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robert quinn vs von miller

robert quinn vs von miller

I'm taking Quinn, Good pass rusher and I like his size holding up against the run.
Miller is a great player, but he's a VERY dirty player...going for knees, blasting QBs after the play etc
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by gravelburn:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
If the team can assure themselves that character is not an issue Quinn would be my choice because he seems to have the killer instinct needed in a pass rusher.

I don't think character is an issue. Seems just like a case of a young guy being tempted by some luxuries he couldn't afford. Sure he shouldn't have taken agent bribes, but beyond being a stupid decision on his part, it is understandable. Certainly doesn't mean he's a bad kid. If anything, I'd think he'd learned his lesson.

To say it isn't a character issue is an attempt to try to cover-up the wrong he did. It's not like he was a 14 year old, he was a 19 or 20 year old man when he made his choices. He knew what he did was wrong, but decided to ignore the rules anyway. He doesn't get a free pass because he is not 30 years old. What he did was wrong and one has to question the kind of character he has that would allow him to choose wrong instead of right.

We have no clue whether Quinn has learned his lesson, since he was suspended for the whole year. Only Quinn knows if he learned his lesson, or if the only thing he is sorry about is that he got caught.

Anything stated about his character is just speculation. You can only judge a person on what they do with their actions, not on what they say with their mouth, since someone can easily lie. Just remember, Quinn had to be CAUGHT, he didn't turn himself in.

So how do you feel about the whole Rothlesberger (sp?) experience?

And was his "character" issue one of a more egregious variety in your opinion or not?

And how is it all turning out now?

And are you OK with it?

I don't like Roethlisberger. The Rooney's were on the verge of releasing him after all his crap, but decided to give him one last chance.

Every person has an opportunity to redeem himself though, and only time and action will tell if that person genuinely desires to be a better person or if they are just "jumping through the hoops" so they can get paid and be in the public eye. So, I'm not condemning Quinn, nor should anyone else, for he may be repentant and it may indeed just be a regrettable mistake on his part.

However, before I invest a #7 pick in him, or anyone, I better have an extremely thorough understanding of this guy and whether it is just a one time thing or a sign of things to come. This is where interviews and being around the guy come into play.

Character is an important consideration for any player being considered. Quinn getting caught suggests that a) he's not a saint, b) he's possibly not too bright (for doing something so blatant to get caught for it) and c) he could potentially be a me-first guy. But the fact that he got caught only really proves that a) he's not a saint. But then again who is?

I know plenty of people I consider to be good people who have done some dumb things. That doesn't mean they're always dumb or that they're not good team players. So in reviewing him along-side other prospects, for me at least, the fact that he did what he did doesn't raise any character flags for me. Maybe he's a dumb, selfish a**hole, but I don't see that as any more likely than the next guy being a dumb, selfish a**hole.
Originally posted by gravelburn:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:
Originally posted by gravelburn:
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
If the team can assure themselves that character is not an issue Quinn would be my choice because he seems to have the killer instinct needed in a pass rusher.

I don't think character is an issue. Seems just like a case of a young guy being tempted by some luxuries he couldn't afford. Sure he shouldn't have taken agent bribes, but beyond being a stupid decision on his part, it is understandable. Certainly doesn't mean he's a bad kid. If anything, I'd think he'd learned his lesson.

To say it isn't a character issue is an attempt to try to cover-up the wrong he did. It's not like he was a 14 year old, he was a 19 or 20 year old man when he made his choices. He knew what he did was wrong, but decided to ignore the rules anyway. He doesn't get a free pass because he is not 30 years old. What he did was wrong and one has to question the kind of character he has that would allow him to choose wrong instead of right.

We have no clue whether Quinn has learned his lesson, since he was suspended for the whole year. Only Quinn knows if he learned his lesson, or if the only thing he is sorry about is that he got caught.

Anything stated about his character is just speculation. You can only judge a person on what they do with their actions, not on what they say with their mouth, since someone can easily lie. Just remember, Quinn had to be CAUGHT, he didn't turn himself in.

So how do you feel about the whole Rothlesberger (sp?) experience?

And was his "character" issue one of a more egregious variety in your opinion or not?

And how is it all turning out now?

And are you OK with it?

I don't like Roethlisberger. The Rooney's were on the verge of releasing him after all his crap, but decided to give him one last chance.

