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Post combine mock v1

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
I guess I'm not getting the Fleener thing. We already have a good TE combo which was underutilized and supposedly created the "mismatches" people keep saying we'd have with Fleener. Shouldn't we look to other (numerous) areas of greater need with a first round choice?

IMO, Harbaugh's full offense was never really installed last year. If you go back to his days at Stanford, he actually ran a ton of 3 TE sets, bigger bodies that helpd both in the run game and in creating the mismatches in the secondary that you mention. IMO, drafting Fleener gives Alex 3 legit weapons at the TE position (typically a QBs best friend) and it sets us up nicely for 2013 when Walker becomes a free agent.

Now, if there was a game-changing WR available at #30, I say we go in that direction. But the odds are that Fleener (who JH knows and trusts and who already knows this system) will more likely be able to produce in all phases of this offense more so than a rookie WR (who are notoriously slow to develop).

Speaking of WRs, I think we're better off:

1.) Drafting Fleener
2.) Re-signing Morgan
3.) Signing a mid-tier veteran like Meachem, Garcon, L. Robinson, E. Doucet, etc.
4.) Drafting a speedster/special teamer like T.J. Graham, Chris Owusu, Joe Adams, Chris Rainey, Chris Givens, Kashif Moore, etc. later


Now you have these types of weapons at your disposal. No, it's not the Packers, Saints or even the Steelers, but that's really not our offense anyway. This offense is predicated on punching you in the face, then taking advantage of mismatches in the secondary.

WR
Michael Crabtree (possession guy)
(FA) Robert Meachem (legit vertical threat)
(FA) Josh Morgan (3rd WR)
Kyle Williams (2nd chance)
(R) Joe Adams (KR/PR, trick play guy)

TE
Vernon Davis (pro-bowler)
Delanie Walker (free agent in 2013)
(R) Coby Fleener (big target, already knows the offense)

Well, when you put it that way.....Actually, you make good points. The only place we deviate is Meacham. Not a big fan. like the others better. Thanks for the clarification.
Originally posted by jacklegniner:
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
I guess I'm not getting the Fleener thing. Shouldn't we look to other (numerous) areas of greater need with a first round choice?
To anyone who wants to answer this, not just 4evrfan.

What are the areas of great need other than WR or the "passing weapons for Alex." I'm not saying we don't have needs on our roster but every team does. Even the Packers have needs to address. We were supposed to be a bad team last year. We made it to the NFC Championship game though... WR is a need but I think only because we have 2 on the roster right now. The Niners were ok last year and they didnt make a splash in FA or the draft at WR. I really think that we will keep it pretty simple and just try and replace the Braylon Edwards spot. You can do that with a cheaper FA or in the mid-rounds of the draft.
Adding Fleener doesn't seem like a Luxury to me. It's just adding a weapon for Alex to throw to. You can still add a good WR to team with Crabs and Morgan after we grab Fleener in the 1st.

As for the other spots on our roster... aren't we at least above average pretty much everywhere?

I'd say WR, RG, NT upgrade, possibly corner if Rogers isn't resigned, etc. However, in the above piost and reply by Ghost, some good points are made for Fleener and though I'm stiill hesitant to spend another first on a TE, I can see the applications.
I
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by 9erguy:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Wright is not worth trading up for. We can probably get him at #30 as he's coming off a terrible combine.

Most clubs actually understand that there's flaws in how 40 times are measured, and consider the hand times as well. 4.45, 4.51 is not a bad number. His combine wasn't as bad as people are making it to be. I think the sloppy route running is more of a concern than his actual numbers.

40 yard dash is so overrated. Wright would be a big time player for us. I love this mock..great job Ghost! Hope we end of with Fleener 30. Cant wait for the draft!


I'd rather take Fleener at #30 then reach for another smurf reciever in Wright.

I would as well.

