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I've got Randle over Hill...Am I crazy?

Originally posted by Bay_Area_Fan:

Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by strickac:
Randle is the safer pick. I think Hill's value is extremely inflated due to that one spectacular catch and because of his 40 time. I think he'll struggle in the pros.

DHB without the ability to run routes


just because the tech offense didnt ask him to run complex routes doesnt mean that he cant---it just shows that he wasnt asked to...he is a world classa athlete and should be able to pick up the route running duties a team would ask of him
Originally posted by hofer36:
just because the tech offense didnt ask him to run complex routes doesnt mean that he cant---it just shows that he wasnt asked to...he is a world classa athlete and should be able to pick up the route running duties a team would ask of him

True it doesnt mean he cant... but it does mean he is 3 years behind the curve on practicing them, developing the natural muscle memory to go in and out of breaks smoothly, and hasn't been working on the little intracacies that make a great route runner. That takes time to develop. The key thing to focus on is whether the difference in his upside compared to Randle, Quick, etc so large that it makes up for the additional time he will need to develop. Hill is the definition of why 40 times can be misleading, he doesnt play anywhere close to that 4.31.
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by dlance:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Someone on Ninersnation said that Hill has horrible hands, only made two catches with his hands all season...ugly.

He does use him body to catch the ball but did you watch the video on the first page i count at lest 3 catches with his hands.

He does have horrible hands its why GT couldnt feature him more and why he disappears from game to game. He has good game speed but if he cant catch consistently hes pretty useless imo. 49ers need someone who can catch everything so Smith will feel comfortable throwing to him. Id pass up Hill entirely and go with Jeffery, Floyd or Fleener.

Who said Hill has "horrible hands" and that's why GT couldn't "feature him more?" Btw, no WR on this planet catches "everything"...even the GOAT had serious problems his first year dropping passes, but that doesn't mean he had horrible hands. Same thing with Julio Jones who is poised to be a great WR in this league....kid had a ton of key drops his rookie season and didn't catch "everything," but that doesn't mean he has bad hands and it definitely doesn't mean he was a wasted pick.

Your post is off-base and kinda silly.
Originally posted by 5280High:
Honest question, what video did you watch that showed Hill showcasing seperation skills? Everything I've found shows CB's stride for stride with him 80-90% of the time, but he uses his size very well to wall off the CB and highpoint the catch... just doesnt seperate. IMO Randle wins that one. And then blocking probably a tie.

Another thing to keep in mind is the time it'll take for them to be brought up to an NFL level.
You be the judge. Pick #1 or #2.

#1 Release: Has exceptional length, reach, and power in hands, and easily negates the press. Not overly sudden, needs some steps to get to top speed. Tends to release a bit high and upright. Not overly explosive initially, but top speed is impressive once attained. 4.36 40 6.88 3-cone

#2 Release: Good strength to push the cornerback onto his heels in tight coverage and has the burst to step back, space and snatch the quick out. Smooth accelerator who can get behind the defense with good playing speed but needs to do a better job of using his hands to gain separation when pressed.
4.55 40 6.99 3-cone.

#2 Blocking: Top grade here. Has outstanding range, technique, and power. Consistently dominated smaller DBs and had success blocking LBs. Was a focus blocker on the GaTech offense with plays designed to run behind his blocks. 14 225 reps.

#1 Blocking: Takes pride in his role as a blocker, showing significant improvement in this area in 2011 from 2010. Possesses very good size as well as good strength and effort to contain his target. Looks to get involved downfield to spring one of his teammates. 15 225 reps.
Originally posted by Ice49er:
You be the judge. Pick #1 or #2.

#1 Release: Has exceptional length, reach, and power in hands, and easily negates the press. Not overly sudden, needs some steps to get to top speed. Tends to release a bit high and upright. Not overly explosive initially, but top speed is impressive once attained. 4.36 40 6.88 3-cone

#2 Release: Good strength to push the cornerback onto his heels in tight coverage and has the burst to step back, space and snatch the quick out. Smooth accelerator who can get behind the defense with good playing speed but needs to do a better job of using his hands to gain separation when pressed.
4.55 40 6.99 3-cone.

#2 Blocking: Top grade here. Has outstanding range, technique, and power. Consistently dominated smaller DBs and had success blocking LBs. Was a focus blocker on the GaTech offense with plays designed to run behind his blocks. 14 225 reps.

#1 Blocking: Takes pride in his role as a blocker, showing significant improvement in this area in 2011 from 2010. Possesses very good size as well as good strength and effort to contain his target. Looks to get involved downfield to spring one of his teammates. 15 225 reps.

On the blocking part you're right, definitly times where Hill's size makes you forget that he's blocking a LB and not a corner so thinking back gotta give the edge to Hill. On the release, still gotta side with Randle simply because I favor quickness over top end speed but its just a perspective. The less quick a receiver is the better his technique needs to be. Both are good workers so at the end of the day both have a chance to be very good and get the technique down. IMO Floyd, Randle, Hill and Quick will come out of this draft and have long careers in the NFL as "big" WR's. Its a great time for the niners to be looking to the draft for this position.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by dlance:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Someone on Ninersnation said that Hill has horrible hands, only made two catches with his hands all season...ugly.

He does use him body to catch the ball but did you watch the video on the first page i count at lest 3 catches with his hands.

He does have horrible hands its why GT couldnt feature him more and why he disappears from game to game. He has good game speed but if he cant catch consistently hes pretty useless imo. 49ers need someone who can catch everything so Smith will feel comfortable throwing to him. Id pass up Hill entirely and go with Jeffery, Floyd or Fleener.

