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******* 49ers Draft Grade so far (Vote) *******

******* 49ers Draft Grade so far (Vote) *******

  • Walsh
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 294
Originally posted by KID9R:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
I gave it an F, too many reaches, not enough immediate help for a team that THINKS it can make the play offs. This is a coach killing draft. We filled needs at O-line that we could have filled through free agency with guys who MIGHT be ready. We appear to have loaded up with talent to run the most boring Singletary run run punt offense ever, great more predictable play calling coming soon! Bad draft bad direction bad coaching bad ownership, the only thing this team has going for it is us die hard fans!

We filled the needs Mel Kiper and all the media whores said we should! That spells trouble.

We still lack speed on both sides of the ball at way too many positions!
We still lack a RB that spreads the defense
We still lack a speed Wide out Ted Ginn really is a kick returner, thats all.
We are still one D-linemen short of having 3 starter for our 3-4
We still lack a pure pass rush OLB
We still lack a speed CB
But we have to frickin awesome prospects at O-line!

Hope I am way wrong, even if I am not I will still root for my beloved Niners!

Ya its just to bad there isn't 15 rounds in the draft

Agreed.

I think his first 2 points translate into "Why couldn't we get CJ Spiller??"
As for pure pass rusher. Bowman was ranked a first round talent by espn analysts last year. They can't all be Brandon Graham.
We've spent a lot more picks on D-line than O-line. You probably haven't checked out Balmers highlight reel. Check it out!

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=140998&highlight=balmer
  • coolyg23
  • Info N/A
I give it an A because of the beefing of the offensive line plus the big upside in Bowman and Davis. Mays will be the stud and yes be ready to unleash his force on Seattle. Then we acquired Blount who could end up as a stud. Coach Singletary will set the conduct standard from day 1. Robinson will be gone. The Niners will carry 4 RBs on the roster. Defense and the rushing will be the main focus of the game. The passing game won't be shabby either. Alex Smith will be in the same offensive scheme for the first time in his career this year. Ginn will bolster the return game setting the offense up in great field position. The 49ers will not only win the West but be a force in the NFC as a whole. Very excited about this year! Can't wait for the first game. We got our hands full the second week of the season against the defending Super Bowl Champions but I think we will give them a good game. Go Niners!!!!!
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by communist:
still no speed at the offense, neither at WR (kyle williams is too small actually and ted ginn isnt a reliable WR) nor at RB. at least we improved our o-line and we got a blocking TE...no covering SS, no real good CB and i dont know if the niners can pass-rush consistently against the better teams. thus once again we could get big problems at defending the pass...very lethal in a pass-happy league.

No grade?

Still you put your finger on the problem with this draft.

No SPEED.

A very amatuerishly run draft. A panic at the outset which cost the team a fourth rounder that was sorely needed later on. No legitimate cb. No safety to cover the third receiver, as you point out.

An immature fascination with the workout numbers for Mays . . . but he hasn't shown any skills as a player. The only redemption that I see for him is if he is used as a hybrid linebacker to put pressure on the passer . . . but that's a big reach because we don't know if he can do that. Lord knows, we need an enhanced pass rush. Opponents will light us up with their passing game. With a desperate need for speed in the defensive backfield, the team drafts a MLB, a RB who seems to fits Coffee's description, and a slow blocking TE!!??

I agree with the first round pick at OT. But not the guard with our second pick. That should have come later, with all the other critical needs requiring resolution. BTW I don't believe that either of the first rounders are shoe-in pro bowlers . . . they're going to need serious coaching (do we have that . . . really?). Davis has the physique, but he has the reputation for being a slacker. If he is predisposed to being that way, he will never be great . . . motivator or no motivator. Still, now that it's done, let's hope that it all works out and the team does not have to visit the OL issue for a LONG time. That possibiltity is certainly a positive.

Very dissapointed with the picks taken after the first round.

The draft could have been managed better. Getting more picks and filling more needs. Like I said . . . Amatuerish.

Grade: a solid C.

PS: Ooops! I forgot to factor in the Ginn trade for the 5th pick.

Revised grade: A solid C+
I agree they have needed speed. However, they GOT speed in two critical areas.

One, the 5th round pick, Ginn, is a burner and an established return guy. He will bring the speed the passing game has lacked.

Two, you don't seem to like Mays but I think you are being too critical and ignoring the fact his role at USC seemed to change this past year. (more on that later) Even if Mays is "only" 4.45, he will be as fast, or faster than any of the RBs he will face.