I personally think someone will trade up to 23-29 to take Fleener. Hopefully we do, to lock him in. I should've explained, I would prefer him over Wright. If he's gone and Wright is still on the board, I'd run to the podium with a smurf outfit on.
[ Edited by 9erguy on Mar 1, 2012 at 5:26 PM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
1.) Colts - Andrew Luck, QB (Stanford)
2.) Browns - Robert Griffin III, QB (Baylor) - **trade w/STL**
3.) Vikings - Matt Kalil, OT (USC)
4.) Rams - Morris Claiborne, CB (LSU) - **trade w/CLE**
5.) Bucs - Dontari Poe, DT (Memphis)
6.) Redskins - Ryan Tannehill, QB (Texas A&M)
7.) Jacksonville - Justin Blackmon, WR (Oklahoma St.)
8.) Dolphins - Quinton Coples, DE (North Carolina)
9.) Panthers - Riley Reiff, OT (Iowa)
10.) Bills - Melvin Ingram, DE/OLB (South Carolina)
11.) Chiefs - Jonathan Martin, OT (Stanford)
12.) Seahawks - Nick Perry, DE (USC)
13.) Cardinals - David DeCastro, OG (Stanford)
14.) Cowboys - Dre' Kirkpatrick, CB (Alabama)
15.) Eagles - Luke Kuechly, MLB (Boston College)
16.) NY Jets - Michael Floyd, WR (Notre Dame)
17.) Bengals - Trent Richardson, RB (Alabama) - from OAK
18.) Chargers - Michael Brockers, DT (LSU)
19.) Bears - Kendall Wright, WR (Baylor)
20.) Titans - Courtney Upshaw, DE (Alabama)
21.) Bengals - Janoris Jenkins, CB (N. Alabama)
22.) Rams - Mike Adams, OT (Ohio St.) - trade w/CLE
23.) Lions - Peter Konz, OC (Wisonsin)
24.) Steelers - Cordy Glenn, OG (Georgia)
25.) Broncos - Devon Still, DT (Penn St.)
26.) Texans - Stephen Hill, WR (Georgia St.)
27.) Patriots - Whitney Mercilus, DE/OLB (Illinois) - from N.O.
28.) Packers - Andre Branch, DE/OLB (Clemson)
29.) Ravens - Dont'a Hightower, ILB (Alabama)
30.) 49ers - Coby Fleener, TE (Stanford)
31.) Patriots - Fletcher Cox, DT (Miss. St.)
32.) NY Giants - Stephon Gilmore, CB (South Carolina)

Trying to create a mock draft is like witchcraft. Nice effort, Ghost.

This is probably the most rational mock I have seen, however, I can't help myself from nit-picking. Let me know what you think.

A couple notes:
1. I think Poe will end up in that 13-19 slot, but I don't see a move that high due to a perceived lack of productivity on the field. A guy that physically talented should be posting outrageous stats, and I believe scouts will cap him in that mid-first range.
2. After the first handful of picks, I see some team grabbing Richardson. The kid is far and away the best back in the draft, and with so many prospects having question marks attached to them in that 5-20 range, I think the Bama back goes higher. I think the Jets would go nuts over him at 16.
3. I am going to go on a limb and say that Jenkins leapfrogs Kirkpatrick. In fact, I am not so sure Jenkins is the second best CB in the draft. He may end up the top CB in the draft.
4. I really think Cordy Glenn could end up a top 10 pick. 24 seems too low for him.
5. I also think Branch and Gilmore are guys threatening the top 20 picks. Any 6'+ CB who runs like Gilmore gets crazy bonus points in a NFL with wickedly tall athletic WR's.
6. Got to think that teams with a top 20 pick think hard and long about Melvin Ingram and those alligator arms. He was a great college player, but 31 1/2 inch arms? He is nearly an identical clone to Brandon Graham, who posted strikingly similar size/weight/speed/arm length measurables but has struggled in the NFL. Just a hunch.

Cheers.
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,304
Originally posted by 9erguy:
I
Originally posted by mayo49:
Originally posted by 9erguy:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Wright is not worth trading up for. We can probably get him at #30 as he's coming off a terrible combine.

Most clubs actually understand that there's flaws in how 40 times are measured, and consider the hand times as well. 4.45, 4.51 is not a bad number. His combine wasn't as bad as people are making it to be. I think the sloppy route running is more of a concern than his actual numbers.

40 yard dash is so overrated. Wright would be a big time player for us. I love this mock..great job Ghost! Hope we end of with Fleener 30. Cant wait for the draft!


I'd rather take Fleener at #30 then reach for another smurf reciever in Wright.

I would as well.

I personally think someone will trade up to 23-29 to take Fleener. Hopefully we do, to lock him in. I should've explained, I would prefer him over Wright. If he's gone and Wright is still on the board, I'd run to the podium with a smurf outfit on.

Originally posted by mayo49:
Wright is not worth trading up for. We can probably get him at #30 as he's coming off a terrible combine.

Thank you Mayo.....completely agree. Would rather have TE Fleener or DT Reyes than Wright anyway.

Wright is pretty slight and IMHO, an injury risk in the NFL. Another question is....can he block?
Originally posted by nw9erfan:
Thank you Mayo.....completely agree. Would rather have TE Fleener or DT Reyes than Wright anyway.

Wright is pretty slight and IMHO, an injury risk in the NFL. Another question is....can he block?

i dont think he is an injury concern

he has no history of injuries and for 5 10 he is a bulky 196 pounds

blocking is something he needs to work on but he was nt bad at it and he will be playing in slot a lot i dont think he will need to block that often
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Trying to create a mock draft is like witchcraft. Nice effort, Ghost.

