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Drafting a TE This Year: Why it Would Possibly Be a GREAT Move

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
i want another
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by niners9:
i still dont see how putting 3 TEs on the field would be a match-up nightmare. davis would get the nickel corner.

corners are too small, LBs are too slow, Safeties would be one or the other (or both). Against 3 TEs, you can't afford to go nickel, because we will run all over you. Against 3 athletic TEs, you can't afford to go Jumbo, because someone will run free in your defensive backfield.
just thinking about our offense's potential with the addition of another pass catching te, added help at wr and another yr in the same offense with a whole off season makes me hate having to wait till tc

i just don't think it's that easy. plus we have bigger needs, drafting a TE in 1st round doesnt seem like a good move to me. i'm all for anything that works. but the nfl is about speed now. we need more speed on the outside.
Originally posted by niners9:
Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
i want another
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Originally posted by niners9:
i still dont see how putting 3 TEs on the field would be a match-up nightmare. davis would get the nickel corner.

corners are too small, LBs are too slow, Safeties would be one or the other (or both). Against 3 TEs, you can't afford to go nickel, because we will run all over you. Against 3 athletic TEs, you can't afford to go Jumbo, because someone will run free in your defensive backfield.
just thinking about our offense's potential with the addition of another pass catching te, added help at wr and another yr in the same offense with a whole off season makes me hate having to wait till tc

i just don't think it's that easy. plus we have bigger needs, drafting a TE in 1st round doesnt seem like a good move to me. i'm all for anything that works. but the nfl is about speed now. we need more speed on the outside.

i would love to draft one of the 2 top TE in the first round

but only if we resign our core guys and snu wright and jeffery arent on the board
  • cools
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Ive been on the 4 TE thing since the start of the season

* Need the depth to run Harbs O'
* Good avenue to find the tall "Red Zone" target and a "Go to" option on 3rd downs
* As Noted Byham would be quite vauluable as a blocking TE and backup FB

So is Fleener a first rnd pick now? I doubt that
but if he's not there in the 2nd for us, there will be other options
Originally posted by WRATHman44:
Do you actually have access to the coaches films, w/ wide angles and view of the whole field, or are you limited to the same sources as the rest of us (recorded tv broadcasts of games and youtube)? I ask because you keep talking about film review, but the tv broadcasts generally show 10-20% of the routes run in a given game (tough sample size for a full study).
Come now, I know you don't think I have access to NFL coaches film do you? The term is used loosly. Let me clearify: Game tape via recorded broadcasts and good DVD, and we all have access to that. (And no, not youtube. I record a lot of games - pop warner, high schoo, collage, and NFL - for a lot of different reasons.) And I disagree that broadcast game show only 10-20% of the routs. Granted, veiwers are subject to camera placement but I'd put it at about 50-60%. (But if thats the metric by which you judge film study then none of us should opine about this .) Anyway, there are other resources that I use but competitors are watching.
Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Come now, I know you don't think I have access to NFL coaches film do you? The term is used loosly. Let me clearify: Game tape via recorded broadcasts and good DVD, and we all have access to that. (And no, not youtube. I record a lot of games - pop warner, high schoo, collage, and NFL - for a lot of different reasons.) And I disagree that broadcast game show only 10-20% of the routs. Granted, veiwers are subject to camera placement but I'd put it at about 50-60%. (But if thats the metric by which you judge film study then none of us should opine about this .) Anyway, there are other resources that I use but competitors are watching.

got it
Originally posted by mike:
I'm on the TE train too lol.

It would be really hard for defenses to cover both sides with two big TE's stretching the field, opening up space for crabtree/morgan in the middle.

I'm also ok with losing one of walker or byham, byham can do a lot of the utility blocking stuff walker does and walker can do some of the same things byham used to do before he got hurt. A loss of one of them wouldn't be big compared to what we'd gain in someone with fleener's pass catching abilities.

I do think there's enough FA talent available at the WR position that we can address it too. Someone like Meachem would make sense to me since we usually don't get the vjax/colston types.
Completely agree with this......especially since Meachem would not break the bank and still fits the team's profile for what it wants from its wideouts.
When the idea of drafting Fleener was first proposed in the Zone, I had a similar reaction that a lot of you have had.....why draft a TE when it is already one of the strengths of the team and there are more pressing needs at other positions?

Well, when I actually started to think about it.....I asked myself this question... What player in the draft can provide the Niners with an instant threat on 3rd downs and in the red zone in the passing game and....will likely be there at pick number 30?

