robert quinn vs von miller

Originally posted by gravelburn:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
If the team can assure themselves that character is not an issue Quinn would be my choice because he seems to have the killer instinct needed in a pass rusher.

I don't think character is an issue. Seems just like a case of a young guy being tempted by some luxuries he couldn't afford. Sure he shouldn't have taken agent bribes, but beyond being a stupid decision on his part, it is understandable. Certainly doesn't mean he's a bad kid. If anything, I'd think he'd learned his lesson.

Well, all teams should do their due diligence before drafting a guy, so I would assume that if the 9ers do take him he will have dispelled any qualms they have. Someone complained about your speculation, but anything we say now is speculation...kind of like almost everything on these threads! So I agree that, for us, it's not a concern because it won't happen unless he has been cleared by the brain trust.

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by gravelburn:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by Rsrkshn:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by gravelburn:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
If the team can assure themselves that character is not an issue Quinn would be my choice because he seems to have the killer instinct needed in a pass rusher.

I don't think character is an issue. Seems just like a case of a young guy being tempted by some luxuries he couldn't afford. Sure he shouldn't have taken agent bribes, but beyond being a stupid decision on his part, it is understandable. Certainly doesn't mean he's a bad kid. If anything, I'd think he'd learned his lesson.

To say it isn't a character issue is an attempt to try to cover-up the wrong he did. It's not like he was a 14 year old, he was a 19 or 20 year old man when he made his choices. He knew what he did was wrong, but decided to ignore the rules anyway. He doesn't get a free pass because he is not 30 years old. What he did was wrong and one has to question the kind of character he has that would allow him to choose wrong instead of right.

We have no clue whether Quinn has learned his lesson, since he was suspended for the whole year. Only Quinn knows if he learned his lesson, or if the only thing he is sorry about is that he got caught.

Anything stated about his character is just speculation. You can only judge a person on what they do with their actions, not on what they say with their mouth, since someone can easily lie. Just remember, Quinn had to be CAUGHT, he didn't turn himself in.

So how do you feel about the whole Rothlesberger (sp?) experience?

And was his "character" issue one of a more egregious variety in your opinion or not?

And how is it all turning out now?

And are you OK with it?

I don't like Roethlisberger. The Rooney's were on the verge of releasing him after all his crap, but decided to give him one last chance.

Every person has an opportunity to redeem himself though, and only time and action will tell if that person genuinely desires to be a better person or if they are just "jumping through the hoops" so they can get paid and be in the public eye. So, I'm not condemning Quinn, nor should anyone else, for he may be repentant and it may indeed just be a regrettable mistake on his part.

However, before I invest a #7 pick in him, or anyone, I better have an extremely thorough understanding of this guy and whether it is just a one time thing or a sign of things to come. This is where interviews and being around the guy come into play.

Character is an important consideration for any player being considered. Quinn getting caught suggests that a) he's not a saint, b) he's possibly not too bright (for doing something so blatant to get caught for it) and c) he could potentially be a me-first guy. But the fact that he got caught only really proves that a) he's not a saint. But then again who is?

I know plenty of people I consider to be good people who have done some dumb things. That doesn't mean they're always dumb or that they're not good team players. So in reviewing him along-side other prospects, for me at least, the fact that he did what he did doesn't raise any character flags for me. Maybe he's a dumb, selfish a**hole, but I don't see that as any more likely than the next guy being a dumb, selfish a**hole.

Who is a saint? A saint is a saint and there are a lot of those through out history, even if not common. Everyone should strive to be one.

Well, in spite of speculation, I don't think every prospect is a dumb selfish a**hole, but Quinn may have shown himself to be one. That is a mark against him that another prospect may not have. It becomes magnified a 100 times when you are considering that same prospect for the #7 overall pick. What if he is so dumb that he ends up shooting himself in the leg like Plaxico, or some other equally stupid law-breaking thing?

You have to be more cautious with a guy like Quinn, even if he is a great athlete. It only takes one stupid move to get you put in jail, arrested, or a disturbance with the rest of the team.

I prefer high character guys myself, especially when talking about investing that kind of money in someone. Then again, Quinn might be a high character guy and just made a mistake out of desperation for money. A lot of these players come from economically harsh situations, so that can play a part. That is why teams do a lot of homework on guys. We will see.

Yeah but just because he took some money doesn't mean he's a rapist or a dog killer or anything. Technically it's wrong and it was selfish but he probably didn't think he'd get caught and it ddn't hurt anyone if he hadn't.

