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Fleener vs Hill

Originally posted by mjo116:
it hurts us in that we spend a high draft pick on a position that isnt one of NEED. For some reason everyone seems to think the massive hole at RG can be replaced by a player who wasnt good enough to back up Snyder(kilgore).
At some point you have to just throwing 1st rounders at the line and develop some guys.
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
Originally posted by pete98146:
If that is the case, I don't think Fleener will be there at #30 and there is a good chance Hill will be gone as well. It stinks because our other good prospect Cordy Glenn will also be off the board.

I'll predict we'll trade back 10 spots and nab Kevin Zeitler - G from Wisconsin. Is it a sexy pick? Nope, but atleast we'll be able to stock pile talent.

The wildcard pick may be Lamar Miller RB.
Just saw Fleener run his 4.45 at Stanford Pro Day ( ESPN 3 ). Man that big boy can MOVE! 4.45 puts him as the fastest TE in the draft. With the way Gronk and Graham blew up, I dont think there's a chance in hell he makes it to 30. I could see the G-men jumping us if he's there in the late 20's.

If that's the case, I LOVE your idea of trading back for Zeitler, Im a HUGE fan. Saw him a ton since Im a Penn State fan, he dominated Still on the inside. He is the perfect RG for our offense, can pull, pass block and drive block as well as anyone in the nation. In my mind he is 2nd only to DeCastro and ahead of Glenn. If we do that, we can then groom Kilgore for the G/C swing role. If we can get another 3rd or 4th rounder out of this deal to move down I say take it. There's another GREAT pass catching TE in this draft, Michael Egnew. He has EXCELLENT hands and will be there in the 3rd/4th. I saw him play a ton in college too, he was unstoppable with Blane Gabbert in 2010. They had no deep threat on offense that year. It was all Egnew and TJ Moe ( Wes Welker clone ).

I like the plan A of Fleener with a possible plan B of Zeitler + Egnew for the same pick.


Fleener vs Hill is a tough choice for me, and I'm not sure which way I am leading now.Either would be a great weapon of our offense. It would be nice to have a potential future number one receiver, especially with the Moss and Manningham signings being short term.. I do agree that if we take Zeitler we would have to trade back. There is no way we should take him at 30. I also agree with Pete's point on Lamar Miller as the wild card, and it would not surprise me at all if they decided to go that route.
[ Edited by GorefullBore on Mar 22, 2012 at 8:26 PM ]
Originally posted by GorefullBore:
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
Originally posted by pete98146:
If that is the case, I don't think Fleener will be there at #30 and there is a good chance Hill will be gone as well. It stinks because our other good prospect Cordy Glenn will also be off the board.

I'll predict we'll trade back 10 spots and nab Kevin Zeitler - G from Wisconsin. Is it a sexy pick? Nope, but atleast we'll be able to stock pile talent.

The wildcard pick may be Lamar Miller RB.
Just saw Fleener run his 4.45 at Stanford Pro Day ( ESPN 3 ). Man that big boy can MOVE! 4.45 puts him as the fastest TE in the draft. With the way Gronk and Graham blew up, I dont think there's a chance in hell he makes it to 30. I could see the G-men jumping us if he's there in the late 20's.

If that's the case, I LOVE your idea of trading back for Zeitler, Im a HUGE fan. Saw him a ton since Im a Penn State fan, he dominated Still on the inside. He is the perfect RG for our offense, can pull, pass block and drive block as well as anyone in the nation. In my mind he is 2nd only to DeCastro and ahead of Glenn. If we do that, we can then groom Kilgore for the G/C swing role. If we can get another 3rd or 4th rounder out of this deal to move down I say take it. There's another GREAT pass catching TE in this draft, Michael Egnew. He has EXCELLENT hands and will be there in the 3rd/4th. I saw him play a ton in college too, he was unstoppable with Blane Gabbert in 2010. They had no deep threat on offense that year. It was all Egnew and TJ Moe ( Wes Welker clone ).

I like the plan A of Fleener with a possible plan B of Zeitler + Egnew for the same pick.


