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Mock draft version 2.0

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Totally disagree in terms of the d-line. We have all 3 starters returning next year, 2 young guys that show promise (RJF more so than Dobbs, but even he flashed enough during the pre-season to the point where he made/stayed on the roster) and a guy that (instead of letting go with a settlement) they're keeping around (Tufuku). So is youth and some depth needed at d-line, absolutely....but "severely thin?" Not even close.

Now, OLB...we're dangerously thin and even more so if we don't resign Brooks.

To be fair, Dobbs, Tukafu and RJF show promise but none of them can even come close to Crick as a pass rusher.


Agreed, but that wasn't my point. I was merely commenting on someone calling our d-line situation "severely thin."

I wouldn't be too upset with Crick, but would rather trade down for more picks than go 3-4 DE right there. I think we're positioned well enough over the next 2-3 years in that area that we wouldn't really need a 1st rounder, but if he was BPA, I'd understand and be fine with it.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Agreed, but that wasn't my point. I was merely commenting on someone calling our d-line situation "severely thin."

I wouldn't be too upset with Crick, but would rather trade down for more picks than go 3-4 DE right there. I think we're positioned well enough over the next 2-3 years in that area that we wouldn't really need a 1st rounder, but if he was BPA, I'd understand and be fine with it.

I think it is thin actually as well. If one of Smith or McDonald goes down, this is a different defense. Part of the reason we have a top D is because we have been able to rush 4 and drop 7 and still get pressure without blitzing. Dropping 7 back means MORE double coverage, MORE INT's and LESS big plays. Our D-line is pivotal in being able to rush the passer with only 3 guys and Aldon outside. I have ZERO faith in Dobbs or Tukafu as replacements for Smith/McDonald. RJF is better suited as NT and offers very little as a pass rusher.

The area's we would not be able to recover from injury would be at QB with Smith, CB with Rogers, OLB with Aldon and DE with McDonald/Cowboy.

Add to the fact that Cowboy and McDonald played almost every snap, adding Crick who would be able to spell our guys for a series or two without losing a step would be huge for this defense. You see it year after year with the Steelers, they keep drafting 3-4 DL high because they knwo how important an dominant DL is in the 3-4 defense.

That being said, there are quite a few good looking 3-4 DE's available in this years draft.

Rd 1- Devon Still- Penn State
Rd 1- Michael Brockers- LSU
Rd 1- Jerel Worthy- Michigan State
Rd 1/2- Jared Crick- Nebraska
Rd 1/2- Fletcher Cox- Miss State
Rd 2-- Brandon Thompson- Clemson
Rd 2- Billy Winn- Boise State

I think Crick is the best pass rusher out of this group. Thompson is the best run stuffer/double teamer, and Cox might be the most overall disruptive player. If we wanted to grab a playmaker in round 1, chances are, we would be able to grab a good 3-4 DE at the end of round 2.
[ Edited by SteveYoung on Jan 20, 2012 at 2:14 PM ]
^^ With only 53 players on a roster, I think you can say that every position is one injury (and definitely two) away from being vulnerable, so I don't disagree with you there. I just don't think our d-line is "severely thin," which was my point. But I do think that if one man went down (like RayMac has), RJF could do (and has done) a nice job to where there hasn't been a noticeable drop-off.

Again, I'm not saying we shouldn't or won't go DE in the first. But IMO, you shouldn't make a habit of drafting in the first round with an eye towards depth, and that's what a 3-4 DE would be for the next 2-3 years (maybe even more) on this team. Ray is locked up for ahwile, and I don't see Justin Smith slowing down anytime soon. These guys are playing at an extremely high level right now, so to spend a 1st rounder on that position (IMO) doesn't make a ton of sense to me. A 2nd-5th rounder, absolutely! But first rounder...just not seeing it.
Member Milestone: This is post number 1,000 for Paul_Hofer.
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Certainly WR is the thinnest position. Offense is several steps behind the defense regarding production. Concentrate there first IMO.

How many times does a rookie WR come in and make an impact? There are two, maybe three receivers in this draft who would start for us and be better than what we have (Floyd, Blackmon, Wright) and they will all be gone by the time we pick. A move up to get one of these guys would not be out of the question but our offense doesn't revolve around receivers. It revolves around our TE's and run game.

Defensive players can come in right away and make an impact while offensive guys always take longer to be incorporated into the offense full time.