Who said Hill has "horrible hands" and that's why GT couldn't "feature him more?" Btw, no WR on this planet catches "everything"...even the GOAT had serious problems his first year dropping passes, but that doesn't mean he had horrible hands. Same thing with Julio Jones who is poised to be a great WR in this league....kid had a ton of key drops his rookie season and didn't catch "everything," but that doesn't mean he has bad hands and it definitely doesn't mean he was a wasted pick.

Your post is off-base and kinda silly.

He does have horrible hands. The fact that he does isnt hard to find out either. Techs WRs all had issues with drops the last 2 seasons. Hills drops were a big reason they couldnt use him more as a feature WR. It doesnt stop him from being prospect with elite potential imo. It just stops him from being a immediate impact that can start year 1 as a pro. Hes a very boom or bust pick that id pass on this year since theyre so many other WRs. Who have the natural pass catching ability to start early as a pro.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
DHB without the ability to run routes

Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by strickac:
Randle is the safer pick. I think Hill's value is extremely inflated due to that one spectacular catch and because of his 40 time. I think he'll struggle in the pros.

DHB without the ability to run routes

He apparently looks good running routes in drills though. I think he'll be fine as a deep threat, but little more than that. Not that he really compares to Torrey Smith, but I think he'll need to be utilized in the same way.
Originally posted by strickac:
He apparently looks good running routes in drills though. I think he'll be fine as a deep threat, but little more than that. Not that he really compares to Torrey Smith, but I think he'll need to be utilized in the same way.

we need a torrey smith type player who can strech the field
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
we need a torrey smith type player who can strech the field

Are you aware that we run the west coast offense?
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Originally posted by dlance:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Someone on Ninersnation said that Hill has horrible hands, only made two catches with his hands all season...ugly.

He does use him body to catch the ball but did you watch the video on the first page i count at lest 3 catches with his hands.

He does have horrible hands its why GT couldnt feature him more and why he disappears from game to game. He has good game speed but if he cant catch consistently hes pretty useless imo. 49ers need someone who can catch everything so Smith will feel comfortable throwing to him. Id pass up Hill entirely and go with Jeffery, Floyd or Fleener.

Who said Hill has "horrible hands" and that's why GT couldn't "feature him more?" Btw, no WR on this planet catches "everything"...even the GOAT had serious problems his first year dropping passes, but that doesn't mean he had horrible hands. Same thing with Julio Jones who is poised to be a great WR in this league....kid had a ton of key drops his rookie season and didn't catch "everything," but that doesn't mean he has bad hands and it definitely doesn't mean he was a wasted pick.

Your post is off-base and kinda silly.

He does have horrible hands. The fact that he does isnt hard to find out either. Techs WRs all had issues with drops the last 2 seasons. Hills drops were a big reason they couldnt use him more as a feature WR. It doesnt stop him from being prospect with elite potential imo. It just stops him from being a immediate impact that can start year 1 as a pro. Hes a very boom or bust pick that id pass on this year since theyre so many other WRs. Who have the natural pass catching ability to start early as a pro.

The NFL Network's Mike Mayock mentioned that he's "less concerned" about Georgia Tech WR Stephen Hill's issues with dropped balls and route running. "He's a hands snatcher," said Mayock. "He had five or six drops [at Georgia Tech] … but when you watch him catch the football, it's so natural. I don't think Stephen Hill gets out of the first round," added Mayock.

NFL.com's Bucky Brooks: As a pass catcher, Hill shows strong hands and gives the quarterback a huge target with his enormous catching radius (33 3/8-inch arms and a 79 1/2-inch wingspan). He has a penchant for coming down with acrobatic catches in a crowd, and his ability to win contested balls makes him a dangerous weapon in the red zone.

National Football Post evaluation: Showcases "plus" hands at times when asked to pluck off his frame. Exhibits a large set of paws and can snatch cleanly with one hand. However, does have a tendency at times to lose concentration and will put the ball on the ground.

CBSSports analysis: Hands: Has generally good hands, with the capacity for the outstanding catch. Tremendous ability to high point. Good at tracking the throw and adjusting his route. Natural hand catcher. Has great leaping ability and can extend and snatch with elite skill, even at full speed.

SportingNews evaluation: Coming from a program like Georgia Tech and getting limited opportunities to show his receiving skills, the Combine was a huge opportunity. Hill aced his exams and impressed scouts with the day's fastest 40-yard time and fluid routes during drills. He also showed strong hands the ability to make acrobatic catches. Hill increased his value and should fly up draft boards with his combination of size and skills.

Yahoo Sports evaluation: As evidenced by his vertical jump, Hill can elevate over cornerbacks and has the catch radius to pull down most catchable balls regardless of coverage or placement. As an added bonus, he will snag the occasional one-handed catch. There were numerous occasions where Hill dropped potential touchdown passes and will need to work on his concentration, especially when left open.

Unfortunately, you're confusing dropped balls with "horrible hands," and there's a HUGE difference. According to just about every respectable outlet, Hill is a natural ball catcher who (like many young WRs) has lapses in concentration and drops catchable balls. Is this an issue, absolutely and it needs to get corrected. But to confuse this with having "horrible hands" is a huge mistake on your part; thankfully professional evaluators know the difference.

In terms of how GT used him, it's pretty comparable to how they've used all of their WRs over the last 4 years or so under Paul Johnson.....sparingly.
[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Apr 12, 2012 at 10:51 AM ]
Stephen Hill is the Taylor Mays of WR's
Originally posted by walker807:
Stephen Hill is the Taylor Mays of WR's

Based on what?
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by walker807:
Stephen Hill is the Taylor Mays of WR's

Based on what?

Id say based of his rawness as a prospect but with the kind of elite potential that will have him drafted higher than he should be.
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Id say based of his rawness as a prospect but with the kind of elite potential that will have him drafted higher than he should be.

i agree with this assesment

other than a 9 route or some jump ball in RZ i dont see him contributing next year
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