Fleener vs Hill is a tough choice for me, and I'm not sure which way I am leading now.Either would be a great weapon of our offense. It would be nice to have a potential future number one receiver, especially with the Moss and Manningham signings being short term.. I do agree that if we take Zeitler we would have to trade back. There is no way we should take him at 30. I also agree with Pete's point on Lamar Miller as the wild card, and it would not surprise me at all if they decided to go that route.


I guess I'm leaning toward Hill, but I like Fleener as well.
Originally posted by GorefullBore:
Originally posted by GorefullBore:
Originally posted by DRUSTOPO:
Originally posted by pete98146:
If that is the case, I don't think Fleener will be there at #30 and there is a good chance Hill will be gone as well. It stinks because our other good prospect Cordy Glenn will also be off the board.

I'll predict we'll trade back 10 spots and nab Kevin Zeitler - G from Wisconsin. Is it a sexy pick? Nope, but atleast we'll be able to stock pile talent.

The wildcard pick may be Lamar Miller RB.
Just saw Fleener run his 4.45 at Stanford Pro Day ( ESPN 3 ). Man that big boy can MOVE! 4.45 puts him as the fastest TE in the draft. With the way Gronk and Graham blew up, I dont think there's a chance in hell he makes it to 30. I could see the G-men jumping us if he's there in the late 20's.

If that's the case, I LOVE your idea of trading back for Zeitler, Im a HUGE fan. Saw him a ton since Im a Penn State fan, he dominated Still on the inside. He is the perfect RG for our offense, can pull, pass block and drive block as well as anyone in the nation. In my mind he is 2nd only to DeCastro and ahead of Glenn. If we do that, we can then groom Kilgore for the G/C swing role. If we can get another 3rd or 4th rounder out of this deal to move down I say take it. There's another GREAT pass catching TE in this draft, Michael Egnew. He has EXCELLENT hands and will be there in the 3rd/4th. I saw him play a ton in college too, he was unstoppable with Blane Gabbert in 2010. They had no deep threat on offense that year. It was all Egnew and TJ Moe ( Wes Welker clone ).

I like the plan A of Fleener with a possible plan B of Zeitler + Egnew for the same pick.


Fleener vs Hill is a tough choice for me, and I'm not sure which way I am leading now.Either would be a great weapon of our offense. It would be nice to have a potential future number one receiver, especially with the Moss and Manningham signings being short term.. I do agree that if we take Zeitler we would have to trade back. There is no way we should take him at 30. I also agree with Pete's point on Lamar Miller as the wild card, and it would not surprise me at all if they decided to go that route.


I guess I'm leaning toward Hill, but I like Fleener as well.

If Fleener went to say Arizona State would we even be argueing this point? I like Hill for our team by alot
Originally posted by tjd808185:
At some point you have to just throwing 1st rounders at the line and develop some guys.

I could apply that same logic to our TEs. Who do we have that can start right away at RG? no one.
we didnt sign anyone in FA. RG is the only posistion where a starter is needed immediately.
I want Hill.
Originally posted by mjo116:
I could apply that same logic to our TEs. Who do we have that can start right away at RG? no one.
we didnt sign anyone in FA. RG is the only posistion where a starter is needed immediately.

You don't know if Kilgore is starting material or not. Snyder started because of the expierence factor and we let him walk to Arizona for a reason. It's because we were happy with our backups taking over.
  • Wodwo
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I'm kinda feeling that they both over rated.

Just not feeling the hype.

Not getting that "complete player" vibe from them.

Love the upside of both, though.

I'm just not sweating it if we don't get either one.
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by pete98146:
Originally posted by jreff22:
thats only 1 team that uses 2 TE in that fashon...the Saints with Graham are not any different then us.


Like I said..you wait a few years and see how that changes.
like the wild cat?

are you serious? The 49ers and the Patriots use the 2-TE set the most of any teams in the league. And given how often we use 2 TEs, we could really use an upgrade over Delanie Walker.
We might trade up for Fleener, JH loves to use multiple TE's in his passing game, also JH is very loyal to guys, he still regrets not drafting a couple of Stanford guys last year...won't let it happen again.
IMO, we will not trade up for Fleener or Hill. If we were to trade up, it would be for DeCastro IF, and big frickn' IF, he falls into lower twenties for some reason. The other might be for Konz or Glenn. DeCastro, Konz or Glenn would immediate upgrade our ROG position. DeCastro would simply plug n start, would be worth getting.

