Lets not reach for a qb in this draft

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Niners23:

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
But what if Harbaugh tells Baalke, "hey, I can work with Jake Locker and eventually turn him into a NFL starting QB?" Or Mallett, or even Cam for that matter? Is that still a "reach?"

Still trying to sell people on Locker huh. I don't think at seven any of them are worth it. Although I hope those in front of us are so that other picks fall to the team.

Perhaps, but the point is, this year we have a guy who is more talented at evaluating the QB position than any of us as arm-chair GMs. If Harbaugh feels Locker, Gabbert, Mallet, Newton Stanzi or whoever is someone he can mold into a start QB, I'm with him all the way. Not only will he have spent hundreds of hours going over all the QBs before the draft, but he will see them in person, interview them and have a better feel for their ability than we will be able to in front of a computer screen looking at youtube highlights and stats on espn.

Bottom line for me at least: I'm not really worried about when they take a QB with Luck out of the picture, so long as Harbaugh feels that that's his guy. Whether we take him in the first round or 7th round is irrelevant to me as long as the coach trusts in him for the future. However, QB is about the only position where I feel this way, uniquely due to Harbaugh.

Post of the day.

Yeah but we gotta watch that it doesn't get taken out of context like so many do here on the webzone. Like Harbaugh said, we learned that if it is on the internet it must be true

Some might take Harbaugh saying (not that he has, but if he did), he likes lockers talent and can make it work, evryone will think that it means Harbaugh will want Baalke to draft him with the 7th overall pick, when actually he may mean that he make him a starter and will take him if he is available in the 2nd or maybe third round. Then again he may say one thing to help Baalke fool people as to who will try to get.

Remember people, this when BS starts to come out. This year is going to be even more unpredictable cause no CBA, so teams will have to draft for need right then and there cause they can't rely on feeling a position when a CBA is signed cause there is no guarentee they will get there man and if they don't they are like the guy stuck with the check.

Originally posted by Niners23:

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
But what if Harbaugh tells Baalke, "hey, I can work with Jake Locker and eventually turn him into a NFL starting QB?" Or Mallett, or even Cam for that matter? Is that still a "reach?"

Still trying to sell people on Locker huh. I don't think at seven any of them are worth it. Although I hope those in front of us are so that other picks fall to the team.

Perhaps, but the point is, this year we have a guy who is more talented at evaluating the QB position than any of us as arm-chair GMs. If Harbaugh feels Locker, Gabbert, Mallet, Newton Stanzi or whoever is someone he can mold into a start QB, I'm with him all the way. Not only will he have spent hundreds of hours going over all the QBs before the draft, but he will see them in person, interview them and have a better feel for their ability than we will be able to in front of a computer screen looking at youtube highlights and stats on espn.

Bottom line for me at least: I'm not really worried about when they take a QB with Luck out of the picture, so long as Harbaugh feels that that's his guy. Whether we take him in the first round or 7th round is irrelevant to me as long as the coach trusts in him for the future. However, QB is about the only position where I feel this way, uniquely due to Harbaugh.

Thank you.

Originally posted by fanmusclecars:

Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
unless we trade down i think drafting any qb at pick number 7 is a reach regardless of assessments or not

Agreed.

I would be fine with someone like Christian Ponder in the second round.

If the coach likes the guy and thinks he can turn into a franchise QB, how is that a reach? And even if is, who cares? Pre-draft value really means nothing compared to the on-field performance.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fanmusclecars:

Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
unless we trade down i think drafting any qb at pick number 7 is a reach regardless of assessments or not

Agreed.

I would be fine with someone like Christian Ponder in the second round.

If the coach likes the guy and thinks he can turn into a franchise QB, how is that a reach? And even if is, who cares? Pre-draft value really means nothing compared to the on-field performance.

But that is the problem... there are no guarentees...even with Harbaugh. If Walsh was so sure, why didn't he take Montana with an earlier pick? QBs are like a box of chocolates you never what you get........

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fanmusclecars:

Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
unless we trade down i think drafting any qb at pick number 7 is a reach regardless of assessments or not

Agreed.

I would be fine with someone like Christian Ponder in the second round.

If the coach likes the guy and thinks he can turn into a franchise QB, how is that a reach? And even if is, who cares? Pre-draft value really means nothing compared to the on-field performance.