I would rather us sign a 2nd tier WR such as Manningham or Meachem than spend a 1st on a WR. Build our defense even stronger through the draft and we will dominate for years.

WR- Michael Crabtree, Robert Meachem, Josh Morgan, Kyle Williams, Stephen Hill, Ted Ginn.

^^^ This works for me.
Crabtree made an impact as a rookie.
How many Niners' FA WRs have made an impact?:
Braylon Edwards, Ted Ginn, Isaac Bruce, Brandon Jones, Michael Spurlock, Bryant Johnson, Bryan Gilmore, Darrell Jackson, Taylor Jacobs, Ashley Lelie
2: Ginn and Bruce
Really like picks 2 thru 5. Nice job
Not trying to be mean, but we cant afford to retain all those guys, then extend players, and add 2 big name guys. Not enough cap room.

ANd you dont use every last dollar at start of season, you need money for emergencies.
i love the fact that i have no idea who any of these college players are. last year we were researching players for the draft half way through the year. f**k the draft!!! super bowl baby!!!
i dont see ginn, r. smith and williams returning. smith and williams will go somewhere to compete for a starting job. if we sign a FA WR then i think ginn goes.
Ok, this one is a little different. I have us re-signing all the same guys but we re-sign Adam Sndyer to a modest contract as well and we choose to not re-sign Ted Ginn because he is so in-consistent as a receiver and wants to get paid like one. Larry Grant also bolts to Philly but we receive their 3rd round pick as compensation.

We DON'T make a splash in free agency with the Grubbs/Meachem signings and I included a couple trades just for fun.

Revised alternative mock:

Re-sign:

QB- Alex Smith 5 yrs
CB- Carlos Rogers 3 yrs
FS- Dashon Goldson 1 yr Franchise tag
OLB- Ahmad Brooks 5 yrs
OG- Adam Snyder 4 yrs
WR- Josh Morgan 2 yrs
MLB- Blake Costanzo 4 yrs
MLB- Tavares Gooden 2 yrs
SS- CJ Spillman (RFA)
FS- Reggie Smith 1 yr (camp competetion)
TE- Justin Peele 1 yr (camp competition)

Players to possibly extend: (2012 UFA's)

NT- Issac Sopoago
NT- Ricky Jean Francois
P- Andy Lee
TE- Delanie Walker

Losses:

CB- Shawntae Spencer- Cut
MLB- Larry Grant (RFA signed by Philly. 3rd round pick in return)
WR- Ted Ginn
OG- Chilo Rachal
FS- Madieu Williams

2012 Draft:

1- Dwight Jones, WR- North Carolina 6'4, 225

I think we might look to trade down but after we cant find any trading partners, we take a big bodied wide receiver with great hands. Jones had a superb season with 85 catches, 1196 yards and 12 TD's and will compete with Morgan to be a starter opposite Crabtree. Un-like Crick who I had in my first draft, Jones will be able to step in and start right away.

2- T.Y. Hilton, WR/KR, Florida International 5'10, 183

Back to back receivers? Yep. IIf there is one position we need to upgrade this year, it's at WR. Hilton instantly replaces Ginn as our primary returner but also will compete with Williams as our slot reciever. Michael Crabtree, Josh Morgan, Dwight Jones, Kyle Williams, TY Hilton and DeVier Posey is a nice, deep group.

3a- (f/m Philly) Nigel Bradham, LB, Florida State 6'3, 240

Takes over for the departed Larry Grant as our primary backup. Bradham plays with an edge and will be a nice fit as a 3-4 MLB and a good special teamer.

3b- Leonard Johnson, CB, Iowa State 5'10, 202

Nice size and good man coverage skills. Solid tackler with good ball skills. Steps in and becomes our 4th CB competing with Tramaine Brock.

4- George Iloka, FS- Boise State 6'3, 215

Tall, rangy safety who would be able to cover the league's big TE's. Insurance in-case Goldson leaves after next season.

5- Nicolas Jean-Baptiste, NT- Baylor 6'2, 335

Both Sopoago and Ricky-Jean Francois are UFA's after next season. Bapitiste is a prototypical 3-4 NT.

6- DeVier Posey. WR- Ohio State 6'2, 205

Suspended for 5 games for getting over-paid in a summer job. Talented player who drops and could become a steal.