The greatest speed need the defense had was not in the secondary but in not having enough guys to get to the edge on running plays. If Willis was blocked or slowed down, no one else could get there. Mays will be a second guy with speed to get to the edge. It will be hard to block them both.

My initial reluctance to embrace the Mays pick was my own pre-disposition of wanting a "cover" safety. However, as I looked it over, I think he was the right pick. Goldson, though he sometimes showed his inexperience, did show ballhawking ability. Also, his play recognition and general field generalship was fine. With Mays now in the lineup to seal the edges and cover TEs, Goldson can now focus on being the cover safety on slot receivers, which is what was lacking last year. What that amounts to is that the 49ers HAD the cover safety, now they have a bigger, much faster, and younger SS to both seal the edge and cover the TE, something Lewis just cannot do.

The final "speed" issue is more subtle: Frank Gore is faster than many seem to realize. When the line gives him a hole, he doesn't get caught from behind very often. What we all want to see is the 49ers running to the outside more often to spread out the defense. The problem this last year was that they did not have LINEMEN quick and agile enough to get outside to lead Gore. While I was somewhat disappointed to see Sheets put on the PS and then leave, it would have done no good to have an outside runner on a team with no linemen to get out to block for him.

The picks of Davis and Iupati will change that. Both of them are MUCH quicker and agile than either Snyder or Baas. By having faster linemen that can get outside to lead, it will make the entire running game look speedier.

A team can never have too much speed but to say the 49ers did not address the issue of speed this year is not accurate.
I liked the draft with the exception of Byham in the 6th round (Tony Curtis provides the same value without wasting another draft pick). Every player presented value at a position of need (though Bowman is a questionable fit). My favorite pick of the entire draft, however was Kyle Williams. This kid was one of the top 10 fastest players at the combine and is a highly productive WR with quick hands. He is a protypical slot receiver, which is the one position we needed in our wr core. He compares very favorably to Mike Wallace of the Pittsburgh Steelers. I see him being the best value addition of this draft and best statistical contributor over the next few years (besides maybe Anthony Dixon in short yardage).
A


I love the Davis and Iupati picks so much that nothing else matters and thats a good thing because rds 2 and 3 are real head scratchers to me. Mays is a total combine pick (IMO) and Bowman is a square peg in a round hole.
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by communist:
still no speed at the offense, neither at WR (kyle williams is too small actually and ted ginn isnt a reliable WR) nor at RB. at least we improved our o-line and we got a blocking TE...no covering SS, no real good CB and i dont know if the niners can pass-rush consistently against the better teams. thus once again we could get big problems at defending the pass...very lethal in a pass-happy league.

No grade?

Still you put your finger on the problem with this draft.

No SPEED.

A very amatuerishly run draft. A panic at the outset which cost the team a fourth rounder that was sorely needed later on. No legitimate cb. No safety to cover the third receiver, as you point out.

An immature fascination with the workout numbers for Mays . . . but he hasn't shown any skills as a player. The only redemption that I see for him is if he is used as a hybrid linebacker to put pressure on the passer . . . but that's a big reach because we don't know if he can do that. Lord knows, we need an enhanced pass rush. Opponents will light us up with their passing game. With a desperate need for speed in the defensive backfield, the team drafts a MLB, a RB who seems to fits Coffee's description, and a slow blocking TE!!??

I agree with the first round pick at OT. But not the guard with our second pick. That should have come later, with all the other critical needs requiring resolution. BTW I don't believe that either of the first rounders are shoe-in pro bowlers . . . they're going to need serious coaching (do we have that . . . really?). Davis has the physique, but he has the reputation for being a slacker. If he is predisposed to being that way, he will never be great . . . motivator or no motivator. Still, now that it's done, let's hope that it all works out and the team does not have to visit the OL issue for a LONG time. That possibiltity is certainly a positive.

Very dissapointed with the picks taken after the first round.

The draft could have been managed better. Getting more picks and filling more needs. Like I said . . . Amatuerish.

Grade: a solid C.

PS: Ooops! I forgot to factor in the Ginn trade for the 5th pick.

Revised grade: A solid C+
I agree they have needed speed. However, they GOT speed in two critical areas.

One, the 5th round pick, Ginn, is a burner and an established return guy. He will bring the speed the passing game has lacked.

Two, you don't seem to like Mays but I think you are being too critical and ignoring the fact his role at USC seemed to change this past year. (more on that later) Even if Mays is "only" 4.45, he will be as fast, or faster than any of the RBs he will face.