Well, if we are really honest with ourselves, there are no "sure thing" wideouts that will be available then. That means the Niners would either have to pay through the nose in free agency to bring in a vet WR like Bowe or V Jackson....or...they can get trade up in the draft and take a guy like Floyd (still not a sure thing) or....they can go after Fleener in the first round and run an offense around the TEs like New England and New Orleans did this year......both with great success.

The least risky move might just be to draft Fleener.

Cheers!
  • dj43
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Here is how I see the TE situation:

A TE must be both a blocker and a receiver in today's NFL. We have good blockers in Davis and Walker. Byham also has proven to be a very good blocker.

Walker is supposed to be a good pass catcher but his hands are suspect. Davis is good on deep patterns where he can use his speed but his lack of agility in adjusting to passes and inability to read and adjust based on defensive reads (he seemed to improve somewhat toward the end of the year) has hampered the offense a lot, particularly in reacting to blitz and pressure situations. Byham is an unknown in terms of his receiving skills.

What the 49ers need is TALL TE that has the ability to read defenses and make adjustments, as well as having the agility to adjust to catch passes often thrown hurriedly and slightly off target. This guy does not need burner speed but must be able to work in those tight areas to find room to move the chains. The 49ers do not have that guy now.

My solution would be to try to package Walker with a draft pick to move to acquire the type of TE that would compliment what Davis does. We don't need 5 TEs on the team. Between Walker, Davis, Byham and Reuland (Peele is cut), we can live without one and Walker would have the most trade value - likely a 4th, perhaps a 3rd.

Of course Harbaugh may feel Reuland is the guy and that is fine with me, but we need to fill this need if we are to have a complete passing offense.
I'm all for drafting another tight end, although I think that Byham might surprise some people. I just don't want to spend a 1st or 2nd on one. There are a lot of big, athletic tight ends that can be had in the 3rd or 4th that we should take a look at.

Michael Egnew - 6'6'', 245 lbs
Ladarius Green - 6'6'', 240 lbs (on the skinny side)
George Bryan - 6'5'', 265 lbs
  • dj43
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Originally posted by SF69ers:
I'm all for drafting another tight end, although I think that Byham might surprise some people. I just don't want to spend a 1st or 2nd on one. There are a lot of big, athletic tight ends that can be had in the 3rd or 4th that we should take a look at.

Michael Egnew - 6'6'', 245 lbs
Ladarius Green - 6'6'', 240 lbs (on the skinny side)
George Bryan - 6'5'', 265 lbs

Green appeals to me the most. Tall and agile. He doesn't have to be a heavy duty blocker. We have all that. From what I have read, he may not be there in the 4th, maybe not even in the back of the 3rd if he shows well at the combine.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by SF69ers:
I'm all for drafting another tight end, although I think that Byham might surprise some people. I just don't want to spend a 1st or 2nd on one. There are a lot of big, athletic tight ends that can be had in the 3rd or 4th that we should take a look at.

Michael Egnew - 6'6'', 245 lbs
Ladarius Green - 6'6'', 240 lbs (on the skinny side)
George Bryan - 6'5'', 265 lbs

Green appeals to me the most. Tall and agile. He doesn't have to be a heavy duty blocker. We have all that. From what I have read, he may not be there in the 4th, maybe not even in the back of the 3rd if he shows well at the combine.

Green is interesting for sure. I'm actually more enamored with Egnew (other than Fleener of course). I think coming from the Missouri offense where they constantly throw the ball, his hands should be good.
Originally posted by maxsmart:
May be better off targeting Egnew in rd 3 than Fleener in rd 1
Michael Egnew 6-6 / 245 lbs / 4.60 40
. . . Mizzou college career: 147 catches 1332 yards 8 TD's
"His athleticism, as well as his height and strong hands, make him a valuable weapon down the seam as well as a red-zone target. Three-sport high school standout also excelled in basketball and track and field, where he placed 2nd in the state championships in the long jump … Has a career best long jump of 24-4 and a triple jump of 43-feet. Intangibles: Gives excellent on-field effort, playing much stronger than his wiry frame belies. Gains praises from coaches and teammates for his work ethic."

Let us not forget that picking at the end of any round is essentially like picking in the top of the next round. Therefore, if the Niners want to get Egnew, they would have to pick him at the end of the second...and if they want Fleener, they would have to get him at the end of the first.
Originally posted by dj43:
Here is how I see the TE situation:

A TE must be both a blocker and a receiver in today's NFL. We have good blockers in Davis and Walker. Byham also has proven to be a very good blocker.