7- Rokevious Watkins, OG- South Carolina 6'4, 320

Big bodied offensive lineman who would offer depth if he makes the team.
[ Edited by SteveYoung on Jan 21, 2012 at 9:11 AM ]
Originally posted by niners9:
i dont see ginn, r. smith and williams returning. smith and williams will go somewhere to compete for a starting job. if we sign a FA WR then i think ginn goes.

Williams who? Do you mean Grant?
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by niners9:
i dont see ginn, r. smith and williams returning. smith and williams will go somewhere to compete for a starting job. if we sign a FA WR then i think ginn goes.

Williams who? Do you mean Grant?

I think he means Madieu Williams, who is listed under "Losses."
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Ok, this one is a little different. I have us re-signing all the same guys but we re-sign Adam Sndyer to a modest contract as well and we choose to not re-sign Ted Ginn because he is so in-consistent as a receiver and wants to get paid like one. Larry Grant also bolts to Philly but we receive their 3rd round pick as compensation.

We DON'T make a splash in free agency with the Grubbs/Meachem signings and I included a couple trades just for fun.

Revised alternative mock:

Re-sign:

QB- Alex Smith 5 yrs
CB- Carlos Rogers 3 yrs
FS- Dashon Goldson 1 yr Franchise tag
OLB- Ahmad Brooks 5 yrs
OG- Adam Snyder 4 yrs
WR- Josh Morgan 2 yrs
MLB- Blake Costanzo 4 yrs
MLB- Tavares Gooden 2 yrs
SS- CJ Spillman (RFA)
FS- Reggie Smith 1 yr (camp competetion)
TE- Justin Peele 1 yr (camp competition)

Players to possibly extend: (2012 UFA's)

NT- Issac Sopoago
NT- Ricky Jean Francois
P- Andy Lee
TE- Delanie Walker

Losses:

CB- Shawntae Spencer- Cut
MLB- Larry Grant (RFA signed by Philly. 3rd round pick in return)
WR- Ted Ginn
OG- Chilo Rachal
FS- Madieu Williams

2012 Draft:

1- Dwight Jones, WR- North Carolina 6'4, 225

I think we might look to trade down but after we cant find any trading partners, we take a big bodied wide receiver with great hands. Jones had a superb season with 85 catches, 1196 yards and 12 TD's and will compete with Morgan to be a starter opposite Crabtree. Un-like Crick who I had in my first draft, Jones will be able to step in and start right away.

2- T.Y. Hilton, WR/KR, Florida International 5'10, 183

Back to back receivers? Yep. IIf there is one position we need to upgrade this year, it's at WR. Hilton instantly replaces Ginn as our primary returner but also will compete with Williams as our slot reciever. Michael Crabtree, Josh Morgan, Dwight Jones, Kyle Williams, TY Hilton and DeVier Posey is a nice, deep group.

3a- (f/m Philly) Nigel Bradham, LB, Florida State 6'3, 240

Takes over for the departed Larry Grant as our primary backup. Bradham plays with an edge and will be a nice fit as a 3-4 MLB and a good special teamer.

3b- Leonard Johnson, CB, Iowa State 5'10, 202

Nice size and good man coverage skills. Solid tackler with good ball skills. Steps in and becomes our 4th CB competing with Tramaine Brock.

4- George Iloka, FS- Boise State 6'3, 215

Tall, rangy safety who would be able to cover the league's big TE's. Insurance in-case Goldson leaves after next season.

5- Nicolas Jean-Baptiste, NT- Baylor 6'2, 335

Both Sopoago and Ricky-Jean Francois are UFA's after next season. Bapitiste is a prototypical 3-4 NT.

6- DeVier Posey. WR- Ohio State 6'2, 205

Suspended for 5 games for getting over-paid in a summer job. Talented player who drops and could become a steal.

7- Rokevious Watkins, OG- South Carolina 6'4, 320

Big bodied offensive lineman who would offer depth if he makes the team.


Think I like this one better. Nice job, maybe a lil bit overboard with 3 WR's since we only have roster spots for 2 at most (Crabs, Morgan, K Williams are locks) Anyways, still a good mock
I'm not completely against Dwight Jones with our 1st though some sources see him sitting til round 3. And I am not completely against double-dipping but I dont get your Hilton-pick, he is not a Da'Quan Bowers, who was graded as a 1st-rounder. He could easily fall til Day 3.
And we don't need another Nr. 2-3-Wideout. With Crabtree, Morgan, Williams and Ginn we have 4 guys for Nr.2 and Nr. 3 WR. Seriously, it's not like we dont have any receivers.
If you wanna get a speedster, then look at Arkansas, Joe Wright or Joe Adams. One of them (or even both) could be available with our 4th. And both of them can catch.

