Mallett or Newton

Originally posted by strickac:
Mallett, easily.

Newton just strikes me as lazy, combined with poor mechanics. Sure, he's athletic, but I'll take the pocket passer with good fundamentals and a strong arm. Mallett is the much safer pick, IMO.

Guys like Newton usually don't pan out and with his checkered past, I wouldn't bet on him to have the dedication that he'll need to develop his game. He's a risky pick.

checkered past wow he bought a stolen lap top and owns up to him making a mistake and he cheated on a test.. big deal

And how you get that he is lazy is beyond me, cant see how you watch his games (especially the Alabama one) and his press conferences and go ya this dude is lazy

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by skd420:
Im sorry but Locker is complete trash. The worst footwork and mechanics i have ever seen from a QB. Ever.

Cam is who i would take in a heartbeat, over Luck even.
He makes it look EASY. In the SEC. Luck has a tremendous running game and is good on playaction but what if he has to win it by himself? I dont think that he can do that. Im sure as sh!t Cam Newton can. What about his game would be different at the pro level?
He is better at everything Josh Freeman does and he went 17th.

Can Newton should be the #1 pick. But due to whatever kind of stereotypes and past failures by other black QBs he wont be, but i can guaruntee you that he will be the best QB in this years draft.

And i like Mallet and Luck and Moore a lot. But with the below average talent we have at every position, it SCREAMS Cam Newton.

Have you actually watched Locker play? Locker's footwork and mechanics are very good. His only issue is his accuracy. The fact that he was injured all year could a big reason as to why he was missing open targets this year. Also, his receivers dropped a lot of passes this year.

Those sound like Lockerscuses to me. If he's really worthy of a high first round pick he would've risen above and carried his team.

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by skd420:
Im sorry but Locker is complete trash. The worst footwork and mechanics i have ever seen from a QB. Ever.

Cam is who i would take in a heartbeat, over Luck even.
He makes it look EASY. In the SEC. Luck has a tremendous running game and is good on playaction but what if he has to win it by himself? I dont think that he can do that. Im sure as sh!t Cam Newton can. What about his game would be different at the pro level?
He is better at everything Josh Freeman does and he went 17th.

Can Newton should be the #1 pick. But due to whatever kind of stereotypes and past failures by other black QBs he wont be, but i can guaruntee you that he will be the best QB in this years draft.

And i like Mallet and Luck and Moore a lot. But with the below average talent we have at every position, it SCREAMS Cam Newton.

Have you actually watched Locker play? Locker's footwork and mechanics are very good. His only issue is his accuracy. The fact that he was injured all year could a big reason as to why he was missing open targets this year. Also, his receivers dropped a lot of passes this year.

Those sound like Lockerscuses to me. If he's really worthy of a high first round pick he would've risen above and carried his team.

I never said he was worth a high draft pick. But depending on how he performs in the all star games and combine, we'll have to look long and hard on whether or not we should select him. I was responding to the OP's criticism of Locker's footwork and mechanics, calling it garbage when it isn't, then having him praise Newton's.

Btw, I'm not making excuses. It's fact. Plus, if you've read other threads on Locker, most of us have already said that he's played his stock down to the 2nd round.

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Those sound like Lockerscuses to me. If he's really worthy of a high first round pick he would've risen above and carried his team.

right, a QB has to carry a team with a rib injury...right. especially the huskies, who are such a good football team.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by strickac:

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by skd420:
Im sorry but Locker is complete trash. The worst footwork and mechanics i have ever seen from a QB. Ever.

Cam is who i would take in a heartbeat, over Luck even.
He makes it look EASY. In the SEC. Luck has a tremendous running game and is good on playaction but what if he has to win it by himself? I dont think that he can do that. Im sure as sh!t Cam Newton can. What about his game would be different at the pro level?
He is better at everything Josh Freeman does and he went 17th.

Can Newton should be the #1 pick. But due to whatever kind of stereotypes and past failures by other black QBs he wont be, but i can guaruntee you that he will be the best QB in this years draft.

And i like Mallet and Luck and Moore a lot. But with the below average talent we have at every position, it SCREAMS Cam Newton.

Have you actually watched Locker play? Locker's footwork and mechanics are very good. His only issue is his accuracy. The fact that he was injured all year could a big reason as to why he was missing open targets this year. Also, his receivers dropped a lot of passes this year.

And you must be crazy if you would take Cam over Luck . If you were gonna bash Locker for his footwork and mechanics, what would you say about Cam's? I like Newton and his performance on the field helped me believe that he's a damn good college QB, but he has very lazy footwork and his mechanics need to be worked on. You say the NFL has never seen a QB like this? How about Vince Young, Tim Tebow, Warren Moon? To me, Newton's play is very similar to theirs.