Walker is supposed to be a good pass catcher but his hands are suspect. Davis is good on deep patterns where he can use his speed but his lack of agility in adjusting to passes and inability to read and adjust based on defensive reads (he seemed to improve somewhat toward the end of the year) has hampered the offense a lot, particularly in reacting to blitz and pressure situations. Byham is an unknown in terms of his receiving skills.

What the 49ers need is TALL TE that has the ability to read defenses and make adjustments, as well as having the agility to adjust to catch passes often thrown hurriedly and slightly off target. This guy does not need burner speed but must be able to work in those tight areas to find room to move the chains. The 49ers do not have that guy now.

My solution would be to try to package Walker with a draft pick to move to acquire the type of TE that would compliment what Davis does. We don't need 5 TEs on the team. Between Walker, Davis, Byham and Reuland (Peele is cut), we can live without one and Walker would have the most trade value - likely a 4th, perhaps a 3rd.

Of course Harbaugh may feel Reuland is the guy and that is fine with me, but we need to fill this need if we are to have a complete passing offense.

Good post, dj...

Indeed, Harbaugh may feel Reuland, especially after a full-season of bulking up and learning the blocking schemes, may challenge for a roster spot and playing time as a receiving TE. He will be very interesting to watch in training camp next year....as will former Stanford guys like Chase Beeler (center) and Derek Hall (OT)...

Depending on how much the team likes these developmental guys, it obviously could change their thinking in terms of the draft and free agency.

That said, Reuland is listed as 6'4" and 260 lbs. so he is shorter and probably not quite as good an athlete as Fleener, who is 6'6" and can really leap apparently. Fleener sounds like the mismatch from hell for opposing defenses.

Cheers!
Originally posted by SF69ers:
I'm all for drafting another tight end, although I think that Byham might surprise some people. I just don't want to spend a 1st or 2nd on one. There are a lot of big, athletic tight ends that can be had in the 3rd or 4th that we should take a look at.

Michael Egnew - 6'6'', 245 lbs
Ladarius Green - 6'6'', 240 lbs (on the skinny side)
George Bryan - 6'5'', 265 lbs

This is just goofy......all of the guys you listed have issues and would require additional development, the whole logic behind drafting Fleener is that he's ready to go TOMORROW. Egnew is way slow off the line, I've seen him get jammed by midget CB's, he is slow getting into his routes and the 49ers already have enough guys who can make catches 5 yards deep on 3rd and 9.

Green has decent potential and is a good receiver but fairly lousy blocker. If you put him in the game, it really makes the defense think more pass than anything else.

Bryan I liked the best of all 3 but he's not really spectacular whatsoever. He blocks well, he receives fairly well, runs sloppy routes at times, but all-around he's better than the other 2.


However, why take a risk on any of these guys if someone like Fleener, who could start right off the bat, who runs better routes and potentially has better hands than anyone else currently on the 49ers, not to mention has the physical size, the experience in Harbaugh's offense and while he could improve as a blocker, is still fairly decent in that regards.


If you've got a talent like Fleener available, you take him instead of throwing darts and hoping to look clever after the smoke settles.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Feb 2, 2012 at 1:32 PM ]
Originally posted by nw9erfan:
Good post, dj...

Indeed, Harbaugh may feel Reuland, especially after a full-season of bulking up and learning the blocking schemes, may challenge for a roster spot and playing time as a receiving TE. He will be very interesting to watch in training camp next year....as will former Stanford guys like Chase Beeler (center) and Derek Hall (OT)...

Depending on how much the team likes these developmental guys, it obviously could change their thinking in terms of the draft and free agency.

That said, Reuland is listed as 6'4" and 260 lbs. so he is shorter and probably not quite as good an athlete as Fleener, who is 6'6" and can really leap apparently. Fleener sounds like the mismatch from hell for opposing defenses.

Cheers!

Fleener is a mismatch, which is nice, but the way I look at is in terms of existing personnel on the 49ers. By himself, he's a mismatch, put him on the field with Vernon Davis at the same time and its just absolutely bonkers. You have one TE that can beat your defense down the field, another guy who can make circus catches across the middle of the field and is 3-6 inches taller than your CB's/S's........and then both of those guys can block on run plays, it really forces a defense to tone down exotic looks and stick to base packages, even LB heavy packages to not get burnt. There goes your crazy blitzes...etc.