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If we got the 1st pick next year, do we take Luck even though we've got Kap?

Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

The more interesting question is if Luck is THAT good due to Harbaugh. I will be sitting with a huge smile on my face if Luck doesn't have as good of a 2011 season because this means that Jim Harbaugh knew exactly what to do with Luck's abilities and now he has possibly an even more talented QB in Kaep to work with.

I wonder what Harbaugh could have turned Kaep into if Kaep was playing for Stanford.

he had an opportunity to pick him up didnt he? sounds like nobody wanted kaep.
Originally posted by modninerfan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

The more interesting question is if Luck is THAT good due to Harbaugh. I will be sitting with a huge smile on my face if Luck doesn't have as good of a 2011 season because this means that Jim Harbaugh knew exactly what to do with Luck's abilities and now he has possibly an even more talented QB in Kaep to work with.

I wonder what Harbaugh could have turned Kaep into if Kaep was playing for Stanford.

he had an opportunity to pick him up didnt he? sounds like nobody wanted kaep.

Luck was a higher rated recruit out of High School and his dad was an EX NFL QB. Colin was a top 3 sport athlete and didn't focus primarily on football until he played at Nevada.

Luck:
Quote:
where he threw for 7,139 yards and 53 touchdowns in his high school career, and rushed for another 2,085 yards.[5] Luck was also co-valedictorian of his graduating class in 2008.[5] Regarded as a four-star recruit by Rivals.com, Luck was listed as the No. 4 pro-style quarterback in the class of 2008.[6] A highly-rated high school recruiting target,[5] he chose Stanford over offers from

Since Luck was recruited due to his HS numbers, it is reasonable to want him more than Kaep. But, who had better college numbers?
Originally posted by DaBallhawk21:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

How so? What has Luck really done? I think Cam Newton is by far the best QB to come out in the draft since...well Last years crop lmao...

Why do people insist on comparing college players to HOFs? people, seriously!

Luck's year, in 2010, was pretty spectacular. He threw for 32 TD's and 8 INT's, had a passer rating over 170, and completed almost 71% of his passes for the year. In fact, he completed at least 70% of his passes in every single game from October 6 through the rest of the season. He was also sacked only 6 times for the year, which comes to once per 62 attempts, showing good mobility inside and outside the pocket.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by DaBallhawk21:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

How so? What has Luck really done? I think Cam Newton is by far the best QB to come out in the draft since...well Last years crop lmao...

Why do people insist on comparing college players to HOFs? people, seriously!

Luck's year, in 2010, was pretty spectacular. He threw for 32 TD's and 8 INT's, had a passer rating over 170, and completed almost 71% of his passes for the year. In fact, he completed at least 70% of his passes in every single game from October 6 through the rest of the season. He was also sacked only 6 times for the year, which comes to once per 62 attempts, showing good mobility inside and outside the pocket.

Not to mention leading an academically rigorous school's football team to a 12-1 record, one of their best seasons ever, and an impressive Orange Bowl win (with some help from Harbaugh obviously )
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Even Kaepernick says hes a project:

Quote:

I’m portrayed as a little bit more of a raw athlete than quarterbacks that run an NFL-style system, but this week I really wanted to show that my physical tools, my footwork is pretty fine tuned,” said Kaepernick, who passed for 10,098 yards, threw for 82 touchdowns and rushed for another 59 scores in his four seasons. “I’m not a long-term project going into the NFL.”

Mayock seems to think so too:

Quote:
"Kaepernick I think is a great project," Mayock said. "He's got mechanical issues, but he's got a big arm and someone is going to develop him."

Link

Uh kolohe- you need read what you posted in bold. Kaep says he "does not" think he is a project. He does say he know that he is portrayed as such.

He also said in one interview, he is shooting to start asap. Like the movie top gun when Viper says-pretty arrogrant considering the company you are in...Maverick/Colin-yes sir, Viper/Harbaugh-I like that in a fighter pilot/QB...

He doesn't think hes a "Long term project", so what I got out of it, is that he thinks hes a short term maybe 1-2 years. Now I could see if he said he wasn't a project period, then of course I wouldn't have posted it.