Yeah, the footwork and mechanics argument doesn't bode well when you support Cam. Newton's footwork and mechanics are by far the worst of any QB coming out. Now, that's not to say his game can't translate or he won't be able to learn, but it'll be a struggle because when he drops back, he just kind of slowly walks back how every he feels. If he chooses to workout for scouts, which he probably won't, he'll be highly criticited..

Personally, I think scouts/fans generally overthink the mechanics aspect. During the scouting process, arm strength, accuracy, poise and decision making tend to start getting pushed aside, even though those are the keys attributes to an effective NFL QB.

I'd take Locker over Cam, but both scare me. They're both wildcards. I have a bad feeling that Cam is going to just rely on his athleticism and he'll fizzle out in the pros. I think Locker will be alright.

I agree completely. Someone on this thread said that none of the QBs except for Luck really jumps out as the #2 QB in the draft.

I know. Everyone seems to have holes in their game.

As for Locker and Cam, personally, I'd rather wait until the 2nd-3rd and draft Colin Kaepernick (Nevada). He's 6-6 225lbs, with a very strong arm and good accuracy. Plus, he's quick and pretty athletic. If I was going for a dual-threat QB, I'd go with Kaepernick. I expect that he'll start moving up the draft boards pretty soon. I've seen him projected around the 3rd-4th, but I can see that changing. He'll might move into the 2nd by the time the draft rolls around.

If we miss out on the 1st round QB selections, I'd take my chance on Stanzi. Good size for a QB, accurate, high IQ, and IMO pro ready in terms of footwork.

He's going to be better than all these guys except for maybe Luck or Mallett IMO. Probably better than Mallett. He already plays in a pro offense and goes through reads, good footwork, good throwing motion, he can get the ball downfield, and he's accurate.

"Pro ready" isn't really as much of an advantage in the NFL as you make it out to be, and doesn't really mean all that much in terms of how good a QB can eventually be in the NFL. Any QB who comes into the league is going to have to be broken down and built back up.

Raw players with high ceiling can be developed as long as you have good coaching and the player is dedicated to learning.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
I rather have a pocket QB then a wild cat type of QB sooner or later does guys wear down

they can have their 3 or 4 years of flash but sooner or later they hit the wall

Mallett would fit perfect for the West coast offense

i want the niners to get back to basics

going wild cat would just complicate things for us

as it is we are a mess

Holy s**t I can't believe I agree with you for once! I actually feel like Mallett is better suited for a downfield passing attack than the WCO, same with Newton. I think a guy who fits the WCO well is either Stanzi or Ponder, or even Locker(but I'm not that big of a fan of his).

Why don't we pick a quarterback we feel has the best skills and fit the offensive system around his strengths? Why do we have to go back to the traditional West Coast offense? Is it somehow going to miraculously bring back the glory days?

The Eagles, a WCO team are having plenty of success with Michael Vick at the helm, hardly who I would consider to be your prototypical WCO quarterback. Draft for skills, not for scheme.

Attempting to exactly replicate the WCO system we ran back in the 80's and 90's is going to work out exactly the same as Singletary's attempting to replicate the Chicago Bear's offense of the 80's.

The Eagles have done a good job playing to Vick's strength but a lot of what they do is the drop back passing game in the WCO and he has just become a better QB. Andy Reid pretty much turned him into a WCO QB. Not to mention I believe they also ran a WCO under Mora, but I could be wrong on that.

So if Vick can do it why can't Cam Newton do it?

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Those sound like Lockerscuses to me. If he's really worthy of a high first round pick he would've risen above and carried his team.

right, a QB has to carry a team with a rib injury...right. especially the huskies, who are such a good football team.

What about last year when a healthy Locker was:

~ranked 55th in the nation in total passer rating
~68th in completion %
~59th in yards per attempt
~Tied for 63rd with total number of interceptions thrown (11)

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
I rather have a pocket QB then a wild cat type of QB sooner or later does guys wear down

they can have their 3 or 4 years of flash but sooner or later they hit the wall

Mallett would fit perfect for the West coast offense

i want the niners to get back to basics

going wild cat would just complicate things for us

as it is we are a mess

Holy s**t I can't believe I agree with you for once! I actually feel like Mallett is better suited for a downfield passing attack than the WCO, same with Newton. I think a guy who fits the WCO well is either Stanzi or Ponder, or even Locker(but I'm not that big of a fan of his).

Why don't we pick a quarterback we feel has the best skills and fit the offensive system around his strengths? Why do we have to go back to the traditional West Coast offense? Is it somehow going to miraculously bring back the glory days?