Every person has an opportunity to redeem himself though, and only time and action will tell if that person genuinely desires to be a better person or if they are just "jumping through the hoops" so they can get paid and be in the public eye. So, I'm not condemning Quinn, nor should anyone else, for he may be repentant and it may indeed just be a regrettable mistake on his part.

However, before I invest a #7 pick in him, or anyone, I better have an extremely thorough understanding of this guy and whether it is just a one time thing or a sign of things to come. This is where interviews and being around the guy come into play.

Character is an important consideration for any player being considered. Quinn getting caught suggests that a) he's not a saint, b) he's possibly not too bright (for doing something so blatant to get caught for it) and c) he could potentially be a me-first guy. But the fact that he got caught only really proves that a) he's not a saint. But then again who is?

I know plenty of people I consider to be good people who have done some dumb things. That doesn't mean they're always dumb or that they're not good team players. So in reviewing him along-side other prospects, for me at least, the fact that he did what he did doesn't raise any character flags for me. Maybe he's a dumb, selfish a**hole, but I don't see that as any more likely than the next guy being a dumb, selfish a**hole.

Who is a saint? A saint is a saint and there are a lot of those through out history, even if not common. Everyone should strive to be one.

Well, in spite of speculation, I don't think every prospect is a dumb selfish a**hole, but Quinn may have shown himself to be one. That is a mark against him that another prospect may not have. It becomes magnified a 100 times when you are considering that same prospect for the #7 overall pick. What if he is so dumb that he ends up shooting himself in the leg like Plaxico, or some other equally stupid law-breaking thing?

You have to be more cautious with a guy like Quinn, even if he is a great athlete. It only takes one stupid move to get you put in jail, arrested, or a disturbance with the rest of the team.

I prefer high character guys myself, especially when talking about investing that kind of money in someone. Then again, Quinn might be a high character guy and just made a mistake out of desperation for money. A lot of these players come from economically harsh situations, so that can play a part. That is why teams do a lot of homework on guys. We will see.
Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

To say it isn't a character issue is an attempt to try to cover-up the wrong he did. It's not like he was a 14 year old, he was a 19 or 20 year old man when he made his choices. He knew what he did was wrong, but decided to ignore the rules anyway. He doesn't get a free pass because he is not 30 years old. What he did was wrong and one has to question the kind of character he has that would allow him to choose wrong instead of right.

We have no clue whether Quinn has learned his lesson, since he was suspended for the whole year. Only Quinn knows if he learned his lesson, or if the only thing he is sorry about is that he got caught.

Anything stated about his character is just speculation. You can only judge a person on what they do with their actions, not on what they say with their mouth, since someone can easily lie. Just remember, Quinn had to be CAUGHT, he didn't turn himself in.

Robert Quinn was told at one point he probably wouldn't be able to play sports again..that is if he even made it through surgery for the tumor in his brain. I don't want to stereotype people but anyone who has come so close to death/losing a chance to play this sport for a living will play with a little more fire to him.

I don't believe this is a big deal at all. As someone said this is done all the time and people just don't get caught. Would Reggie Bush have dropped in the draft further if the issues at USC were revealed before he was drafted #2 overall?
At #7 i definitely would not mind Quinn over miller. Stated earlier I'n the thread he would of been a top 3 pick this year if he would of played. Von miller scares me I'n the run game. Quinn I's stout vs the run and can rush the passer as well. I'd think it be easier to gameplan for miller.
Originally posted by mike:
Vonn miller all the way.
I have seen Von Miller play a few times and he is LEGIT. I have only seen a little from Robert Quinn but he displayed some skills and has great size and athleticism for the 3-4 OLB position. I would favor Von Miller because he proved it for an entire career and was a terror in the senior bowl as well. While Robert Quinn is more of a mystery only showing dominance for one year.

I would be happy with either but I would love to get Miller at 7, and I kinda would prefer to pick up Marcell Dareus from bama also. Quinn seems like a boom or bust, I would rather have the surer prospects.
People shouldn't be sleeping on Georgia's Justin Houston. He could light up the combine and have 3-4 teams scrambling to re-shuffle their boards. He'll probably come in at a solid 6'2", 255ish, with explosive 40-time splits and excellent strength for a guy his size.

His experience as a stand-up pass rusher in Georgia's 3-4 defense this past year will help his cause, as will the fact that his college DC was the defensive line coach for the Cowboys under Wade Phillips for 2 years, and was a DC for Romeo Crennel's 3-4 in Cleveland for a few years...so Houston's understanding of this scheme should make him as NFL-ready as anyone (and likely make him a potential target for the Texans or Chiefs).