WildBill and all the other Kaepernick hopefuls, I don't know why you guys get so worked up when people consider Kaepernick as a project. For all we know, Kaepernick might start from day 1. I won't hold my breath though, but I won't deny his talent either.

Nah, I'm not getting worked up about Colin, I do consider any QB coming into the NFL a project. Just posting the other side of the coin to those who go the other extreme and say that Gabbert should have been the pick or Stanzi or Dalton. Or that Luck is going to be the next Marino or Manning from day one. No one knows that until they step on the field. Easy to blast someone when you are not on the hot seat and don't know whats going on like who Harbaugh wanted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just that people having making assumptions without the facts or knowing the sidtuation.

You watch local TV news anchor Joe Moore? He said, How do you keep from falling down real hard? Don't jump to conclusions. Kaep is who JH wanted and Baalke got the QB for him. As for Luck, all I said was that we don't know how Jim will view Colin after one year with him in comparision to Luck. Also that what JH saw in him has been validated in the press conferences by JH and Baalke and the show on espn just supports what Harbaugh is saying. Not saying Kaep don't make mistakes-you should remember the local boys beat Nevada and Mana Silva caught a deflected pass for an interception. I just love playing devils advocate. against some.

Good to see someone from Hawaii playing devils advocate, especially since we've seen him play against us for so many years. That's pretty much where my reasons of Kaepernick being a project at the next level. Shoot Colt Brennan would've definitely been a project if he came out his Jr. year and he was considered a late 1st-early 2nd round pick back then. And not to show my bias or anything, but Colt Brennan in college (keywords "in college"), was a much better passer than Kaepernick, and it definitely was taking time for him to adjust to the Pro's.

But with that aside, getting back to the original topic to this thread, Yes, if Alex Smith and Kaepernick do indeed struugle next year, we MUST draft Andrew Luck.

College is college...if he played for June Jones, his numbers would be out of this world, his numbers relegated to coach aults play calling, he scored what...20 TDs on the ground? I am honest when talking about Hawaii players, he didn't have the arm and his numbers are inflated as you know because of the scheme, Kaep's was not because the pistol didn't just shoot it also tried to pistol whip you upside the head.

Anyway, yes if the two fail and Luck is there then by all means, but what if Kaep is way ahead of what Luck was in his first year and go farther than Luck. Like take one step back to take two steps foward and two steps after that, where as the other guy is one step forward, then another step forward, meaning Kaep is steps from the line while Luck is two steps. Of course we don't know until after this year and only JH will truly have that insight and his actual actions will predicate his intentions.

Kaepernicks were not??? C'mon man, that's just crazy, Kaepernick was in a zone read offense that didn't have progressions. It was pretty much one-read option. Kaepernick wasn't/isn't a pocket passer, Brennan was and still had a hard time adjusting to the NFL, why would Kaepernick have a easier transition?? Why, arm-strength, if that's the case Druckenmiller should've been an All-Pro sitting behind Steve Young with a cannon for an arm and QB guru Steve Marriucci as HC.

So in the end your basically telling me, Kaepernick will have no problem whatsoever transitioning to the NFL and could start from day 1??

Most people in the football world call Kaepernick a project, but us 9er fans think hes not, but a prospect.

Prospect - Players coming from college that can be good at the next level.

Project - Player that will take time to transition while IN the NFL.

Kaep's numbers were not inflated compared to Colt because they did not throw as much as UH does and you know this. Hawaii is more shoot than run. They flood the secondary and the DB has to keep on his toes. every play, if one of them slips up then the chain keeps moving, it was like one out of the three is going to work and it normally did unless you had the athletes to cover them like Geogia did back then in the bowl game. It exposed Colt. You know it and I know it, Colt is a systems quaterback. If Kaep played for Jones his numbers would be out there and you know it-no offense to Colt, just the truth.

Kaep's offensive while not from a pro set, had a balance of running and passing. So he had to make the most of his passing. The three games that I saw of Kaep against Boise, UH and in the bowl, he went through his progressions when he had to, but he was also told to take whatever opp presents itself.