The Eagles, a WCO team are having plenty of success with Michael Vick at the helm, hardly who I would consider to be your prototypical WCO quarterback. Draft for skills, not for scheme.

Attempting to exactly replicate the WCO system we ran back in the 80's and 90's is going to work out exactly the same as Singletary's attempting to replicate the Chicago Bear's offense of the 80's.

The Eagles have done a good job playing to Vick's strength but a lot of what they do is the drop back passing game in the WCO and he has just become a better QB. Andy Reid pretty much turned him into a WCO QB. Not to mention I believe they also ran a WCO under Mora, but I could be wrong on that.

So if Vick can do it why can't Cam Newton do it?

It took Vick till he was like 30 years old bro, don't want to wait that long. Cam has too much stuff to learn, we need a guy now that's ready to play. His footwork isn't there, and he'll have trouble reading NFL defenses. Decent thrower though.

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
I rather have a pocket QB then a wild cat type of QB sooner or later does guys wear down

they can have their 3 or 4 years of flash but sooner or later they hit the wall

Mallett would fit perfect for the West coast offense

i want the niners to get back to basics

going wild cat would just complicate things for us

as it is we are a mess

Holy s**t I can't believe I agree with you for once! I actually feel like Mallett is better suited for a downfield passing attack than the WCO, same with Newton. I think a guy who fits the WCO well is either Stanzi or Ponder, or even Locker(but I'm not that big of a fan of his).

Why don't we pick a quarterback we feel has the best skills and fit the offensive system around his strengths? Why do we have to go back to the traditional West Coast offense? Is it somehow going to miraculously bring back the glory days?

The Eagles, a WCO team are having plenty of success with Michael Vick at the helm, hardly who I would consider to be your prototypical WCO quarterback. Draft for skills, not for scheme.

Attempting to exactly replicate the WCO system we ran back in the 80's and 90's is going to work out exactly the same as Singletary's attempting to replicate the Chicago Bear's offense of the 80's.

The Eagles have done a good job playing to Vick's strength but a lot of what they do is the drop back passing game in the WCO and he has just become a better QB. Andy Reid pretty much turned him into a WCO QB. Not to mention I believe they also ran a WCO under Mora, but I could be wrong on that.

So if Vick can do it why can't Cam Newton do it?

It took Vick till he was like 30 years old bro, don't want to wait that long. Cam has too much stuff to learn, we need a guy now that's ready to play. His footwork isn't there, and he'll have trouble reading NFL defenses. Decent thrower though.

So since Vick was immature and missed 2 years in prison that means Cam Newton is destined to follow that same time frame of development?

I'm not usually one to play the race card, but given all the comments I've heard about him being "a wild cat QB" or "lazy" and now bringing up how Vick didn't start playing this well until he was 30, I have to think that if Cam Newton was white these things would never have been mentioned. I don't hear anyone bringing this stuff up about Locker.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:


What about last year when a healthy Locker was:

~ranked 55th in the nation in total passer rating i dont care about that rating...a lot of s**tty QBs have very good ratings but they stay s**tty.
~68th in completion % absolute number is sth i care even less about...
~59th in yards per attempt same here
~Tied for 63rd with total number of interceptions thrown (11) 11 INTs to 21 TDs is ok.

i'm tired of see some stats as an argument...stats tell you only the half of truth, at max...

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by AllTimeGreat:

Originally posted by WillistheWall:

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
I rather have a pocket QB then a wild cat type of QB sooner or later does guys wear down

they can have their 3 or 4 years of flash but sooner or later they hit the wall

Mallett would fit perfect for the West coast offense

i want the niners to get back to basics

going wild cat would just complicate things for us

as it is we are a mess

Holy s**t I can't believe I agree with you for once! I actually feel like Mallett is better suited for a downfield passing attack than the WCO, same with Newton. I think a guy who fits the WCO well is either Stanzi or Ponder, or even Locker(but I'm not that big of a fan of his).

Why don't we pick a quarterback we feel has the best skills and fit the offensive system around his strengths? Why do we have to go back to the traditional West Coast offense? Is it somehow going to miraculously bring back the glory days?

The Eagles, a WCO team are having plenty of success with Michael Vick at the helm, hardly who I would consider to be your prototypical WCO quarterback. Draft for skills, not for scheme.

Attempting to exactly replicate the WCO system we ran back in the 80's and 90's is going to work out exactly the same as Singletary's attempting to replicate the Chicago Bear's offense of the 80's.

The Eagles have done a good job playing to Vick's strength but a lot of what they do is the drop back passing game in the WCO and he has just become a better QB. Andy Reid pretty much turned him into a WCO QB. Not to mention I believe they also ran a WCO under Mora, but I could be wrong on that.

So if Vick can do it why can't Cam Newton do it?

