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Post combine mock v1

Btw, I think trading up to get someone like Stephen Hill or Coby Fleener (if we felt it necessary) is much more realistic this year than ever before, especially if we re-sign most of our top free agents. Truth is, we won't have many front-line roster spots open if we franchise Goldson and can re-sign Alex, Morgan, Snyder (all reasonable possibilities). That would leave holes at CB (which can be addressed in free agency) and playmaking WR...in that event, we could jump up and steal a guy like Stephen Hill if most of our other key positions were already filled.

Just a thought.
Fleener Baby! We need a tall, dependable target to improve our 3rd down and red zone efficiency. If Fleener pans out the Niners will have 2 TEs that demand double coverage!
  • sfout
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Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
I guess I'm not getting the Fleener thing. We already have a good TE combo which was underutilized and supposedly created the "mismatches" people keep saying we'd have with Fleener. Shouldn't we look to other (numerous) areas of greater need with a first round choice?

IMO, Harbaugh's full offense was never really installed last year. If you go back to his days at Stanford, he actually ran a ton of 3 TE sets, bigger bodies that helpd both in the run game and in creating the mismatches in the secondary that you mention. IMO, drafting Fleener gives Alex 3 legit weapons at the TE position (typically a QBs best friend) and it sets us up nicely for 2013 when Walker becomes a free agent.

Now, if there was a game-changing WR available at #30, I say we go in that direction. But the odds are that Fleener (who JH knows and trusts and who already knows this system) will more likely be able to produce in all phases of this offense more so than a rookie WR (who are notoriously slow to develop).

Speaking of WRs, I think we're better off:

1.) Drafting Fleener
2.) Re-signing Morgan
3.) Signing a mid-tier veteran like Meachem, Garcon, L. Robinson, E. Doucet, etc.
4.) Drafting a speedster/special teamer like T.J. Graham, Chris Owusu, Joe Adams, Chris Rainey, Chris Givens, Kashif Moore, etc. later


Now you have these types of weapons at your disposal. No, it's not the Packers, Saints or even the Steelers, but that's really not our offense anyway. This offense is predicated on punching you in the face, then taking advantage of mismatches in the secondary.

WR
Michael Crabtree (possession guy)
(FA) Robert Meachem (legit vertical threat)
(FA) Josh Morgan (3rd WR)
Kyle Williams (2nd chance)
(R) Joe Adams (KR/PR, trick play guy)

TE
Vernon Davis (pro-bowler)
Delanie Walker (free agent in 2013)
(R) Coby Fleener (big target, already knows the offense)

IMO Fleener will just take Moran Norris roster spot, that way we could carry Davis, Walker, Fleener and the winner of the Reuland/Byham battle for 4th te. Walker is an H-Back, he is not a TE, we use him an as an H-back therefore we truly need a #2 TE. We would still use Walker extensively but we do need an other TE.

Also I really agree with you on the WRs. Williams isn't even assured a roster spot right now, he was the #5 WR when last season started, more then likely he'll be right back in that boat once the draft and FA have happened. He'll probably have to fight Dontavia Bogan, John Matthews and some 2012 UDFAs for the #5 role.

And yes people need to realize that all of those sets we used this year with Justin Smith, Sopoaga, and the extra OTs and DLs on the offensive side of the ball would've have been with extra TEs had JH had the roster capable of it.
[ Edited by sfout on Mar 1, 2012 at 9:55 AM ]
Something tells me Fleener will be long gone by #30
  • sfout
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Originally posted by pete98146:
Something tells me Fleener will be long gone by #30

only team that 100% need TEs and could justify a 1st round choice is the Giants and they pick after us.

Then after that the colts pick 34th so we could get Fleener before they do.

The Steelers and Falcons could use their 1sts on picking for the future because Gonzalez and Miller are getting old but they have vastly more important needs then finding a future TE.

Fleener will be there at 30 its just a matter of possibly picking between him and Stephen Hill or Kendall Wright, should either of those 2 be available at the same time.
[ Edited by sfout on Mar 1, 2012 at 10:06 AM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Regarding WR, the Rams will have a very good shot at either Rueben Randle, Mohammed Sanu or Alshon Jeffrey in the early second, possibly even Kendall Wright if he drops. But if you look at their CB situation, even when healthy, they literally only have one quality NFL corner on their roster (Ron Bartell, who's decent) with Justin King being more of an OK nickel guy. The rest are no-names, so they REALLY need a quality CB and Claiborne would give them that.