If you read my post I didn't say that he is going to be an instant success, but he is not as far behind as people think in starting, he will be much like Steve Young was or Vick was in their first year, although he will be much smarter than Vick was, Vick didn't want to listen too much. After one year of being plugged in hear and there, by the second year he will still have a lot to learn but maybe given the chance to take the reigns by JH simply because he can make things happen with his legs, and each year he'll progresss much like Young did.

So numbers can't be inflated if your working outta the Pistol running the option???

Again, this is why I think he will struggle as a passer at the next level, because hes hardly asked to. And when he does his mechanics breakdown and he becomes inconsistent, hence his game vs. Hawaii, Boise and BC. Where in those games he barely had a 60% com/pct.

But again the main point was how can one be so sure that he's further along as a passer in the NFL as rookie than other rookies?? This is why most think hes a project. Lets not forget that Vai Taua help take a lot of pressure off Kaepernick, why pass when you have a RB rushing for 20 TD's.

Kaep does what is necessary to win, he lead a comeback in a big game against Boise State. Against Hawaii he could have led them to a comeback also if his WR grabbed the ball instead letting it bounce from his hand. Plus you know Hawaii plays well against others at home because of the time difference and late start times. Against Boston he was efficient enough to win the big game.

How to tell he is further along than others? That is the million dollar question now isn't it. The things I look at is if it is from a system that inflates the QBs passing numbers like the spread. I also look at if it is a system that makes QBs look better than they are again the spread and places like any Spurrier or Urban Meyer or BYU team (from the old days). If the QB elevated the team and the team crashes after he leaves. The one thing that can't be measured is the head and heart.

As for Vai Taua, it is a question of which came first the chicken or the egg. Kaep scored 20 rushing TDs as well passed for what, 18-19?. You could say he loosened the D for Vai. Plus Kaep has Gore and more talented players surrounding him. What will make him more successful than other Rookies? His ability to extend plays and having a good rushing attack. Not to mention an offensive and QB oriented HC. Not saying he starts right away, but after a year we will see, I believe JH will keep it simple (KISS rule) like it was done for Bradford and have Kaep rely on his athletic ability and instincts and let him grow.

Like I said after a year, if anyone should know what to do if we have a chance at Luck it is Harbaugh. However, my opinion and everyone has one just like an a-hole, is that he is not as much of a project as people think and is more of a propect than given credit for. We'll see, but this damn CBA is ruining everything, even if you Manning reborn.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

I would take Manning over Aikman, why? whenever one of the two amigos were missing, the cowboys suffered, plus they had the coach with the hair an pair of steel balls. While Manning kept trucking with new WR and RB and change of coaches.
Originally posted by modninerfan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

The more interesting question is if Luck is THAT good due to Harbaugh. I will be sitting with a huge smile on my face if Luck doesn't have as good of a 2011 season because this means that Jim Harbaugh knew exactly what to do with Luck's abilities and now he has possibly an even more talented QB in Kaep to work with.

I wonder what Harbaugh could have turned Kaep into if Kaep was playing for Stanford.

he had an opportunity to pick him up didnt he? sounds like nobody wanted kaep.

A lot of people thought he was going to play baseball so they backed off.
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

I would take Manning over Aikman, why? whenever one of the two amigos were missing, the cowboys suffered, plus they had the coach with the hair an pair of steel balls. While Manning kept trucking with new WR and RB and change of coaches.

Entering the draft, not projecting pro careers.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,358
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Even Kaepernick says hes a project:

Quote:

I’m portrayed as a little bit more of a raw athlete than quarterbacks that run an NFL-style system, but this week I really wanted to show that my physical tools, my footwork is pretty fine tuned,” said Kaepernick, who passed for 10,098 yards, threw for 82 touchdowns and rushed for another 59 scores in his four seasons. “I’m not a long-term project going into the NFL.”

Mayock seems to think so too:

Quote:
"Kaepernick I think is a great project," Mayock said. "He's got mechanical issues, but he's got a big arm and someone is going to develop him."