The greatest speed need the defense had was not in the secondary but in not having enough guys to get to the edge on running plays. If Willis was blocked or slowed down, no one else could get there. Mays will be a second guy with speed to get to the edge. It will be hard to block them both.

My initial reluctance to embrace the Mays pick was my own pre-disposition of wanting a "cover" safety. However, as I looked it over, I think he was the right pick. Goldson, though he sometimes showed his inexperience, did show ballhawking ability. Also, his play recognition and general field generalship was fine. With Mays now in the lineup to seal the edges and cover TEs, Goldson can now focus on being the cover safety on slot receivers, which is what was lacking last year. What that amounts to is that the 49ers HAD the cover safety, now they have a bigger, much faster, and younger SS to both seal the edge and cover the TE, something Lewis just cannot do.

The final "speed" issue is more subtle: Frank Gore is faster than many seem to realize. When the line gives him a hole, he doesn't get caught from behind very often. What we all want to see is the 49ers running to the outside more often to spread out the defense. The problem this last year was that they did not have LINEMEN quick and agile enough to get outside to lead Gore. While I was somewhat disappointed to see Sheets put on the PS and then leave, it would have done no good to have an outside runner on a team with no linemen to get out to block for him.

The picks of Davis and Iupati will change that. Both of them are MUCH quicker and agile than either Snyder or Baas. By having faster linemen that can get outside to lead, it will make the entire running game look speedier.

A team can never have too much speed but to say the 49ers did not address the issue of speed this year is not accurate.

You make good points.

Your discussion on the speed topic addresses a whole different aspect of the game than I was thinking of. But re your points:

1. Sealing off the edges requires speed and ability to judge angles. In other words, good instincts to go with speed. We don't know that Mays has that. We do know that he has very poor football fundamentals. His tackling is atrocious, as he does not wrap up the ball carrier. In college they simply glanced off and kept going. Can't do that in the pros. Also we will see how Mays does getting to the outside.

2. We need speed in the defensive backfield. And more important agility. Someone fluid with quick change-of-direction skills. Someone who can take on the third receiver, something being utilized more and more these days. Mays is not, and was not drafted to be, that guy. Lewis is better than a lot of people give him credit for. He's getting long in the tooth; we'll see if Mays can fill his role better.

3. I don't believe that speed on the offensive line is something Singletary values, especially not over bulk. Iupati is not quick on his feet. That was one of the reasons given for why he would probably not be good candidate for converting to tackle. Davis has better footwork, but his effectivenes is yet to be determined.

4.The speed that I was alluding to was: Speed in the backfield; a quick scat back (that's not Gore, but would be someone who would complement Gore). Speed at wide receiver (Ginn so far has not proved to be reliable in that role). Speed and elusiveness at OLB. Coverage speed in the defensive backfield, particularly at corner.

5. I'm pleased to see that we selected a receiver who can play the slot. But it obviously wasn't a priority given the lateness of the pick. In fact, he may not even make the final rostert. Another wait and see.

Anyway upon reflection: I am less chagrined over the draft than what I perceive to be the direction the team is taking. Which the team's selections reflect. A dogged 1980s brand of black and blue division football. I think that that approach is antiquated and we don't have the coaching necessary to play the balanced but creative brand of football that most successful teams are employing.
FYI....another opinion, but it reads good
http://profootball.scout.com/2/965608.html
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by communist:
still no speed at the offense, neither at WR (kyle williams is too small actually and ted ginn isnt a reliable WR) nor at RB. at least we improved our o-line and we got a blocking TE...no covering SS, no real good CB and i dont know if the niners can pass-rush consistently against the better teams. thus once again we could get big problems at defending the pass...very lethal in a pass-happy league.

No grade?

Still you put your finger on the problem with this draft.

No SPEED.

A very amatuerishly run draft. A panic at the outset which cost the team a fourth rounder that was sorely needed later on. No legitimate cb. No safety to cover the third receiver, as you point out.

An immature fascination with the workout numbers for Mays . . . but he hasn't shown any skills as a player. The only redemption that I see for him is if he is used as a hybrid linebacker to put pressure on the passer . . . but that's a big reach because we don't know if he can do that. Lord knows, we need an enhanced pass rush. Opponents will light us up with their passing game. With a desperate need for speed in the defensive backfield, the team drafts a MLB, a RB who seems to fits Coffee's description, and a slow blocking TE!!??

