There are 146 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Fleener vs Hill

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I am certain that Hill would be no worse than #2 on the 49er. In terms of using two TE's, mismatches, playmaking ability, replacing Walker, etc., we don't need to use our 1st pick to achieve those goals. Even if JH ran two TE's almost exclusively (though I highly doubt we're going to use it more than 10 or 15% in 2012) we still don't need to burn our 1st rounder on to achieve that goal.There are guys we can get as late as the 4th round (Dwayne Allen, Orson Charles, Ladarius Green, Michael Egnew, all guys you can split out a get the same kind mis-match Fleener would presumably get) who can come in and do the same job Fleener would do for us. Personally, I think JH & Co. wants to open the offense up so I doubt we are going to use as much two TE sets as we did last season. But my point is that we don't need to draft Fleener in the 1st in order to achieve all the things that people here are saying why we need to draft Fleener.

Curious what makes you think that. In every system that Harbaugh has head coached, the TEs have been featured more than the WRs
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
I am certain that Hill would be no worse than #2 on the 49er. In terms of using two TE's, mismatches, playmaking ability, replacing Walker, etc., we don't need to use our 1st pick to achieve those goals. Even if JH ran two TE's almost exclusively (though I highly doubt we're going to use it more than 10 or 15% in 2012) we still don't need to burn our 1st rounder on to achieve that goal.There are guys we can get as late as the 4th round (Dwayne Allen, Orson Charles, Ladarius Green, Michael Egnew, all guys you can split out a get the same kind mis-match Fleener would presumably get) who can come in and do the same job Fleener would do for us. Personally, I think JH & Co. wants to open the offense up so I doubt we are going to use as much two TE sets as we did last season. But my point is that we don't need to draft Fleener in the 1st in order to achieve all the things that people here are saying why we need to draft Fleener.

Curious what makes you think that. In every system that Harbaugh has head coached, the TEs have been featured more than the WRs

Right, I keep fighting this battle, JH loves to throw to backs and ends, did in SD, did at Stanford, did last season...what does this guy know that we don't? Has Harbaugh called him to say, "dude changing my M.O." I think we take Fleener or another big bodied fast TE who can run routes, and I wouldn't be shocked if take a RB with better hands than Frank Gore, it just fits Harbuagh's style.
  • mike
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,827
Harbaugh also loves trying to find gems and developing mid round guys, especially at skill positions.

People mostly seem to be saying Fleener because Harbaugh coached him. But Harbaugh had opportunities and passed on Stanford prospects like Marecic and Baldwin last year. Why draft Fleener when he can develop someone like Egnew in the 4th with a much lower risk pick.

I think between Harbaugh and carroll, just going off of the last few drafts, there seems to be a tendency with these recently promoted college coaches to avoid drafting guys they coached in college. They might worry that there's kind of a conflict of interest as far as staying objective in evaluating players. Obviously players you've coached and watched have a place in your heart as a coach and they don't want to miss a gem of a player because of that.
[ Edited by mike on Mar 23, 2012 at 3:02 PM ]
Originally posted by mike:
Harbaugh also loves trying to find gems and developing mid round guys, especially at skill positions.

People mostly seem to be saying Fleener because Harbaugh coached him. But Harbaugh had opportunities and passed on Stanford prospects like Marecic and Baldwin last year. Why draft Fleener when he can develop someone like Egnew in the 4th with a much lower risk pick.

I think between Harbaugh and carroll, just going off of the last few drafts, there seems to be a tendency with these recently promoted college coaches to avoid drafting guys they coached in college. They might worry that there's kind of a conflict of interest as far as staying objective in evaluating players. Obviously players you've coached and watched have a place in your heart as a coach and they don't want to miss a gem of a player because of that.

We actually targeted Marecic in the draft he just got picked sooner than the the Niners thought. Also harbaugh said when it comes to the draft he lets Baalke and the scouts take care of scouting for guys he coached cuz he knows he would be biased towards them.

I have no problem if the Niners took Fleener at 30, dude is a freak and would give the offense another much needed threat
Originally posted by mike:
Harbaugh also loves trying to find gems and developing mid round guys, especially at skill positions.

