the ropes, and the option of adding a proven vet through free agency.

Fleener or Hill would contribute immediately and help alleviate BY FAR our main weakness. They would put points on the board. They would make Alex Smith better.

As for Jenkins, if it's true what the scouts are saying--that he's a top 15 talent--we have to take him if he's there at 30. It's a passing league and we only have one top-flight corner, and we're merely crossing our fingers that age doesn't catch up with him soon. This could be our chance to solidify that spot for a long time. And if Rogers has another productive several years, we suddenly have a secondary that matches our front 7 in terms of pure scariness.

a) what proven veteran guard is available in FA? Lutui? The guy who was too fat to play last year? Too fat! For an o-lineman! He was too fat for a person who is expected to be 350 lbs. Too fat for 350 lbs!

b) saying we don't need a guard because Kilgore has been learning the ropes is no different than saying that we don't need a WR because Brett Swain has been learning the ropes
[ Edited by RollinWith21n52 on Apr 25, 2012 at 11:27 PM ]
Dont want hill or Jenkins TBH.

With the WR's i think will be available at #30 I would take Jefferey. I dont give a f**k if he played with a little pudge. He dominated. He came in at a lower weight, ran a good 40, and with the right team the guy will dominate.

I personally would take Fleener if hes there, because quite frankly i think all the WR's availabe at 30 will be a slight reach. I would trade back into the high second and target one of the three who i think will be available there. (Hill, Jefferey, Randle)
Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
a) what proven veteran guard is available in FA? Lutui? The guy who was too fat to play last year? Too fat! For an o-lineman! He was too fat for a person who is expected to be 350 lbs. Too fat for 350 lbs!

b) saying we don't need a guard because Kilgore has been learning the ropes is no different than saying that we don't need a WR because Brett Swain has been learning the ropes

For the record, I want a guard in the first three rounds. But comparing WR to OG? Aren't there a ton of starting guards in the NFL who were middle rounders? I'm saying it's not worth using our most premium draft pick on the position where we could have viable options. Swain is not a viable WR.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Dont want hill or Jenkins TBH.

With the WR's i think will be available at #30 I would take Jefferey. I dont give a f**k if he played with a little pudge. He dominated. He came in at a lower weight, ran a good 40, and with the right team the guy will dominate.

I personally would take Fleener if hes there, because quite frankly i think all the WR's availabe at 30 will be a slight reach. I would trade back into the high second and target one of the three who i think will be available there. (Hill, Jefferey, Randle)

I'm reasonably excited about Jeffrey as a 2nd rounder (perhaps with a slight trade-up) if we go Jenkins or OG in the first.
Originally posted by IdahoNiner:
Dont want hill or Jenkins TBH.

With the WR's i think will be available at #30 I would take Jefferey. I dont give a f**k if he played with a little pudge. He dominated. He came in at a lower weight, ran a good 40, and with the right team the guy will dominate.

I personally would take Fleener if hes there, because quite frankly i think all the WR's availabe at 30 will be a slight reach. I would trade back into the high second and target one of the three who i think will be available there. (Hill, Jefferey, Randle)
If we could trade back for Hill that would be ideal. If Tann falls Cle and Mia could be calling to move back up and within their range we could possibly get him.
Trade back for Hill? I guess anything's possible, but he goes before 30 in both MD's and OTC's lists. 30 would not be a reach. If you want Hill and he's sitting there at 30, you don't trade back.
For what its worth I like Jenkins so much more than Amukamara last year. Jenkins is a legit man-corner who excelled in playing press coverage, he's a perfect fit for the system that the 49ers run. Hopefully he scares off enough teams that he'll be available at Pick 30, because his talent level is tremendous and he would provide superior depth in the secondary.
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
For the record, I want a guard in the first three rounds. But comparing WR to OG? Aren't there a ton of starting guards in the NFL who were middle rounders? I'm saying it's not worth using our most premium draft pick on the position where we could have viable options. Swain is not a viable WR.

Yeah there's also a ton of WR's that are picked in the middle-late rounds. Historically WR is the position most likely to bust and least likely to start during the rookie season. Any rookie WR the 49ers bring in will be used sparingly this year as he'll be behind Crabtree, Manningham and Moss....and then you also have Ginn and Kyle Williams on the roster and so realistically one WR to develop is all they need and that can be found in Rounds 2-4 easily with the depth of WR in this draft class.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by LieutKaffee:
For the record, I want a guard in the first three rounds. But comparing WR to OG? Aren't there a ton of starting guards in the NFL who were middle rounders? I'm saying it's not worth using our most premium draft pick on the position where we could have viable options. Swain is not a viable WR.

Yeah there's also a ton of WR's that are picked in the middle-late rounds. Historically WR is the position most likely to bust and least likely to start during the rookie season. Any rookie WR the 49ers bring in will be used sparingly this year as he'll be behind Crabtree, Manningham and Moss....and then you also have Ginn and Kyle Williams on the roster and so realistically one WR to develop is all they need and that can be found in Rounds 2-4 easily with the depth of WR in this draft class.

Yes, we have quite a few players on the roster who are listed as WR. Crabtree and Manningham are both solid #2. I was initially excited about Moss, but now everywhere I look it seems I'm reading something about how he might not even contribute or make the team. Honestly, I have no idea what to expect when you take one of the best WR ever out of retirement.

Ginn and Williams, come on.