Iloka is a nice pick, just like Jean-Baptiste but after his good performace at EastWest-Shrine-Game, he could rise til day 2, especially b/c NTs don't grow on trees. Furthermore, we already have 5 ILBs. If Grant leaves, we'll have 4, should be enough to avoid drafting an ILB with one of our 3rd-rounders.
But even if we resign Brooks, we still need another OLB. A guy like Bruce Irvin would be nice at the end of the 2nd-round.

If you wanna spend another pick for a WR, go get Stephen Hill in the 3rd-round.
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
I think he means Madieu Williams, who is listed under "Losses."

Oh ok.
Originally posted by communist:
I'm not completely against Dwight Jones with our 1st though some sources see him sitting til round 3. And I am not completely against double-dipping but I dont get your Hilton-pick, he is not a Da'Quan Bowers, who was graded as a 1st-rounder. He could easily fall til Day 3.
And we don't need another Nr. 2-3-Wideout. With Crabtree, Morgan, Williams and Ginn we have 4 guys for Nr.2 and Nr. 3 WR. Seriously, it's not like we dont have any receivers.
If you wanna get a speedster, then look at Arkansas, Joe Wright or Joe Adams. One of them (or even both) could be available with our 4th. And both of them can catch.

Iloka is a nice pick, just like Jean-Baptiste but after his good performace at EastWest-Shrine-Game, he could rise til day 2, especially b/c NTs don't grow on trees. Furthermore, we already have 5 ILBs. If Grant leaves, we'll have 4, should be enough to avoid drafting an ILB with one of our 3rd-rounders.
But even if we resign Brooks, we still need another OLB. A guy like Bruce Irvin would be nice at the end of the 2nd-round.

If you wanna spend another pick for a WR, go get Stephen Hill in the 3rd-round.

A few things, the reason I have TY Hilton in round 2 is that I have Ted Ginn leaving. Not only is Hilton one of the best returners in the draft he is 10X the receiver Ginn is. I compare Hilton to GB's Randall Cobb (64th overall) or Titus Young (44th overall in 2011) coming out. They are all identical players actually. I doubt Hilton lasts until mid 3rd round.

I dont only want a "speedster" I want a return man who can catch and make an impact as a slot receiver.

As for your "we dont have any receivers" quote. Actually, we dont. Which is why Hastings and Swain are playing. Having these two guys on the NFC Championship roster is reason enough to draft two guys who can make an impact. We will carry 6 receivers most likely. So far only Crabtree and Williams are locks for next year. Morgan should be back giving us 3 and even if Ginn is re-signed, he will be re-signed stricktly as a returner. We have plenty of room to add three recievers. Michael Crabtree, Josh Morgan, Dwight Jones, Kyle Williams, TY Hilton and Devier Posey works for me. Unless you want Swain and Hastings seeing extended playing time.

I like Stephen Hill but he cant return kicks.

I like Bruce Irvin as much as the next guy but he will be behind Aldon, Brooks and Haralson. Unless we plan to cut Harlason this season or after next, I dont see the value in grabbing a guy who will be 4th string. If Brooks leaves, then sure. Aldon and Haralson start and Irvin comes in on passing downs just like Aldon did this year. I think in this current scenerio, adding Jones to compete with Morgan to start at WR and Hilton to compete with Williams at slot WR and return kicks is a nice plan. Irvin is not an every down linebacker. There is no way he can play every down, drop into coverage and identify run plays. I like him but unless Brooks leaves, I cant see us spending a 2nd on a OLB unless we want to improve Harlason's position.

Just like using a 1st on Crick playing behind Cowboy and McDonald, how much playing time will Irvin get behind Aldon, Brooks and Harlason? Where-as two young recievers (one a returner) will get plenty of time and one will possibly even start.

And actually we dont have 4 middle linebackers. We have two under contract (Willis/Bowman). Can you honestly say with a straight face that you are comfortable with Blake Costanzo or Tavares Gooden starting in their place if one of Willis/Bowman goes down? I cant. That is if they are even re-signed. Larry Grant is a RFA and he should get a 3rd round tender. Either he comes back with a nice raise or he gets an offer sheet from someone and we get a pick. But, there is no way that if he leaves, we don't look for a backup.
[ Edited by SteveYoung on Jan 21, 2012 at 8:46 PM ]