But that is the problem... there are no guarentees...even with Harbaugh. If Walsh was so sure, why didn't he take Montana with an earlier pick? QBs are like a box of chocolates you never what you get........

So if there are no guarantees, you go with the guy you FEEL is the best selection. Montana wasn't highly thought of back then because he didn't fit the proto-typical QB of the day (big, strong-armed pocket passer). Bill wasn't looking for the proto-typical QB in the first place, so he KNEW he could wait a few rounds to get the guy he wanted.

Who knows, Jim might see the same thing in another "Joe" in the later rounds. I'm just saying, if he sees that in someone like Gabbert, Locker, Newton or Mallett (guys who will likely not make it out of the 1st round mostly because of team need), I'd trust him to make that pick and not consider it a reach.

Now, it might be smarter to trade back if you think the guy you like will be there later. That I get. But if you like a guy and you think others do too, you should take him. End of story.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fanmusclecars:

Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
unless we trade down i think drafting any qb at pick number 7 is a reach regardless of assessments or not

Agreed.

I would be fine with someone like Christian Ponder in the second round.

If the coach likes the guy and thinks he can turn into a franchise QB, how is that a reach? And even if is, who cares? Pre-draft value really means nothing compared to the on-field performance.

But that is the problem... there are no guarentees...even with Harbaugh. If Walsh was so sure, why didn't he take Montana with an earlier pick? QBs are like a box of chocolates you never what you get........

So if there are no guarantees, you go with the guy you FEEL is the best selection. Montana wasn't highly thought of back then because he didn't fit the proto-typical QB of the day (big, strong-armed pocket passer). Bill wasn't looking for the proto-typical QB in the first place, so he KNEW he could wait a few rounds to get the guy he wanted.

Who knows, Jim might see the same thing in another "Joe" in the later rounds. I'm just saying, if he sees that in someone like Gabbert, Locker, Newton or Mallett (guys who will likely not make it out of the 1st round mostly because of team need), I'd trust him to make that pick and not consider it a reach.

Now, it might be smarter to trade back if you think the guy you like will be there later. That I get. But if you like a guy and you think others do too, you should take him. End of story.

Exactly, trade back, but are they worth the 7th-no. If Harbaugh feels say a Stanzi has what it takes to mode into a starting QB like Joe then do it that way, but to be blind to drafting a QB even if you got the touch-even King Midas will happen upon fools gold is my point. For every elway and manning, there are also montanas and bradys to be had, there are also ryan leafs and alex smiths to be had. If you can get a person and develop him like Rodgers of the packers why do a alex smith, fall back and get him. Sometimes even coaches can fall in love with someone too much that it clouds there vision.

One guy that interests me is Andy Dalton of TCU. Not sure where he grades out, I am making a wild guess at 3rd/4th round. I have not seen much of him, but he has intangibles like leadership and making plays with his feet. The only question I have is about him is he has the accuracy and decision making skills needed.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fanmusclecars:

Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
unless we trade down i think drafting any qb at pick number 7 is a reach regardless of assessments or not

Agreed.

I would be fine with someone like Christian Ponder in the second round.

If the coach likes the guy and thinks he can turn into a franchise QB, how is that a reach? And even if is, who cares? Pre-draft value really means nothing compared to the on-field performance.

Deciding if a player is a reach or not is entirely based on the draft board. If Balke decides Locker, Newton, Mallet, Ponder, etc are top 10-15 picks then you can bet one will be available at #7. You must always believe in your draft board. The "who cares" attitude is what tanks franchises.

Originally posted by fanmusclecars:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fanmusclecars:

Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
unless we trade down i think drafting any qb at pick number 7 is a reach regardless of assessments or not

Agreed.

I would be fine with someone like Christian Ponder in the second round.

If the coach likes the guy and thinks he can turn into a franchise QB, how is that a reach? And even if is, who cares? Pre-draft value really means nothing compared to the on-field performance.

Deciding if a player is a reach or not is entirely based on the draft board. If Balke decides Locker, Newton, Mallet, Ponder, etc are top 10-15 picks then you can bet one will be available at #7. You must always believe in your draft board. The "who cares" attitude is what tanks franchises.

