There are 123 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

If we got the 1st pick next year, do we take Luck even though we've got Kap?

Big if's...we'll see, but just having Kap on our roster does not rule out any moves the FO will or can make,imo
[ Edited by highway49 on May 16, 2011 at 1:36 PM ]
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Even Kaepernick says hes a project:

Quote:

I’m portrayed as a little bit more of a raw athlete than quarterbacks that run an NFL-style system, but this week I really wanted to show that my physical tools, my footwork is pretty fine tuned,” said Kaepernick, who passed for 10,098 yards, threw for 82 touchdowns and rushed for another 59 scores in his four seasons. “I’m not a long-term project going into the NFL.”

Mayock seems to think so too:

Quote:
"Kaepernick I think is a great project," Mayock said. "He's got mechanical issues, but he's got a big arm and someone is going to develop him."

Link

Uh kolohe- you need read what you posted in bold. Kaep says he "does not" think he is a project. He does say he know that he is portrayed as such.

He also said in one interview, he is shooting to start asap. Like the movie top gun when Viper says-pretty arrogrant considering the company you are in...Maverick/Colin-yes sir, Viper/Harbaugh-I like that in a fighter pilot/QB...

He doesn't think hes a "Long term project", so what I got out of it, is that he thinks hes a short term maybe 1-2 years. Now I could see if he said he wasn't a project period, then of course I wouldn't have posted it.

WildBill and all the other Kaepernick hopefuls, I don't know why you guys get so worked up when people consider Kaepernick as a project. For all we know, Kaepernick might start from day 1. I won't hold my breath though, but I won't deny his talent either.

Nah, I'm not getting worked up about Colin, I do consider any QB coming into the NFL a project. Just posting the other side of the coin to those who go the other extreme and say that Gabbert should have been the pick or Stanzi or Dalton. Or that Luck is going to be the next Marino or Manning from day one. No one knows that until they step on the field. Easy to blast someone when you are not on the hot seat and don't know whats going on like who Harbaugh wanted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just that people having making assumptions without the facts or knowing the sidtuation.

You watch local TV news anchor Joe Moore? He said, How do you keep from falling down real hard? Don't jump to conclusions. Kaep is who JH wanted and Baalke got the QB for him. As for Luck, all I said was that we don't know how Jim will view Colin after one year with him in comparision to Luck. Also that what JH saw in him has been validated in the press conferences by JH and Baalke and the show on espn just supports what Harbaugh is saying. Not saying Kaep don't make mistakes-you should remember the local boys beat Nevada and Mana Silva caught a deflected pass for an interception. I just love playing devils advocate. against some.

Good to see someone from Hawaii playing devils advocate, especially since we've seen him play against us for so many years. That's pretty much where my reasons of Kaepernick being a project at the next level. Shoot Colt Brennan would've definitely been a project if he came out his Jr. year and he was considered a late 1st-early 2nd round pick back then. And not to show my bias or anything, but Colt Brennan in college (keywords "in college"), was a much better passer than Kaepernick, and it definitely was taking time for him to adjust to the Pro's.

But with that aside, getting back to the original topic to this thread, Yes, if Alex Smith and Kaepernick do indeed struugle next year, we MUST draft Andrew Luck.

College is college...if he played for June Jones, his numbers would be out of this world, his numbers relegated to coach aults play calling, he scored what...20 TDs on the ground? I am honest when talking about Hawaii players, he didn't have the arm and his numbers are inflated as you know because of the scheme, Kaep's was not because the pistol didn't just shoot it also tried to pistol whip you upside the head.

Anyway, yes if the two fail and Luck is there then by all means, but what if Kaep is way ahead of what Luck was in his first year and go farther than Luck. Like take one step back to take two steps foward and two steps after that, where as the other guy is one step forward, then another step forward, meaning Kaep is steps from the line while Luck is two steps. Of course we don't know until after this year and only JH will truly have that insight and his actual actions will predicate his intentions.

Kaepernicks were not??? C'mon man, that's just crazy, Kaepernick was in a zone read offense that didn't have progressions. It was pretty much one-read option. Kaepernick wasn't/isn't a pocket passer, Brennan was and still had a hard time adjusting to the NFL, why would Kaepernick have a easier transition?? Why, arm-strength, if that's the case Druckenmiller should've been an All-Pro sitting behind Steve Young with a cannon for an arm and QB guru Steve Marriucci as HC.

So in the end your basically telling me, Kaepernick will have no problem whatsoever transitioning to the NFL and could start from day 1??

Most people in the football world call Kaepernick a project, but us 9er fans think hes not, but a prospect.

Prospect - Players coming from college that can be good at the next level.

Project - Player that will take time to transition while IN the NFL.

Kaep's numbers were not inflated compared to Colt because they did not throw as much as UH does and you know this. Hawaii is more shoot than run. They flood the secondary and the DB has to keep on his toes. every play, if one of them slips up then the chain keeps moving, it was like one out of the three is going to work and it normally did unless you had the athletes to cover them like Geogia did back then in the bowl game. It exposed Colt. You know it and I know it, Colt is a systems quaterback. If Kaep played for Jones his numbers would be out there and you know it-no offense to Colt, just the truth.