As far as Fleener, he's not as complete to be a first rounder even with his speed. The knock is the blocking. If he had Davis-type skills at blocking, he would be a top 25 pick. I still says he will be there at #30 and we will be heavily considering him at that point.
I'm torn on this pick. I think Fleenor can come in and help immediatly so I'm leaning towards him. I just hate to pass up Hill and 2 or 3 years from now the dude is in the pro bowl.

As a team we are in a great place to truly take BPA at 30. I don't see us trading back as I don't see anyone wanting to trade up for anyone.
Originally posted by miked1978:
I'm torn on this pick. I think Fleenor can come in and help immediatly so I'm leaning towards him. I just hate to pass up Hill and 2 or 3 years from now the dude is in the pro bowl.

As a team we are in a great place to truly take BPA at 30. I don't see us trading back as I don't see anyone wanting to trade up for anyone.

Wide receiver seems to be a low priority in the Harbuagh offense...Fleener.
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Originally posted by jreff22:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Originally posted by jreff22:
You are assuming that Manningham is going to eat into passes from Hill, he could very well eat into Crabs numbers...which would make more sense. Also you are grossly overvaluing Manningham.

Walker can do the duties assigned to him, if he wasnt looked highly upon we would of put him on IR last year

You are making a subjective argumnet to boast about Fleener...a guy who would always be no higher then #2.....where as Hill could become a #1.

If we had a #1 WR we wouldnt be needing to draft more WR's, because we dont, its become a problem. Haivng another TE is a luxury not a need.

And in a 2 TE set we will be telegraphing which side we are running to, Fleener is not a blocker.
Be careful Bro. You might get accused of "trolling" for making a logical point against picking Fleener in the first. I've never understood why some fans are wanting to take a guy in the 1st who has zero chance of ever starting for the 49ers. And I've never understood how some are advocating using our 1st pick to replace a back-up.
  • Improving 3rd down conversions and RZ scoring are the prime Niner needs. This is the area suited to TEs more than WRs.
  • As the #2 TE last year, Walker played enough to be considered a starter or in the first group. Certainly Fleener would only increase that.
  • Fleener would increase Alex's catchable throw area while not necessarily increasing the length of his throws
  • The offense would even more flexible, splitting, flanking or keeping in tight either or both VD and Fleener even more so than with Walker

If you are advocating using a TE has a WR, then why not just draft a WR?

Better point to make.....say we run a formation with only 1 TE, that guy would be Vernon. Say Hill becomes the #1 WR and we run a formation with only 1 WR, Hill would be that guy. No matter what Fleeners upside is he will NEVER replace Vernon.
Because you can't as easily use a WR as a TE. For instance, Hill vs. Fleener.
But the Niners often used two TE sets, enough that the #2 TE can be considered a starter or in the first group
I'm not certain that Hill would be the #1 receiver, or, if he is, how soon. Crabtree and Moss would have some clout there.
I am certain that Hill would be no worse than #2 on the 49er. In terms of using two TE's, mismatches, playmaking ability, replacing Walker, etc., we don't need to use our 1st pick to achieve those goals. Even if JH ran two TE's almost exclusively (though I highly doubt we're going to use it more than 10 or 15% in 2012) we still don't need to burn our 1st rounder on to achieve that goal.There are guys we can get as late as the 4th round (Dwayne Allen, Orson Charles, Ladarius Green, Michael Egnew, all guys you can split out a get the same kind mis-match Fleener would presumably get) who can come in and do the same job Fleener would do for us. Personally, I think JH & Co. wants to open the offense up so I doubt we are going to use as much two TE sets as we did last season. But my point is that we don't need to draft Fleener in the 1st in order to achieve all the things that people here are saying why we need to draft Fleener.
[ Edited by 9ersLiferInChicago on Mar 23, 2012 at 10:41 AM ]
Originally posted by tjd808185:
You don't know if Kilgore is starting material or not. Snyder started because of the expierence factor and we let him walk to Arizona for a reason. It's because we were happy with our backups taking over.

or maybe its because we are gonna draft a RG in the 1st rd