I agree with the first round pick at OT. But not the guard with our second pick. That should have come later, with all the other critical needs requiring resolution. BTW I don't believe that either of the first rounders are shoe-in pro bowlers . . . they're going to need serious coaching (do we have that . . . really?). Davis has the physique, but he has the reputation for being a slacker. If he is predisposed to being that way, he will never be great . . . motivator or no motivator. Still, now that it's done, let's hope that it all works out and the team does not have to visit the OL issue for a LONG time. That possibiltity is certainly a positive.

Very dissapointed with the picks taken after the first round.

The draft could have been managed better. Getting more picks and filling more needs. Like I said . . . Amatuerish.

Grade: a solid C.

PS: Ooops! I forgot to factor in the Ginn trade for the 5th pick.

Revised grade: A solid C+
I agree they have needed speed. However, they GOT speed in two critical areas.

One, the 5th round pick, Ginn, is a burner and an established return guy. He will bring the speed the passing game has lacked.

Two, you don't seem to like Mays but I think you are being too critical and ignoring the fact his role at USC seemed to change this past year. (more on that later) Even if Mays is "only" 4.45, he will be as fast, or faster than any of the RBs he will face.

The greatest speed need the defense had was not in the secondary but in not having enough guys to get to the edge on running plays. If Willis was blocked or slowed down, no one else could get there. Mays will be a second guy with speed to get to the edge. It will be hard to block them both.

My initial reluctance to embrace the Mays pick was my own pre-disposition of wanting a "cover" safety. However, as I looked it over, I think he was the right pick. Goldson, though he sometimes showed his inexperience, did show ballhawking ability. Also, his play recognition and general field generalship was fine. With Mays now in the lineup to seal the edges and cover TEs, Goldson can now focus on being the cover safety on slot receivers, which is what was lacking last year. What that amounts to is that the 49ers HAD the cover safety, now they have a bigger, much faster, and younger SS to both seal the edge and cover the TE, something Lewis just cannot do.

The final "speed" issue is more subtle: Frank Gore is faster than many seem to realize. When the line gives him a hole, he doesn't get caught from behind very often. What we all want to see is the 49ers running to the outside more often to spread out the defense. The problem this last year was that they did not have LINEMEN quick and agile enough to get outside to lead Gore. While I was somewhat disappointed to see Sheets put on the PS and then leave, it would have done no good to have an outside runner on a team with no linemen to get out to block for him.

The picks of Davis and Iupati will change that. Both of them are MUCH quicker and agile than either Snyder or Baas. By having faster linemen that can get outside to lead, it will make the entire running game look speedier.

A team can never have too much speed but to say the 49ers did not address the issue of speed this year is not accurate.

You make good points.

Your discussion on the speed topic addresses a whole different aspect of the game than I was thinking of. But re your points:

1. Sealing off the edges requires speed and ability to judge angles. In other words, good instincts to go with speed. We don't know that Mays has that. We do know that he has very poor football fundamentals. His tackling is atrocious, as he does not wrap up the ball carrier. In college they simply glanced off and kept going. Can't do that in the pros. Also we will see how Mays does getting to the outside.

2. We need speed in the defensive backfield. And more important agility. Someone fluid with quick change-of-direction skills. Someone who can take on the third receiver, something being utilized more and more these days. Mays is not, and was not drafted to be, that guy. Lewis is better than a lot of people give him credit for. He's getting long in the tooth; we'll see if Mays can fill his role better.

3. I don't believe that speed on the offensive line is something Singletary values, especially not over bulk. Iupati is not quick on his feet. That was one of the reasons given for why he would probably not be good candidate for converting to tackle. Davis has better footwork, but his effectivenes is yet to be determined.

4.The speed that I was alluding to was: Speed in the backfield; a quick scat back (that's not Gore, but would be someone who would complement Gore). Speed at wide receiver (Ginn so far has not proved to be reliable in that role). Speed and elusiveness at OLB. Coverage speed in the defensive backfield, particularly at corner.

5. I'm pleased to see that we selected a receiver who can play the slot. But it obviously wasn't a priority given the lateness of the pick. In fact, he may not even make the final rostert. Another wait and see.

Anyway upon reflection: I am less chagrined over the draft than what I perceive to be the direction the team is taking. Which the team's selections reflect. A dogged 1980s brand of black and blue division football. I think that that approach is antiquated and we don't have the coaching necessary to play the balanced but creative brand of football that most successful teams are employing.

I share your dislike for power running, "enforce our will" football. I don't think that can get you to the Promised Land anymore. The last team to do that was Parcells Giants and that was a long time ago. Now it is a passing league. A quick Felix Jones-type back is still a need. This season will show Singletary whether his vision of this team is workable or if he needs to change it.