Link

Uh kolohe- you need read what you posted in bold. Kaep says he "does not" think he is a project. He does say he know that he is portrayed as such.

He also said in one interview, he is shooting to start asap. Like the movie top gun when Viper says-pretty arrogrant considering the company you are in...Maverick/Colin-yes sir, Viper/Harbaugh-I like that in a fighter pilot/QB...

He doesn't think hes a "Long term project", so what I got out of it, is that he thinks hes a short term maybe 1-2 years. Now I could see if he said he wasn't a project period, then of course I wouldn't have posted it.

WildBill and all the other Kaepernick hopefuls, I don't know why you guys get so worked up when people consider Kaepernick as a project. For all we know, Kaepernick might start from day 1. I won't hold my breath though, but I won't deny his talent either.

Nah, I'm not getting worked up about Colin, I do consider any QB coming into the NFL a project. Just posting the other side of the coin to those who go the other extreme and say that Gabbert should have been the pick or Stanzi or Dalton. Or that Luck is going to be the next Marino or Manning from day one. No one knows that until they step on the field. Easy to blast someone when you are not on the hot seat and don't know whats going on like who Harbaugh wanted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just that people having making assumptions without the facts or knowing the sidtuation.

You watch local TV news anchor Joe Moore? He said, How do you keep from falling down real hard? Don't jump to conclusions. Kaep is who JH wanted and Baalke got the QB for him. As for Luck, all I said was that we don't know how Jim will view Colin after one year with him in comparision to Luck. Also that what JH saw in him has been validated in the press conferences by JH and Baalke and the show on espn just supports what Harbaugh is saying. Not saying Kaep don't make mistakes-you should remember the local boys beat Nevada and Mana Silva caught a deflected pass for an interception. I just love playing devils advocate. against some.

Good to see someone from Hawaii playing devils advocate, especially since we've seen him play against us for so many years. That's pretty much where my reasons of Kaepernick being a project at the next level. Shoot Colt Brennan would've definitely been a project if he came out his Jr. year and he was considered a late 1st-early 2nd round pick back then. And not to show my bias or anything, but Colt Brennan in college (keywords "in college"), was a much better passer than Kaepernick, and it definitely was taking time for him to adjust to the Pro's.

But with that aside, getting back to the original topic to this thread, Yes, if Alex Smith and Kaepernick do indeed struugle next year, we MUST draft Andrew Luck.

College is college...if he played for June Jones, his numbers would be out of this world, his numbers relegated to coach aults play calling, he scored what...20 TDs on the ground? I am honest when talking about Hawaii players, he didn't have the arm and his numbers are inflated as you know because of the scheme, Kaep's was not because the pistol didn't just shoot it also tried to pistol whip you upside the head.

Anyway, yes if the two fail and Luck is there then by all means, but what if Kaep is way ahead of what Luck was in his first year and go farther than Luck. Like take one step back to take two steps foward and two steps after that, where as the other guy is one step forward, then another step forward, meaning Kaep is steps from the line while Luck is two steps. Of course we don't know until after this year and only JH will truly have that insight and his actual actions will predicate his intentions.

Kaepernicks were not??? C'mon man, that's just crazy, Kaepernick was in a zone read offense that didn't have progressions. It was pretty much one-read option. Kaepernick wasn't/isn't a pocket passer, Brennan was and still had a hard time adjusting to the NFL, why would Kaepernick have a easier transition?? Why, arm-strength, if that's the case Druckenmiller should've been an All-Pro sitting behind Steve Young with a cannon for an arm and QB guru Steve Marriucci as HC.

So in the end your basically telling me, Kaepernick will have no problem whatsoever transitioning to the NFL and could start from day 1??

Most people in the football world call Kaepernick a project, but us 9er fans think hes not, but a prospect.

Prospect - Players coming from college that can be good at the next level.

Project - Player that will take time to transition while IN the NFL.