This is probably the most rational mock I have seen, however, I can't help myself from nit-picking. Let me know what you think.

A couple notes:
1. I think Poe will end up in that 13-19 slot, but I don't see a move that high due to a perceived lack of productivity on the field. A guy that physically talented should be posting outrageous stats, and I believe scouts will cap him in that mid-first range.
2. After the first handful of picks, I see some team grabbing Richardson. The kid is far and away the best back in the draft, and with so many prospects having question marks attached to them in that 5-20 range, I think the Bama back goes higher. I think the Jets would go nuts over him at 16.
3. I am going to go on a limb and say that Jenkins leapfrogs Kirkpatrick. In fact, I am not so sure Jenkins is the second best CB in the draft. He may end up the top CB in the draft.
4. I really think Cordy Glenn could end up a top 10 pick. 24 seems too low for him.
5. I also think Branch and Gilmore are guys threatening the top 20 picks. Any 6'+ CB who runs like Gilmore gets crazy bonus points in a NFL with wickedly tall athletic WR's.
6. Got to think that teams with a top 20 pick think hard and long about Melvin Ingram and those alligator arms. He was a great college player, but 31 1/2 inch arms? He is nearly an identical clone to Brandon Graham, who posted strikingly similar size/weight/speed/arm length measurables but has struggled in the NFL. Just a hunch.

Cheers.

Nice comments MD... Given that several players have improved their draft status after the Combine, whom do you feel would be likely to slip to 30 that would be a bargain?

I believe you have Fleener as a late first or early second round pick... Is that correct? Is there another team you envision that would grab him in the first before the 30th pick? Pittsburgh or Denver for example...?

Thanks....always get something out of your posts...

Cheers!
Turrible mock. Richardson 17 overall? Bucs taking a DT when they took 2 last year with high picks..
Originally posted by marshniners24:
Turrible mock. Richardson 17 overall? Bucs taking a DT when they took 2 last year with high picks..

Bucs took two DEs (Clayborn and Bowers) last year, not 2 DTs. They took 2 DTs in 2010 (McCoy and Price), but they were more penetrating tackles as opposed to run-stuffers, which is part of the reason the Bucs were dead last in stopping the run last year. New head coach, new defensive philosophy which requires different talent. Not only did they give up the most rushing yards in the NFL, they also gave up 5.0 per run and gave up 26 rushing TDs....by comparison, no other team in the league gave up more than 19 last year. But hey, if you think they don't need help plugging up the middle and stuffing the run, that's cool.

You might be right about Richardson, but teams just aren't willing to invest early picks in RBs, especially in the top 5...and in the top 5, only Tampa is in need of RB help. If he doesn't go there (which I don't think he will), only the Chiefs at #11 are possibilities. I could see Richardson going 11th overall, but I also believe Charles will come back so it's not like they don't have talent there. So it came down to improving the o-line or using a high pick on a RB, and looking at Pioli's track record, I just didn't see that happening.

So you may disagree (and that's totally fine), but there is some thought behind these picks.
If you didn't get it right the first time, try 4 more times I guess

Also with such an empty draft at RB, Richardson becomes even MORE valuable.
[ Edited by marshniners24 on Mar 2, 2012 at 12:19 AM ]
Originally posted by marshniners24:
If you didn't get it right the first time, try 4 more times I guess

Also with such an empty draft at RB, Richardson becomes even MORE valuable.

I guess you missed the part about "you might be right about Richardson." No worries, someday I'll be as smart as you.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,892
Originally posted by marshniners24:
If you didn't get it right the first time, try 4 more times I guess

Also with such an empty draft at RB, Richardson becomes even MORE valuable.
i believe anyone who takes the time and effort to make a mock draft should not be made fun of. I could not do it and i would not be a wisenhammer to someone who takes the time to do it
Ghost-

I love Fleener, I feel he could contribute early on, and I fully understand how he would fit on this team, but I'm IN LOVE with Stephen Hill. What do you see the 9ers doing if both there at #30? Again, Fleener is better short term and I'd love to have Fleener (Gronk) to VD's (Hernandez) like NE west but if Hill reaches his ceiling MY GOD he could be a gamechanger.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 25,892
Originally posted by domesik:
Ghost-

I love Fleener, I feel he could contribute early on, and I fully understand how he would fit on this team, but I'm IN LOVE with Stephen Hill. What do you see the 9ers doing if both there at #30? Again, Fleener is better short term and I'd love to have Fleener (Gronk) to VD's (Hernandez) like NE west but if Hill reaches his ceiling MY GOD he could be a gamechanger.
do not mean to interfere but i would love to have the mismatches we can create with fleener, davis and walker. i still say you can get fleener then a very nice wide out in round two or three like mcnutt and we would be fine