I think we're saying the same thing, just differently. Draft boards differ from team-to-team; for example, one team might have Cam Newton as a top 10 pick, and others might not have him on their board at all in the 1st. That latter team will see Cam as a reach at say, pick 20, while the former will see that as a steal. You can't worry about what other teams (or people) think; you have to trust your own evaluation of the prospects.

So we're saying the same thing.

I really hope a top end pass rusher is picked and a QB somewhere in the middle with a FA QB signed this off-season. just my two cents

Originally posted by sfout:

Originally posted by matt49er:

Originally posted by BigBug415:

Originally posted by LionHeartofGold:
Agreed. I get so annoyed when fans mention the niners should or will pick a QB in the first round. All of the QBs suggested to be our 1st pick are reaches. Historically, this organization has gone with the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE, which clearly belongs to either a CB like Amukamara or a DE. If Peterson falls to us, it will be God sent, but I doubt it will happen. You guys gotta get off the nuts of Mallet, Locker, Newton, and Gabbert? C'mon now...Gabbert??? We're talkn bout Gabbert? I mean...Gabbert?? The team needs a veteran QB. We must win now while the competition in the NFC West is still pathetic. Any QB we take in the draft will be either in the 2nd or third, most likely third since we will probably use our 2nd on a trade. GABBERT??!!!!

Exactly.

co-signed

Co-Co signed

So many more promising QBs in the day or even day 3 range it's rediculous.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by rk1642:
First off, I know we need a qb with Alex leaving in FA but this years class of qb's is a huge question mark in my opinion. Nobody is a clear cut #1 guy and we can't afford to waste another 1st round pick on a qb.

We need to pick up a couple of FA guys that Jim can coach up and play within the WCO system.

This draft has some very good db's and DE/OLB that we can get in the 1st and 2nd rounds. These are huge needs for us and can help push our D into the top 5-10 in the NFL which can keep us in all of our games.

Let Jim pick a guy in the 3rd and let him sit and learn for a year and coach him up. I don't want a project guy drafted in the 1st and then thrown out there before he's ready.

Better yet, wait till next year when supposedly there are more solid qb's coming out. Spend 2 1st rounders on a targeted guy if need be. By then our team will be pretty set with talent that knows the systems and can help out a rookie qb.

It's a QB driven league. You can scheme on defense. Look at last year's winner the Saints. They would not have won it all without Brees. The defense was nothing special but they had a great defensive coordinator in Gregg Williams who had an aggressive blitz heavy scheme that worked well with their so-so personnel. It's time we take the QB position seriously. There are 7 rounds in the draft, it's not like the defense will be neglected totally if we take a first round QB.

Yea but you forget to mention that Drew Brees was a QB castoff and is only 6-0/6-1 and is not your prototypical passer. He was a late bloomer and if you watch Saints game film you will see that they teach the guards and center to pull to the opposite side of the #1 read so Brees can get a clear passing lane. The saints thrive on timing routes and screens and just have WRs capable of making deep plays.

EDIT: How is the Saints defense not special? Jonathon Vilma is equal to Patrick Willis and Darren Sharper played like his old self year and the DL played out of their minds last year.

If you want to be PC and say a particular player influenced the Saints run last year it was either Sharper or Bush. Bush is in no way a true RB or WR and without his YAC from the screens that Brees throws so often or Sharper's pass coverage the saints wouldn't have been in the playoffs. Case and point: This season, Bush misses 8 weeks and Sharper's play falls off the map and the squeak into the playoffs only to get beat by Seattle.

You were doing well until you said Vilma is equal to Willis. Stopped reading after that.

Originally posted by WildBill:

But that is the problem... there are no guarentees...even with Harbaugh. If Walsh was so sure, why didn't he take Montana with an earlier pick? QBs are like a box of chocolates you never what you get........

Exactly. All of the guys (gals?) here who are starting their posts with, "With Luck out of the draft ..." would have been starting IDENTICAL posts last year, but for the name Locker substituted for the name Luck, or starting the IDENTICAL post in 1999 with the name Couch substituted for the name Luck. Montana and Brady were not sure things, while Couch and Harrington and Leinert were. Let's draft Gary Glick! (Look up Gary Glick on Wikipedia.)

If the criterion is that (somebody) is a lock to be a competent NFL quarterback, the gold mine is located in the group of current NFL backup quarterbacks who, simply by making the roster, have shown more relevant talent than any college quarterback has been in a position to show.

Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
I don't see how next years QB's are any better than this year other than Luck. And he too can fall. He can get injured. He doesn't have Harbaugh anymore. There might be slight changes in the system. Some personnel will be different. It will be hard even for Luck to duplicate that year for a variety of reasons. Look at Jake Locker. He was all world Super Man last year. #1 pick for sure. He fell. It can happen to Luck too.

I see no definitive reason 2012 is a better QB year than now. We have a huge QB need. We can't keep waiting forever. We can do this year after year. And keep saying next year. But at some point we need one and we need to coach him up. I think Harbaugh can do that. As long as the player is Harbaugh approved and he coaches the guy up I will be fine with it.

There seems to be quite a few teams needy in the QB department right now. 2010 was the year a lot of veterans fell off and not many young guys stepped forward. I think a lot of QBs will get drafted earlier than they should. Cam Newton will be a good example, the guy will be a project, in a normal year he would probably go in the 3rd or later. Watch someone grab him much earlier. Guy is a great athlete, but pulls it down and runs too quick, guy could end up being a bust.

I keep saying this, and it keeps getting ignored, but I'm going to say it again.

Every QB in this draft is going to get drafted higher than they should.

It's annoying, but that's reality. There probably won't be a CBA before the draft, and so the only option teams will have for upgrading their QB position is through the draft. That means that every team that has QB needs is going to be reaching for QBs.

So forget about your draft grades. Any QB that 'could' go in the first round will. All those 'mid round' QBs will go in the second round.

If you're saying we should buck the trend and just not worry about drafting a QB in the first few rounds then fine. But all we will be left with at that point are guys that are late round talent, and probably for a reason.

And every year for last few years everyone on this board has said, 'next year's QB class is way better.' Well maybe it's true this year, but you can't keep waiting for the ideal situation to fix the most important position on the team.

We need to come away from this draft with a real QB prospect. And ALL of those guys are going to be drafted in the first two rounds this year.

Ive been saying this for a month now....QB is the most important position in football, teams will over draft for this.

And everyone wants to draft other positions while ignoring this....please....we NEED a FRANCHISE QB. So they say there are none here....this is a deep and talented draft. So they say that the first QB they have is ranked 36 overall, uh ok? We will take a QB in this draft...and then sign one in FA. I seriously doubt the CBA will be here in time before in draft.

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by fanmusclecars:

Originally posted by TalkinBoutWILLIS:
unless we trade down i think drafting any qb at pick number 7 is a reach regardless of assessments or not

Agreed.

I would be fine with someone like Christian Ponder in the second round.

If the coach likes the guy and thinks he can turn into a franchise QB, how is that a reach? And even if is, who cares? Pre-draft value really means nothing compared to the on-field performance.

But that is the problem... there are no guarentees...even with Harbaugh. If Walsh was so sure, why didn't he take Montana with an earlier pick? QBs are like a box of chocolates you never what you get........

So if there are no guarantees, you go with the guy you FEEL is the best selection. Montana wasn't highly thought of back then because he didn't fit the proto-typical QB of the day (big, strong-armed pocket passer). Bill wasn't looking for the proto-typical QB in the first place, so he KNEW he could wait a few rounds to get the guy he wanted.

Who knows, Jim might see the same thing in another "Joe" in the later rounds. I'm just saying, if he sees that in someone like Gabbert, Locker, Newton or Mallett (guys who will likely not make it out of the 1st round mostly because of team need), I'd trust him to make that pick and not consider it a reach.

Now, it might be smarter to trade back if you think the guy you like will be there later. That I get. But if you like a guy and you think others do too, you should take him. End of story.

Exactly, trade back, but are they worth the 7th-no. If Harbaugh feels say a Stanzi has what it takes to mode into a starting QB like Joe then do it that way, but to be blind to drafting a QB even if you got the touch-even King Midas will happen upon fools gold is my point. For every elway and manning, there are also montanas and bradys to be had, there are also ryan leafs and alex smiths to be had. If you can get a person and develop him like Rodgers of the packers why do a alex smith, fall back and get him. Sometimes even coaches can fall in love with someone too much that it clouds there vision.

You do realize that there are about 5 other teams drafting right behind us in need of a QB dont you? If we trade back we loose our target...whoever that may be. So yes we reach for a QB at 7....damm what the rankings have them at.

In Harbaugh I Trust.