Kaep's numbers were not inflated compared to Colt because they did not throw as much as UH does and you know this. Hawaii is more shoot than run. They flood the secondary and the DB has to keep on his toes. every play, if one of them slips up then the chain keeps moving, it was like one out of the three is going to work and it normally did unless you had the athletes to cover them like Geogia did back then in the bowl game. It exposed Colt. You know it and I know it, Colt is a systems quaterback. If Kaep played for Jones his numbers would be out there and you know it-no offense to Colt, just the truth.

Kaep's offensive while not from a pro set, had a balance of running and passing. So he had to make the most of his passing. The three games that I saw of Kaep against Boise, UH and in the bowl, he went through his progressions when he had to, but he was also told to take whatever opp presents itself.

If you read my post I didn't say that he is going to be an instant success, but he is not as far behind as people think in starting, he will be much like Steve Young was or Vick was in their first year, although he will be much smarter than Vick was, Vick didn't want to listen too much. After one year of being plugged in hear and there, by the second year he will still have a lot to learn but maybe given the chance to take the reigns by JH simply because he can make things happen with his legs, and each year he'll progresss much like Young did.

So numbers can't be inflated if your working outta the Pistol running the option???

Again, this is why I think he will struggle as a passer at the next level, because hes hardly asked to. And when he does his mechanics breakdown and he becomes inconsistent, hence his game vs. Hawaii, Boise and BC. Where in those games he barely had a 60% com/pct.

But again the main point was how can one be so sure that he's further along as a passer in the NFL as rookie than other rookies?? This is why most think hes a project. Lets not forget that Vai Taua help take a lot of pressure off Kaepernick, why pass when you have a RB rushing for 20 TD's.

Kaep does what is necessary to win, he lead a comeback in a big game against Boise State. Against Hawaii he could have led them to a comeback also if his WR grabbed the ball instead letting it bounce from his hand. Plus you know Hawaii plays well against others at home because of the time difference and late start times. Against Boston he was efficient enough to win the big game.

How to tell he is further along than others? That is the million dollar question now isn't it. The things I look at is if it is from a system that inflates the QBs passing numbers like the spread. I also look at if it is a system that makes QBs look better than they are again the spread and places like any Spurrier or Urban Meyer or BYU team (from the old days). If the QB elevated the team and the team crashes after he leaves. The one thing that can't be measured is the head and heart.

As for Vai Taua, it is a question of which came first the chicken or the egg. Kaep scored 20 rushing TDs as well passed for what, 18-19?. You could say he loosened the D for Vai. Plus Kaep has Gore and more talented players surrounding him. What will make him more successful than other Rookies? His ability to extend plays and having a good rushing attack. Not to mention an offensive and QB oriented HC. Not saying he starts right away, but after a year we will see, I believe JH will keep it simple (KISS rule) like it was done for Bradford and have Kaep rely on his athletic ability and instincts and let him grow.

Like I said after a year, if anyone should know what to do if we have a chance at Luck it is Harbaugh. However, my opinion and everyone has one just like an a-hole, is that he is not as much of a project as people think and is more of a propect than given credit for. We'll see, but this damn CBA is ruining everything, even if you Manning reborn.

Your talking about Kaepernick as an overall player, my main point of this whole argument was how he projects to the next level as a passer. Farther along than most, we'll just have to see about that, like I said, hes never had to go through his progressions and comeback to his reads. Hes never took a 3 and 5 step drop WHILE going through his progressions. There's been so many prospects to go into the NFL draft with the same skills as Kaepernick, strong arm, tall, mobile, but from what I've seen, the ones who go far in the Pro's are the ones who have that poise and utilize the weapons around him. I just don't see that in Kaepernick, nor did I see it with Alex Smith. Like I said, my opinion might not be the most popular around here, but it is what it is....my opinion.
If you have a chance to take luck, you do it..I do not care how much upside kap has,
you grab your star quarterback.

The guy was sick in 2010. 32 tds and a 71% completion rating...harbaugh did a damn good job
coaching this kid up, and would love to have the two be reunited. This whole forum would be on
their knees thanking the football gods and bill walsh rip..lol

Now getting the 1st pick or aquiring the 1st pick is gonna be tricky.
What has to happen is if Smith screws up and loses us our first 5 out of 6
then coach benches him and puts in kaepernick for the rest of the season.
I think it is very possible to lose 5 of 6..