It took Vick till he was like 30 years old bro, don't want to wait that long. Cam has too much stuff to learn, we need a guy now that's ready to play. His footwork isn't there, and he'll have trouble reading NFL defenses. Decent thrower though.

So since Vick was immature and missed 2 years in prison that means Cam Newton is destined to follow that same time frame of development?

I'm not usually one to play the race card, but given all the comments I've heard about him being "a wild cat QB" or "lazy" and now bringing up how Vick didn't start playing this well until he was 30, I have to think that if Cam Newton was white these things would never have been mentioned. I don't hear anyone bringing this stuff up about Locker.

There was a white QB that reminds me of Newton in style of play and that's Tim Tebow. Tebow still gets hated on. I think people just wants to hate on players that are getting lots of love.

Newton's 2010 passing stats:
G Att Comp Pct. Yards Yards/Att TD Int Rating Att/G Yards/G
13 246 165 67.1 2589 10.5 28 6 188.15 18.9 199.2

Tebow's 2009 passing stats:
G Att Comp Pct. Yards Yards/Att TD Int Rating Att/G Yards/G
14 314 213 67.8 2895 9.2 21 5 164.17 22.4 206.8

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:


What about last year when a healthy Locker was:

~ranked 55th in the nation in total passer rating i dont care about that rating...a lot of s**tty QBs have very good ratings but they stay s**tty.
~68th in completion % absolute number is sth i care even less about...
~59th in yards per attempt same here
~Tied for 63rd with total number of interceptions thrown (11) 11 INTs to 21 TDs is ok.

i'm tired of see some stats as an argument...stats tell you only the half of truth, at max...

Yah, those pesky stats/facts.

Ok, so please explain the positive side of those stats, since you say they are only "half the truth."

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:


What about last year when a healthy Locker was:

~ranked 55th in the nation in total passer rating i dont care about that rating...a lot of s**tty QBs have very good ratings but they stay s**tty.
~68th in completion % absolute number is sth i care even less about...
~59th in yards per attempt same here
~Tied for 63rd with total number of interceptions thrown (11) 11 INTs to 21 TDs is ok.

i'm tired of see some stats as an argument...stats tell you only the half of truth, at max...

Yah, those pesky stats/facts.

Ok, so please explain the positive side of those stats, since you say they are only "half the truth."

I've tried for two months with communist, but he's a Locker-maniac.

Originally posted by SF69ers:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:


What about last year when a healthy Locker was:

~ranked 55th in the nation in total passer rating i dont care about that rating...a lot of s**tty QBs have very good ratings but they stay s**tty.
~68th in completion % absolute number is sth i care even less about...
~59th in yards per attempt same here
~Tied for 63rd with total number of interceptions thrown (11) 11 INTs to 21 TDs is ok.

i'm tired of see some stats as an argument...stats tell you only the half of truth, at max...

Yah, those pesky stats/facts.

Ok, so please explain the positive side of those stats, since you say they are only "half the truth."

I've tried for two months with communist, but he's a Locker-maniac.

What he's essentially saying is, "in just about every measure of a QB (wins, losses, stats), Locker isn't very good...except to the naked eye and my personal opinion and that's all that matters."

Quote:
So if Vick can do it why can't Cam Newton do it?

Quote:
It took Vick till he was like 30 years old bro, don't want to wait that long. Cam has too much stuff to learn, we need a guy now that's ready to play. His footwork isn't there, and he'll have trouble reading NFL defenses. Decent thrower though.

Quote:
So since Vick was immature and missed 2 years in prison that means Cam Newton is destined to follow that same time frame of development?

I'm not usually one to play the race card, but given all the comments I've heard about him being "a wild cat QB" or "lazy" and now bringing up how Vick didn't start playing this well until he was 30, I have to think that if Cam Newton was white these things would never have been mentioned. I don't hear anyone bringing this stuff up about Locker.

There was a white QB that reminds me of Newton in style of play and that's Tim Tebow. Tebow still gets hated on. I think people just wants to hate on players that are getting lots of love.

Newton's 2010 passing stats:
G Att Comp Pct. Yards Yards/Att TD Int Rating Att/G Yards/G
13 246 165 67.1 2589 10.5 28 6 188.15 18.9 199.2

Tebow's 2009 passing stats:
G Att Comp Pct. Yards Yards/Att TD Int Rating Att/G Yards/G
14 314 213 67.8 2895 9.2 21 5 164.17 22.4 206.8

Only difference is newton is a way better athlete with a way stronger arm and much faster. Plus Tebow played on a stacked team and never had to deal with the negative pressure of the pay for play allegations. Tebow was a first round pick because of his ability to lead and win... newton has that and the ability to be an elite QB.