I think #7 is too high for Miller. I like Aldon Smith more, and maybe even Houston.

Originally posted by NinerBuff:


Good Info. Thanks.

For the record, getting either of these guys would be a huge upgrade for us.

Imagine if we could resign Lawson and Spikes, our LB corp would be

Lawson - Spikes - Willis - Quinn/Miller

Lawson is the worst of the bunch. Its nice when the only knock on his game is an inconsistent pass rusher, when you have pass rushing fiend on the other side, with Justin Smith to provide the pass rush from that side.

If Manny could come back for a reasonable contract that would be a very good group with hopefully Bowman getting better and taking over for Takeo in a year or two. Lawson isn't a great pass rusher but he is a good overall linebacker. Having a good pass rusher on the other side should give him more opportunities to make something happen.

I have a lot of respect for both players and think they will both be very good in the NFL. But if I had to choose, something says Quinn...

I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

Why isn't it close???

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

Why isn't it close???

There's a good amount of video on Quinn all over the internet (game video, not highlight compilations...real video--good plays and bad). The guy is just amazing. Size, speed, quickness, anticipation, play recognition, instincts, the power with which he tackles and hits people. He looks like Lawrence Taylor. This is in no way a nock on Miller (who I'm not a HUGE fan of due to his weak tackling...can he really bring down Big Ben or Steven Jackson???). Rather this is a reflection of my view of Quinn. No denying Miller's quickness and ability to get into the backfield. But Quinn, IMO, is a very very rare prospect.

Do not want Quinn at all.

Miller in a landslide.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Do not want Quinn at all.

Miller in a landslide.

Please explain why.

Blanket statments like this suck.

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

This... all day long.

Quinn is a blazer in his own right, and unlike Miller, he can fight through blocks and is 260-ish lbs. Miller would get victimized in the run game and easily stoned if a blocker gets in front of him.

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

This... all day long.

Quinn is a blazer in his own right, and unlike Miller, he can fight through blocks and is 260-ish lbs. Miller would get victimized in the run game and easily stoned if a blocker gets in front of him.

And he's a really poor tackler. Miller could be the greatest pass rusher of all time....if we were playing two hand touch...unfortunately we are not, and you have to be able to bring the ball carrier or QB down. This will limit his effectiveness at the next level IMO

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

This... all day long.

Quinn is a blazer in his own right, and unlike Miller, he can fight through blocks and is 260-ish lbs. Miller would get victimized in the run game and easily stoned if a blocker gets in front of him.

And he's a really poor tackler. Miller could be the greatest pass rusher of all time....if we were playing two hand touch...unfortunately we are not, and you have to be able to bring the ball carrier or QB down. This will limit his effectiveness at the next level IMO

I agree... and teams will use his speed against him with lots of misdirection also.

If we want to stick a light-weight with speed in there? Just throw Mays in on a 3 safety package and blitz him all day. Same difference... straight speed with the hope that he can run AROUND blocks.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Do not want Quinn at all.

Miller in a landslide.

Please explain why.

Blanket statments like this suck.

Because while Miller was winning the Butkus Award (as did Willis at Ole Miss), Quinn was sitting out a full year of his development .

Because what exactly has Quinn done?? To quote CBS Spoots, "scouts would also be wise to investigate Quinn's inconsistencies on the field. His production came in bunches and typically against inferior talent. Six of his 11 sacks in 2009 came in two games (Duke, Virginia). His other sacks were split between East Carolina (two), Georgia Southern (one), The Citadel (one) and Boston College (one)."

Also to quote CBS Sports, "Quinn is eerily similar to the Giants' first-round pick last year, former South Florida star Jason Pierre-Paul". Is that who we want with the #7?

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by RollinWith21n52:
I don't think it's close....

Quinn>>>>>Miller

This... all day long.

Quinn is a blazer in his own right, and unlike Miller, he can fight through blocks and is 260-ish lbs. Miller would get victimized in the run game and easily stoned if a blocker gets in front of him.

And he's a really poor tackler. Miller could be the greatest pass rusher of all time....if we were playing two hand touch...unfortunately we are not, and you have to be able to bring the ball carrier or QB down. This will limit his effectiveness at the next level IMO

I agree... and teams will use his speed against him with lots of misdirection also.

If we want to stick a light-weight with speed in there? Just throw Mays in on a 3 safety package and blitz him all day. Same difference... straight speed with the hope that he can run AROUND blocks.

Agreed. But I do like Miller because you can't argue the production. Still, Quinn is a different story. Unbelievable player.