Seattle at home I can see us winning
Cowgirls at home I want us beat the queers but could be tough game
due to the fact they may have soaked up more time to get Garrets offense
down due to us being locked out.
@Bengals, tough game especially if palmer stays
@Eagles, I just do not see us winning this one
Bucs at home we seen what they did to us at home last year,although
I believe we play em better this year cuz we dont have dingleberry as our
coach thank God.
@lions..tough game before the bye where we could see shaun hill beating us
cuz I predict stafford wont make it to week 2 lol..detroits a good upcoming team w
with that d line...

So I could potentially see us at 1 -5 or 2-4, setting up kap to lead the rest of the
season which could end with us at 4-12 with possibly the #1 pick.

Or another scenario is if a team who has the #1 is not QB needy and we are top 10
then we trade our first, second, fourth in 2012 and our first second and fourth
in 2013 and maybe even a second and fourth in 2014...

But if a team with the #1 pick needs a QB then we are not getting lucky

[/b]
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 21,105
Originally posted by modninerfan:
Originally posted by Joecool:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

The more interesting question is if Luck is THAT good due to Harbaugh. I will be sitting with a huge smile on my face if Luck doesn't have as good of a 2011 season because this means that Jim Harbaugh knew exactly what to do with Luck's abilities and now he has possibly an even more talented QB in Kaep to work with.

I wonder what Harbaugh could have turned Kaep into if Kaep was playing for Stanford.

he had an opportunity to pick him up didnt he? sounds like nobody wanted kaep.

Maybe Kap is just a late bloomer. He looks lanky now, I can just imagine how he looked coming out of high school.
Yes, of course you do. Luck is the closest thing to a sure bet since Elway. You don't pass that up for a 2nd round project.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Even Kaepernick says hes a project:

Quote:

I’m portrayed as a little bit more of a raw athlete than quarterbacks that run an NFL-style system, but this week I really wanted to show that my physical tools, my footwork is pretty fine tuned,” said Kaepernick, who passed for 10,098 yards, threw for 82 touchdowns and rushed for another 59 scores in his four seasons. “I’m not a long-term project going into the NFL.”

Mayock seems to think so too:

Quote:
"Kaepernick I think is a great project," Mayock said. "He's got mechanical issues, but he's got a big arm and someone is going to develop him."

Link

Uh kolohe- you need read what you posted in bold. Kaep says he "does not" think he is a project. He does say he know that he is portrayed as such.

He also said in one interview, he is shooting to start asap. Like the movie top gun when Viper says-pretty arrogrant considering the company you are in...Maverick/Colin-yes sir, Viper/Harbaugh-I like that in a fighter pilot/QB...

He doesn't think hes a "Long term project", so what I got out of it, is that he thinks hes a short term maybe 1-2 years. Now I could see if he said he wasn't a project period, then of course I wouldn't have posted it.

WildBill and all the other Kaepernick hopefuls, I don't know why you guys get so worked up when people consider Kaepernick as a project. For all we know, Kaepernick might start from day 1. I won't hold my breath though, but I won't deny his talent either.

Nah, I'm not getting worked up about Colin, I do consider any QB coming into the NFL a project. Just posting the other side of the coin to those who go the other extreme and say that Gabbert should have been the pick or Stanzi or Dalton. Or that Luck is going to be the next Marino or Manning from day one. No one knows that until they step on the field. Easy to blast someone when you are not on the hot seat and don't know whats going on like who Harbaugh wanted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just that people having making assumptions without the facts or knowing the sidtuation.

You watch local TV news anchor Joe Moore? He said, How do you keep from falling down real hard? Don't jump to conclusions. Kaep is who JH wanted and Baalke got the QB for him. As for Luck, all I said was that we don't know how Jim will view Colin after one year with him in comparision to Luck. Also that what JH saw in him has been validated in the press conferences by JH and Baalke and the show on espn just supports what Harbaugh is saying. Not saying Kaep don't make mistakes-you should remember the local boys beat Nevada and Mana Silva caught a deflected pass for an interception. I just love playing devils advocate. against some.