People mostly seem to be saying Fleener because Harbaugh coached him. But Harbaugh had opportunities and passed on Stanford prospects like Marecic and Baldwin last year. Why draft Fleener when he can develop someone like Egnew in the 4th with a much lower risk pick.

I think between Harbaugh and carroll, just going off of the last few drafts, there seems to be a tendency with these recently promoted college coaches to avoid drafting guys they coached in college. They might worry that there's kind of a conflict of interest as far as staying objective in evaluating players. Obviously players you've coached and watched have a place in your heart as a coach and they don't want to miss a gem of a player because of that.
With Marecic I thought they tried to get him but they missed. Baldwin they should have drafted but he chose seatlle because he thought he could get a roster spot more easily with them.
I think your point is still valid though. It probably depends on how they have players rated. If they don't think highly on any of the TE's after Fleener then they are pretty much Fleener or Bust. If Harbaugh tells Baalke that he likes Fleener but he also believes he can turn Egnew or Green or other guys into the same type of Monster then they can go elsewhere with the 1st pick and gamble with trying to get another guy later on. Nothing wrong with that. People just like Fleener because they know Harbs can already use him since they saw what he did with him.
We did the same with Bruce Miller I believe. They wanted Owen M. but missed and they had another player rated high in Miller that they felt could also do the job. If they thought that Miller couldn't, they probably would have taken Owen earlier.
So when it comes to Hill vs. Fleener...people view the wr pool this year as deep and Harbs can have a project in any round if he wants to but the TE pool appears weak so people want to lock up Fleener. That's how I look at it at least.
Originally posted by jacklegniner:
With Marecic I thought they tried to get him but they missed. Baldwin they should have drafted but he chose seatlle because he thought he could get a roster spot more easily with them.
I think your point is still valid though. It probably depends on how they have players rated. If they don't think highly on any of the TE's after Fleener then they are pretty much Fleener or Bust. If Harbaugh tells Baalke that he likes Fleener but he also believes he can turn Egnew or Green or other guys into the same type of Monster then they can go elsewhere with the 1st pick and gamble with trying to get another guy later on. Nothing wrong with that. People just like Fleener because they know Harbs can already use him since they saw what he did with him.
We did the same with Bruce Miller I believe. They wanted Owen M. but missed and they had another player rated high in Miller that they felt could also do the job. If they thought that Miller couldn't, they probably would have taken Owen earlier.
So when it comes to Hill vs. Fleener...people view the wr pool this year as deep and Harbs can have a project in any round if he wants to but the TE pool appears weak so people want to lock up Fleener. That's how I look at it at least.

This. Harbaugh did not look pleased when Marecic got picked. He even said that they had tried trading up to get him. He also said, during the season, that they should have drafted Baldwin (I thought he was implying instead of Johnson, which made me think it might have been an inadvertent shot at Baalke or Morton). I any event, he wasn't pleased that his team passed on those two guys, and he brought in Beeler, Hall, and Matthews (USD) to the PS.
I Like Both Fleener and Hill. Im not sure if ether of these guy will be on the board at pick 30. so I really don't think the 49er will have to worry about witch to pick. I think fleener is a safer bet then Hill. Hill is more of a need then Fleener. the thing that is driving me crazy is all the stuff that poster are throwing out there that is just made up. Im not sure witch one of these guy will turn out to be the better player. the one thing i know and it is only my opinion if I could chose to have the best TE in the NFL Rob Gronkowski or the best WR in the NFL Calvin Johnson. I would take Calvin Johnson for the 49er. I do think there is a better chance that Fleener will be closer to Gonkiwski then Hill to Johnson. But what if they both suck and they pasted on a 8 time All por Nose gaurd to take one of them.
Originally posted by dlance:
I Like Both Fleener and Hill. Im not sure if ether of these guy will be on the board at pick 30. so I really don't think the 49er will have to worry about witch to pick. I think fleener is a safer bet then Hill. Hill is more of a need then Fleener. the thing that is driving me crazy is all the stuff that poster are throwing out there that is just made up. Im not sure witch one of these guy will turn out to be the better player. the one thing i know and it is only my opinion if I could chose to have the best TE in the NFL Rob Gronkowski or the best WR in the NFL Calvin Johnson. I would take Calvin Johnson for the 49er. I do think there is a better chance that Fleener will be closer to Gonkiwski then Hill to Johnson. But what if they both suck and they pasted on a 8 time All por Nose gaurd to take one of them.