Not to mention, the Rams will likely dip into free agency to sign a proven vet WR, and they'll be getting Danny Amendola back to team with talented youngsters like Brandon Gibson, Greg Salas, Austin Pettis and Denario Alexander. So even though they're inexperienced, the cupboard isn't totally bare at WR like it is CB.

Plus, Fisher is a defensive guy and former DB who's only taken 1 WR (Kevin Dyson) in the first in his years as a head coach, whereas he's gone DB 3 times (Michael Griffin, Pacman Jones and Andre Woolfork). Just thinking about talent deficiencies on their roster, talent grades in general and the guy who's picking.

He took Kenny Britt in the first.
Originally posted by 4evrfan:
I guess I'm not getting the Fleener thing. Shouldn't we look to other (numerous) areas of greater need with a first round choice?
To anyone who wants to answer this, not just 4evrfan.

What are the areas of great need other than WR or the "passing weapons for Alex." I'm not saying we don't have needs on our roster but every team does. Even the Packers have needs to address. We were supposed to be a bad team last year. We made it to the NFC Championship game though... WR is a need but I think only because we have 2 on the roster right now. The Niners were ok last year and they didnt make a splash in FA or the draft at WR. I really think that we will keep it pretty simple and just try and replace the Braylon Edwards spot. You can do that with a cheaper FA or in the mid-rounds of the draft.
Adding Fleener doesn't seem like a Luxury to me. It's just adding a weapon for Alex to throw to. You can still add a good WR to team with Crabs and Morgan after we grab Fleener in the 1st.

As for the other spots on our roster... aren't we at least above average pretty much everywhere?
Hey Ghost, isn't Poe from Memphis? You have him listed as being from Hampton.

I get your reasons for picking Fleener at 30, and wouldn't be upset with it. Harbaugh's Stanford team made great use of 3 TE sets, and Fleener was a huge part of that. There will be WRs later that might fit--I'm hoping Marvin Jones falls to the second round. He'd fit nicely with Crabs, Morgan and maybe another FA at the right price.

With all that said, though, I'm not sure they'd take Fleener if there's a big, fast RB available at 30, like Miller from the U. You pointed out that he's a possiblity a couple of weeks ago.

It appears likely that they're gonna take a playmaker in the first round, another weapon on offense. I'm just not sure its gonna be a WR (no one elite available in the first, plenty of options later on), or a TE (with Walker, VD, Rueland, and Bynam already available), and Frank getting near the end of his career (Hunter not likely to carry the full load as an every down, big back, and Dixon disappointing).

Your mock has both Fleener and Miller still on the board at #30--if that occurs, I'm not so sure they wouldn't take Miller instead. Whaddya think?

Remember, Harbaugh's Stanford team first started winning games with a big running back attack, making Toby Gerhart a Heisman candidate before Luck, or Fleener started making news. Think of what they could do with a big, fast RB, like Lamar Miller, in the backfield.
[ Edited by oldninerdude on Mar 1, 2012 at 11:18 AM ]
Originally posted by oldninerdude:
Hey Ghost, isn't Poe from Memphis? You have him listed as being from Hampton.

I get your reasons for picking Fleener at 30, and wouldn't be upset with it. Harbaugh's Stanford team made great use of 3 TE sets, and Fleener was a huge part of that. There will be WRs later that might fit--I'm hoping Marvin Jones falls to the second round. He'd fit nicely with Crabs, Morgan and maybe another FA at the right price.

With all that said, though, I'm not sure they'd take Fleener if there's a big, fast RB available at 30, like Miller from the U. You pointed out that he's a possiblity a couple of weeks ago.

It appears likely that they're gonna take a playmaker in the first round, another weapon on offense. I'm just not sure its gonna be a WR (no one elite available in the first, plenty of options later on), or a TE (with Walker, VD, Rueland, and Bynam already available), and Frank getting near the end of his career (Hunter not likely to carry the full load as an every down, big back, and Dixon disappointing).