Good to see someone from Hawaii playing devils advocate, especially since we've seen him play against us for so many years. That's pretty much where my reasons of Kaepernick being a project at the next level. Shoot Colt Brennan would've definitely been a project if he came out his Jr. year and he was considered a late 1st-early 2nd round pick back then. And not to show my bias or anything, but Colt Brennan in college (keywords "in college"), was a much better passer than Kaepernick, and it definitely was taking time for him to adjust to the Pro's.

But with that aside, getting back to the original topic to this thread, Yes, if Alex Smith and Kaepernick do indeed struugle next year, we MUST draft Andrew Luck.

College is college...if he played for June Jones, his numbers would be out of this world, his numbers relegated to coach aults play calling, he scored what...20 TDs on the ground? I am honest when talking about Hawaii players, he didn't have the arm and his numbers are inflated as you know because of the scheme, Kaep's was not because the pistol didn't just shoot it also tried to pistol whip you upside the head.

Anyway, yes if the two fail and Luck is there then by all means, but what if Kaep is way ahead of what Luck was in his first year and go farther than Luck. Like take one step back to take two steps foward and two steps after that, where as the other guy is one step forward, then another step forward, meaning Kaep is steps from the line while Luck is two steps. Of course we don't know until after this year and only JH will truly have that insight and his actual actions will predicate his intentions.

Kaepernicks were not??? C'mon man, that's just crazy, Kaepernick was in a zone read offense that didn't have progressions. It was pretty much one-read option. Kaepernick wasn't/isn't a pocket passer, Brennan was and still had a hard time adjusting to the NFL, why would Kaepernick have a easier transition?? Why, arm-strength, if that's the case Druckenmiller should've been an All-Pro sitting behind Steve Young with a cannon for an arm and QB guru Steve Marriucci as HC.

So in the end your basically telling me, Kaepernick will have no problem whatsoever transitioning to the NFL and could start from day 1??

Most people in the football world call Kaepernick a project, but us 9er fans think hes not, but a prospect.

Prospect - Players coming from college that can be good at the next level.

Project - Player that will take time to transition while IN the NFL.

Kaep's numbers were not inflated compared to Colt because they did not throw as much as UH does and you know this. Hawaii is more shoot than run. They flood the secondary and the DB has to keep on his toes. every play, if one of them slips up then the chain keeps moving, it was like one out of the three is going to work and it normally did unless you had the athletes to cover them like Geogia did back then in the bowl game. It exposed Colt. You know it and I know it, Colt is a systems quaterback. If Kaep played for Jones his numbers would be out there and you know it-no offense to Colt, just the truth.

Kaep's offensive while not from a pro set, had a balance of running and passing. So he had to make the most of his passing. The three games that I saw of Kaep against Boise, UH and in the bowl, he went through his progressions when he had to, but he was also told to take whatever opp presents itself.

If you read my post I didn't say that he is going to be an instant success, but he is not as far behind as people think in starting, he will be much like Steve Young was or Vick was in their first year, although he will be much smarter than Vick was, Vick didn't want to listen too much. After one year of being plugged in hear and there, by the second year he will still have a lot to learn but maybe given the chance to take the reigns by JH simply because he can make things happen with his legs, and each year he'll progresss much like Young did.

So numbers can't be inflated if your working outta the Pistol running the option???

Again, this is why I think he will struggle as a passer at the next level, because hes hardly asked to. And when he does his mechanics breakdown and he becomes inconsistent, hence his game vs. Hawaii, Boise and BC. Where in those games he barely had a 60% com/pct.

But again the main point was how can one be so sure that he's further along as a passer in the NFL as rookie than other rookies?? This is why most think hes a project. Lets not forget that Vai Taua help take a lot of pressure off Kaepernick, why pass when you have a RB rushing for 20 TD's.

Kaep does what is necessary to win, he lead a comeback in a big game against Boise State. Against Hawaii he could have led them to a comeback also if his WR grabbed the ball instead letting it bounce from his hand. Plus you know Hawaii plays well against others at home because of the time difference and late start times. Against Boston he was efficient enough to win the big game.