Wait Gronkowski is the best tight end in the NFL? I strongly disagree. He has all day to get open because the Pats give Brady 10 seconds to throw. I'd take Vernon Davis over Gronkowski any day of the week. The only thing Gronkowski has on Davis is height and perhaps more consistent hands, but Davis has improved in that area tremendously.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
Wait Gronkowski is the best tight end in the NFL? I strongly disagree. He has all day to get open because the Pats give Brady 10 seconds to throw. I'd take Vernon Davis over Gronkowski any day of the week. The only thing Gronkowski has on Davis is height and perhaps more consistent hands, but Davis has improved in that area tremendously.

I was just using Gronkowski you can throw who ever you want in there some mite not think Calvin johnson is the best WR ok. But since you think Davis is the best ok.
Has Harbaugh ever lined up Fleener at WR? Anyone who watched alot of Fleener think he can play WR and be a #1 kind of WR? If so id with Fleener but if not I dont think its a good move to pass on a 4.3 WR with Hills size. I dont think you could go wrong with either player both have elite potential as a pro.
I still want Hill. Wish we could draft both though!
Originally posted by jimmy49erfan:
Has Harbaugh ever lined up Fleener at WR? Anyone who watched alot of Fleener think he can play WR and be a #1 kind of WR? If so id with Fleener but if not I dont think its a good move to pass on a 4.3 WR with Hills size. I dont think you could go wrong with either player both have elite potential as a pro.

fleener has lined up as a wr in some of stanford's offensive sets
I love Fleener but I think he'd be rated around the same as Hill. If both are sitting there and both players have close to the same rating, you go with the guy that fits the need. Hill is that guy. Moss is a one year deal, Hill spends his rookie year seeing limited action and learning and than in 2013 shows his stuff.
I think Hill will go before #30. Please also remember that he played in an OPTION offense which did keep his numbers down. I think Fleener would have more of an immediate impact. Hill is a reach to me at anything other than a late 1st-early 2nd round player. This is because he is somewhat of an unknown commodity due to his lack of college production. Not any fault of his own IMO. Fleener is definitely a late 1st rounder because his is really the undisputed BPA at his position. Great size, speed and production. The plus for the Niners is that he hits the ground running because he knows the system. To me he a logical first pick for us. BPA if you will if he's there at #30. I take him, go OG or RB in the 2nd and 3rd and the RB or OG in the 3rd. The two back I like best are Martin and Turbin. From the multi-round mocks I've seen and with the way I think the draft will shake out, we can ring up at least 2 surefire starters if we traded up into the top 10 of the 2nd round or trade back and pick up an extra 2nd and a first for 2013. Taking two first round picks is easier to swallow now with the rookie pool salary cap.
Originally posted by jacklegniner:
With Marecic I thought they tried to get him but they missed. Baldwin they should have drafted but he chose seatlle because he thought he could get a roster spot more easily with them.
I think your point is still valid though. It probably depends on how they have players rated. If they don't think highly on any of the TE's after Fleener then they are pretty much Fleener or Bust. If Harbaugh tells Baalke that he likes Fleener but he also believes he can turn Egnew or Green or other guys into the same type of Monster then they can go elsewhere with the 1st pick and gamble with trying to get another guy later on. Nothing wrong with that. People just like Fleener because they know Harbs can already use him since they saw what he did with him.
We did the same with Bruce Miller I believe. They wanted Owen M. but missed and they had another player rated high in Miller that they felt could also do the job. If they thought that Miller couldn't, they probably would have taken Owen earlier.
So when it comes to Hill vs. Fleener...people view the wr pool this year as deep and Harbs can have a project in any round if he wants to but the TE pool appears weak so people want to lock up Fleener. That's how I look at it at least.

i heard baldwin didnt like harbaugh. he had some not so nice things to say about him on twitter at one point