Kaep's offensive while not from a pro set, had a balance of running and passing. So he had to make the most of his passing. The three games that I saw of Kaep against Boise, UH and in the bowl, he went through his progressions when he had to, but he was also told to take whatever opp presents itself.

If you read my post I didn't say that he is going to be an instant success, but he is not as far behind as people think in starting, he will be much like Steve Young was or Vick was in their first year, although he will be much smarter than Vick was, Vick didn't want to listen too much. After one year of being plugged in hear and there, by the second year he will still have a lot to learn but maybe given the chance to take the reigns by JH simply because he can make things happen with his legs, and each year he'll progresss much like Young did.
  • mod
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 28,963
Draft Luck, Trade Kaep to the raidas for a 2nd and 4th
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Jakemall hit the nail on the head. The 9ers have the perfect person to evaluate Luck as an NFL prospect and if he decides to go after him I would give him carte blanche. If he passes we will know that his trust in CK and/or AS is real.

Luck's performance last year was special. He made extremely good decisions and was much better than Locker was the year before...in a pro style offense.

My hope would be that Harbaugh likes CK/AS so much that the 9ers can use the pick(s) on other needs...WR, CB, etc.

That is what I think also, however people are saying no way, we have to take luck no matter what. After a year JH will know what he has and if the keys can be entrusted to Kaep, who on this team is not far off from taking the reigns after one year, it would be another story with if he were on the Pats, etc,
if we have the #1 pick next year... ah man.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 31,124
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by WildBill:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Even Kaepernick says hes a project:

Quote:

I’m portrayed as a little bit more of a raw athlete than quarterbacks that run an NFL-style system, but this week I really wanted to show that my physical tools, my footwork is pretty fine tuned,” said Kaepernick, who passed for 10,098 yards, threw for 82 touchdowns and rushed for another 59 scores in his four seasons. “I’m not a long-term project going into the NFL.”

Mayock seems to think so too:

Quote:
"Kaepernick I think is a great project," Mayock said. "He's got mechanical issues, but he's got a big arm and someone is going to develop him."

Link

Uh kolohe- you need read what you posted in bold. Kaep says he "does not" think he is a project. He does say he know that he is portrayed as such.

He also said in one interview, he is shooting to start asap. Like the movie top gun when Viper says-pretty arrogrant considering the company you are in...Maverick/Colin-yes sir, Viper/Harbaugh-I like that in a fighter pilot/QB...

He doesn't think hes a "Long term project", so what I got out of it, is that he thinks hes a short term maybe 1-2 years. Now I could see if he said he wasn't a project period, then of course I wouldn't have posted it.

WildBill and all the other Kaepernick hopefuls, I don't know why you guys get so worked up when people consider Kaepernick as a project. For all we know, Kaepernick might start from day 1. I won't hold my breath though, but I won't deny his talent either.

Nah, I'm not getting worked up about Colin, I do consider any QB coming into the NFL a project. Just posting the other side of the coin to those who go the other extreme and say that Gabbert should have been the pick or Stanzi or Dalton. Or that Luck is going to be the next Marino or Manning from day one. No one knows that until they step on the field. Easy to blast someone when you are not on the hot seat and don't know whats going on like who Harbaugh wanted. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just that people having making assumptions without the facts or knowing the sidtuation.

You watch local TV news anchor Joe Moore? He said, How do you keep from falling down real hard? Don't jump to conclusions. Kaep is who JH wanted and Baalke got the QB for him. As for Luck, all I said was that we don't know how Jim will view Colin after one year with him in comparision to Luck. Also that what JH saw in him has been validated in the press conferences by JH and Baalke and the show on espn just supports what Harbaugh is saying. Not saying Kaep don't make mistakes-you should remember the local boys beat Nevada and Mana Silva caught a deflected pass for an interception. I just love playing devils advocate. against some.

Good to see someone from Hawaii playing devils advocate, especially since we've seen him play against us for so many years. That's pretty much where my reasons of Kaepernick being a project at the next level. Shoot Colt Brennan would've definitely been a project if he came out his Jr. year and he was considered a late 1st-early 2nd round pick back then. And not to show my bias or anything, but Colt Brennan in college (keywords "in college"), was a much better passer than Kaepernick, and it definitely was taking time for him to adjust to the Pro's.

But with that aside, getting back to the original topic to this thread, Yes, if Alex Smith and Kaepernick do indeed struugle next year, we MUST draft Andrew Luck.

College is college...if he played for June Jones, his numbers would be out of this world, his numbers relegated to coach aults play calling, he scored what...20 TDs on the ground? I am honest when talking about Hawaii players, he didn't have the arm and his numbers are inflated as you know because of the scheme, Kaep's was not because the pistol didn't just shoot it also tried to pistol whip you upside the head.