How to tell he is further along than others? That is the million dollar question now isn't it. The things I look at is if it is from a system that inflates the QBs passing numbers like the spread. I also look at if it is a system that makes QBs look better than they are again the spread and places like any Spurrier or Urban Meyer or BYU team (from the old days). If the QB elevated the team and the team crashes after he leaves. The one thing that can't be measured is the head and heart.

As for Vai Taua, it is a question of which came first the chicken or the egg. Kaep scored 20 rushing TDs as well passed for what, 18-19?. You could say he loosened the D for Vai. Plus Kaep has Gore and more talented players surrounding him. What will make him more successful than other Rookies? His ability to extend plays and having a good rushing attack. Not to mention an offensive and QB oriented HC. Not saying he starts right away, but after a year we will see, I believe JH will keep it simple (KISS rule) like it was done for Bradford and have Kaep rely on his athletic ability and instincts and let him grow.

Like I said after a year, if anyone should know what to do if we have a chance at Luck it is Harbaugh. However, my opinion and everyone has one just like an a-hole, is that he is not as much of a project as people think and is more of a propect than given credit for. We'll see, but this damn CBA is ruining everything, even if you Manning reborn.

Your talking about Kaepernick as an overall player, my main point of this whole argument was how he projects to the next level as a passer. Farther along than most, we'll just have to see about that, like I said, hes never had to go through his progressions and comeback to his reads. Hes never took a 3 and 5 step drop WHILE going through his progressions. There's been so many prospects to go into the NFL draft with the same skills as Kaepernick, strong arm, tall, mobile, but from what I've seen, the ones who go far in the Pro's are the ones who have that poise and utilize the weapons around him. I just don't see that in Kaepernick, nor did I see it with Alex Smith. Like I said, my opinion might not be the most popular around here, but it is what it is....my opinion.

A lot of people didn't like McNabb or Young or Doug Williams or.....all in the same vein as Kaep. You said he's never gone through his progressions, I say I have seen him go throught his from the progressions at least three, often times when it is not a planned rollout, things breakdown so he buys time, but keeps his eyes downfield and either goes to the third read or back to his first who has broken off his pattern. How can you not look at Kaep for his overall ability? That IS part of being a passer. extending the play as JH has said, while looking downfield and if the LB and DBs have their backs turned, takes it up field. This then causes the D to spy on the QB thus loosening the coverage. The same way a good running back helps sell play action pass.

Yes we will see and I also have my opinions, I b***hed tooth and nail about the Smith pick and thought he wasn't a franchise QB, not saying I am right but, I don't get the feeling with Kaep. like I did with Alex, I think he will be a McNabb or Willilams or Cunningham, Young better yet, and for a second round pick and after what we have gone through lately, that is welcome. I also didn't like Druckenmiller and Carmmzi pick. Wanted Plumber during that time period.

I have no doubt that Alex will be better, but he is still not the answer, the reason is JH and Roman will not ask him to do things they know he cannot do. Stll, I don't like Alex.

Like someone said JH will have the inside info on both if this situation should arise, we will see.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

I would take Manning over Aikman, why? whenever one of the two amigos were missing, the cowboys suffered, plus they had the coach with the hair an pair of steel balls. While Manning kept trucking with new WR and RB and change of coaches.

Entering the draft, not projecting pro careers.

If you are truly sansing the pro careers and not using that, at the time Drew Bledsoe and Jeff George were up there if not better according to many the prognisticators, maybe not to you but to the ones that make a living off of this.
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

I would take Manning over Aikman, why? whenever one of the two amigos were missing, the cowboys suffered, plus they had the coach with the hair an pair of steel balls. While Manning kept trucking with new WR and RB and change of coaches.

Entering the draft, not projecting pro careers.

If you are truly sansing the pro careers and not using that, at the time Drew Bledsoe and Jeff George were up there if not better according to many the prognisticators, maybe not to you but to the ones that make a living off of this.

Blah, Blah, Blah. His point is that he is the best QB prospect to come into the NFL in 20 something years.