[ Edited by GhostofFredDean74 on Feb 2, 2011 at 16:58:47 ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
People shouldn't be sleeping on Georgia's Justin Houston. He could light up the combine and have 3-4 teams scrambling to re-shuffle their boards. He'll probably come in at a solid 6'2", 255ish, with explosive 40-time splits and excellent strength for a guy his size.

His experience as a stand-up pass rusher in Georgia's 3-4 defense this past year will help his cause, as will the fact that his college DC was the defensive line coach for the Cowboys under Wade Phillips for 2 years, and was a DC for Romeo Crennel's 3-4 in Cleveland for a few years...so Houston's understanding of this scheme should make him as NFL-ready as anyone (and likely make him a potential target for the Texans or Chiefs).

Good Info. Thanks.

For the record, getting either of these guys would be a huge upgrade for us.

Imagine if we could resign Lawson and Spikes, our LB corp would be

Lawson - Spikes - Willis - Quinn/Miller

Lawson is the worst of the bunch. Its nice when the only knock on his game is an inconsistent pass rusher, when you have pass rushing fiend on the other side, with Justin Smith to provide the pass rush from that side.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
People shouldn't be sleeping on Georgia's Justin Houston. He could light up the combine and have 3-4 teams scrambling to re-shuffle their boards. He'll probably come in at a solid 6'2", 255ish, with explosive 40-time splits and excellent strength for a guy his size.

His experience as a stand-up pass rusher in Georgia's 3-4 defense this past year will help his cause, as will the fact that his college DC was the defensive line coach for the Cowboys under Wade Phillips for 2 years, and was a DC for Romeo Crennel's 3-4 in Cleveland for a few years...so Houston's understanding of this scheme should make him as NFL-ready as anyone (and likely make him a potential target for the Texans or Chiefs).

Why do you have to be like that?
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
People shouldn't be sleeping on Georgia's Justin Houston. He could light up the combine and have 3-4 teams scrambling to re-shuffle their boards. He'll probably come in at a solid 6'2", 255ish, with explosive 40-time splits and excellent strength for a guy his size.

His experience as a stand-up pass rusher in Georgia's 3-4 defense this past year will help his cause, as will the fact that his college DC was the defensive line coach for the Cowboys under Wade Phillips for 2 years, and was a DC for Romeo Crennel's 3-4 in Cleveland for a few years...so Houston's understanding of this scheme should make him as NFL-ready as anyone (and likely make him a potential target for the Texans or Chiefs).

Why do you have to be like that?

Kid is a player, tico...that won't be much of a secret in the coming months.
Production > Potential all else being equal. I have always believed in this.
Originally posted by YouGotGored:
Production > Potential all else being equal. I have always believed in this.

As in similar height-weight-speed-strength ratios? Obviously, the more productive player is more valuable. What are you trying to say?
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by ninertico:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
People shouldn't be sleeping on Georgia's Justin Houston. He could light up the combine and have 3-4 teams scrambling to re-shuffle their boards. He'll probably come in at a solid 6'2", 255ish, with explosive 40-time splits and excellent strength for a guy his size.

His experience as a stand-up pass rusher in Georgia's 3-4 defense this past year will help his cause, as will the fact that his college DC was the defensive line coach for the Cowboys under Wade Phillips for 2 years, and was a DC for Romeo Crennel's 3-4 in Cleveland for a few years...so Houston's understanding of this scheme should make him as NFL-ready as anyone (and likely make him a potential target for the Texans or Chiefs).

Why do you have to be like that?

Kid is a player, tico...that won't be much of a secret in the coming months.

To be honest, either one would fit. As a matter fact, #7 will be Peterson, Dareus, Quinn or Miller. One of them will fall. It truly will be Quinn or Miller, the one AZ didn't want.

After the Combine, Quinn will surpass Miller due to his size speed ratio. I see AZ taking him unless Peterson falls.

We win no matter how I look at it really. Any one of those four would be high, immediate impact players, at DE, OLB or CB. I still believe it's between these two.

I prefer Miller's instincts and speed VS Quinn's. I'd take Quinn's mass over Miller's obviously. Still, I would want Miller's coverage abilities over Quinn's. From a pure pass rushing POV...

It's Miller Time!

FTW!