Anyway, yes if the two fail and Luck is there then by all means, but what if Kaep is way ahead of what Luck was in his first year and go farther than Luck. Like take one step back to take two steps foward and two steps after that, where as the other guy is one step forward, then another step forward, meaning Kaep is steps from the line while Luck is two steps. Of course we don't know until after this year and only JH will truly have that insight and his actual actions will predicate his intentions.

Kaepernicks were not??? C'mon man, that's just crazy, Kaepernick was in a zone read offense that didn't have progressions. It was pretty much one-read option. Kaepernick wasn't/isn't a pocket passer, Brennan was and still had a hard time adjusting to the NFL, why would Kaepernick have a easier transition?? Why, arm-strength, if that's the case Druckenmiller should've been an All-Pro sitting behind Steve Young with a cannon for an arm and QB guru Steve Marriucci as HC.

So in the end your basically telling me, Kaepernick will have no problem whatsoever transitioning to the NFL and could start from day 1??

Most people in the football world call Kaepernick a project, but us 9er fans think hes not, but a prospect.

Prospect - Players coming from college that can be good at the next level.

Project - Player that will take time to transition while IN the NFL.

Kaep's numbers were not inflated compared to Colt because they did not throw as much as UH does and you know this. Hawaii is more shoot than run. They flood the secondary and the DB has to keep on his toes. every play, if one of them slips up then the chain keeps moving, it was like one out of the three is going to work and it normally did unless you had the athletes to cover them like Geogia did back then in the bowl game. It exposed Colt. You know it and I know it, Colt is a systems quaterback. If Kaep played for Jones his numbers would be out there and you know it-no offense to Colt, just the truth.

Kaep's offensive while not from a pro set, had a balance of running and passing. So he had to make the most of his passing. The three games that I saw of Kaep against Boise, UH and in the bowl, he went through his progressions when he had to, but he was also told to take whatever opp presents itself.

If you read my post I didn't say that he is going to be an instant success, but he is not as far behind as people think in starting, he will be much like Steve Young was or Vick was in their first year, although he will be much smarter than Vick was, Vick didn't want to listen too much. After one year of being plugged in hear and there, by the second year he will still have a lot to learn but maybe given the chance to take the reigns by JH simply because he can make things happen with his legs, and each year he'll progresss much like Young did.

So numbers can't be inflated if your working outta the Pistol running the option???

Again, this is why I think he will struggle as a passer at the next level, because hes hardly asked to. And when he does his mechanics breakdown and he becomes inconsistent, hence his game vs. Hawaii, Boise and BC. Where in those games he barely had a 60% com/pct.

But again the main point was how can one be so sure that he's further along as a passer in the NFL as rookie than other rookies?? This is why most think hes a project. Lets not forget that Vai Taua help take a lot of pressure off Kaepernick, why pass when you have a RB rushing for 20 TD's.
why worry about next years draft pick...we can't even agree on this year!
This thread is not intriguing....how about we talk about the fact that this year is a disaster because theyre all so damn greedy!
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,553
I don't know. Draft Luck and keep Kap as our primary backup a few years to develop. Then trade him for butt load of draft picks.
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

How so? What has Luck really done? I think Cam Newton is by far the best QB to come out in the draft since...well Last years crop lmao...

Why do people insist on comparing college players to HOFs? people, seriously!
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

I think it was also telling that a lot of the QB needy teams we were so worried about leading up to the draft this year passed on QBs entirely - there's potentially as many as 3 bigger fish available next year.
Originally posted by Digger:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

I think it was also telling that a lot of the QB needy teams we were so worried about leading up to the draft this year passed on QBs entirely - there's potentially as many as 3 bigger fish available next year.

The top three QB's: Luck, Landry and Barkley will probably be graded better pro prospects than any from this current class, if they all come out next year. That is one reason I wanted the team to bypass a signal caller from this year's class.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

The more interesting question is if Luck is THAT good due to Harbaugh. I will be sitting with a huge smile on my face if Luck doesn't have as good of a 2011 season because this means that Jim Harbaugh knew exactly what to do with Luck's abilities and now he has possibly an even more talented QB in Kaep to work with.

I wonder what Harbaugh could have turned Kaep into if Kaep was playing for Stanford.
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Originally posted by Digger:
Originally posted by MadDog49er:
I think Luck is the best QB prospect to enter the draft since Troy Aikman in 1989. Better than Bradford, Stafford, both Mannings, Vick, etc.

The best thing the Niners can do this season is to lose every single game. Luck is the real deal and the team that drafts him will be a playoff team within a very short window of time.

I do agree with an earlier poster than we could see teams intentionally tank toward the end of the year in order to draft him.

I think it was also telling that a lot of the QB needy teams we were so worried about leading up to the draft this year passed on QBs entirely - there's potentially as many as 3 bigger fish available next year.

The top three QB's: Luck, Landry and Barkley will probably be graded better pro prospects than any from this current class, if they all come out next year. That is one reason I wanted the team to bypass a signal caller from this year's class.

Agreed, but I think only taking one in the 1st would have really prevented us from taking one of those 3 if we're in position to next year.