Your mock has both Fleener and Miller still on the board at #30--if that occurs, I'm not so sure they wouldn't take Miller instead. Whaddya think?

Good catch on Poe...fixed!

I personally would love for us to draft Miller, but I get the impression that Harbaugh doesn't value RBs (in terms of draft position) as highly as he does other playmakers. He got by at Stanford with a bunch of no-name RB recruits and had a nice running game here last year overall with a group of guys picked in the 3rd round or later. I get the feeling he's thinking we could draft a guy like Turbin, Pierce, Ballard or Ganaway later and plug them right in behind Gore and Hunter and not skip a beat in 2012. Then focus on a long-term answer for Gore's replacement in the 2013 draft. Again, just my impression of JH and not based on anything he's said or implied.

I actually like your idea of Marvin Jones in the late 2nd, especially if we can't sign a veteran playmaker with size. So if we miss out on bigger guys like Garcon, Meachem, Colston, VJackson, Doucet, etc., we might target a smaller/special teamer type of veteran WR (Eddie Royal comes to mind), and draft a bigger WR with potential (like Jones, Sanu or Brian Quick) in the late 2nd.
  • mayo49
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Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Wright is not worth trading up for. We can probably get him at #30 as he's coming off a terrible combine.

Most clubs actually understand that there's flaws in how 40 times are measured, and consider the hand times as well. 4.45, 4.51 is not a bad number. His combine wasn't as bad as people are making it to be. I think the sloppy route running is more of a concern than his actual numbers.


If he can run a sub 4.5 at his pro day, I don't think he makes it to #30.
If Houston adds Stephen Hill we may see Matt Schaub breaking Brees' record. I really like Hill and with him and Andre Johnson on the field at the same time it will be a nightmare for DBs.
Originally posted by Willisfn4life:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Regarding WR, the Rams will have a very good shot at either Rueben Randle, Mohammed Sanu or Alshon Jeffrey in the early second, possibly even Kendall Wright if he drops. But if you look at their CB situation, even when healthy, they literally only have one quality NFL corner on their roster (Ron Bartell, who's decent) with Justin King being more of an OK nickel guy. The rest are no-names, so they REALLY need a quality CB and Claiborne would give them that.

Not to mention, the Rams will likely dip into free agency to sign a proven vet WR, and they'll be getting Danny Amendola back to team with talented youngsters like Brandon Gibson, Greg Salas, Austin Pettis and Denario Alexander. So even though they're inexperienced, the cupboard isn't totally bare at WR like it is CB.

Plus, Fisher is a defensive guy and former DB who's only taken 1 WR (Kevin Dyson) in the first in his years as a head coach, whereas he's gone DB 3 times (Michael Griffin, Pacman Jones and Andre Woolfork). Just thinking about talent deficiencies on their roster, talent grades in general and the guy who's picking.

He took Kenny Britt in the first.

wat? why wouldn't the rams take blackmon after trading down if he's sitting there? WR is their biggest need.

edit, never mind. saw ur repl.y
[ Edited by ChazBoner on Mar 1, 2012 at 12:57 PM ]
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Wright is not worth trading up for. We can probably get him at #30 as he's coming off a terrible combine.

Most clubs actually understand that there's flaws in how 40 times are measured, and consider the hand times as well. 4.45, 4.51 is not a bad number. His combine wasn't as bad as people are making it to be. I think the sloppy route running is more of a concern than his actual numbers.

40 yard dash is so overrated. Wright would be a big time player for us. I love this mock..great job Ghost! Hope we end of with Fleener 30. Cant wait for the draft!
  • mayo49
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Originally posted by 9erguy:
Originally posted by tjd808185:
Originally posted by mayo49:
Wright is not worth trading up for. We can probably get him at #30 as he's coming off a terrible combine.

Most clubs actually understand that there's flaws in how 40 times are measured, and consider the hand times as well. 4.45, 4.51 is not a bad number. His combine wasn't as bad as people are making it to be. I think the sloppy route running is more of a concern than his actual numbers.

40 yard dash is so overrated. Wright would be a big time player for us. I love this mock..great job Ghost! Hope we end of with Fleener 30. Cant wait for the draft!


I'd rather take Fleener at #30 then reach for another smurf reciever in Wright.