As to Mays, we will have to see. If Lott is going to be as involved as it seems (or everyone hopes), Mays should be just fine.

I also like Kyle Williams. He may be the one sleeper in this draft that can make a big difference if Ginn can't. All it takes is that threat to "lift the lid" to change a defense and allow the offense to make plays.

Though I am not very comfortable with Clements' play, the secondary didn't get beat as much on speed as scheme and moves. Usually it was someone biting on a move and then getting beat deep. Brown is the key to stopping slot receivers, not the FS or SS. It will be time for him to step up this year.

I haven't heard the complaint that Iupati has slow feet. The comment I heard from the Senior Bowl was that he just didn't seem to have the feel for playing on the edge. We will see. He is much quicker than Baas, which is the good news.

Though there was improvement in speed and quickness, this team still needs more speed to move to the elite level. Lawson is OK but Haralson/Brooks have not shown they can hold/seal the edge. That is an area that needs improvement.

I still like this draft as a B, and hope some of the speed guys show up.
Originally posted by dj43:


I share your dislike for power running, "enforce our will" football. I don't think that can get you to the Promised Land anymore. The last team to do that was Parcells Giants and that was a long time ago. Now it is a passing league. A quick Felix Jones-type back is still a need. This season will show Singletary whether his vision of this team is workable or if he needs to change it.

As to Mays, we will have to see. If Lott is going to be as involved as it seems (or everyone hopes), Mays should be just fine.

I also like Kyle Williams. He may be the one sleeper in this draft that can make a big difference if Ginn can't. All it takes is that threat to "lift the lid" to change a defense and allow the offense to make plays.

Though I am not very comfortable with Clements' play, the secondary didn't get beat as much on speed as scheme and moves. Usually it was someone biting on a move and then getting beat deep. Brown is the key to stopping slot receivers, not the FS or SS. It will be time for him to step up this year.

I haven't heard the complaint that Iupati has slow feet. The comment I heard from the Senior Bowl was that he just didn't seem to have the feel for playing on the edge. We will see. He is much quicker than Baas, which is the good news.

Though there was improvement in speed and quickness, this team still needs more speed to move to the elite level. Lawson is OK but Haralson/Brooks have not shown they can hold/seal the edge. That is an area that needs improvement.

I still like this draft as a B, and hope some of the speed guys show up.

I'm OK with that.
Originally posted by Rsrkshn:
Originally posted by dj43:


I share your dislike for power running, "enforce our will" football. I don't think that can get you to the Promised Land anymore. The last team to do that was Parcells Giants and that was a long time ago. Now it is a passing league. A quick Felix Jones-type back is still a need. This season will show Singletary whether his vision of this team is workable or if he needs to change it.

As to Mays, we will have to see. If Lott is going to be as involved as it seems (or everyone hopes), Mays should be just fine.

I also like Kyle Williams. He may be the one sleeper in this draft that can make a big difference if Ginn can't. All it takes is that threat to "lift the lid" to change a defense and allow the offense to make plays.

Though I am not very comfortable with Clements' play, the secondary didn't get beat as much on speed as scheme and moves. Usually it was someone biting on a move and then getting beat deep. Brown is the key to stopping slot receivers, not the FS or SS. It will be time for him to step up this year.

I haven't heard the complaint that Iupati has slow feet. The comment I heard from the Senior Bowl was that he just didn't seem to have the feel for playing on the edge. We will see. He is much quicker than Baas, which is the good news.

Though there was improvement in speed and quickness, this team still needs more speed to move to the elite level. Lawson is OK but Haralson/Brooks have not shown they can hold/seal the edge. That is an area that needs improvement.

I still like this draft as a B, and hope some of the speed guys show up.

I'm OK with that.
BTW, welcome to the 'zone.
Originally posted by dj43:

BTW, welcome to the 'zone.

Thanks!
Originally posted by Walsh:
Originally posted by KID9R:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
I gave it an F, too many reaches, not enough immediate help for a team that THINKS it can make the play offs. This is a coach killing draft. We filled needs at O-line that we could have filled through free agency with guys who MIGHT be ready. We appear to have loaded up with talent to run the most boring Singletary run run punt offense ever, great more predictable play calling coming soon! Bad draft bad direction bad coaching bad ownership, the only thing this team has going for it is us die hard fans!

We filled the needs Mel Kiper and all the media whores said we should! That spells trouble.

We still lack speed on both sides of the ball at way too many positions!
We still lack a RB that spreads the defense
We still lack a speed Wide out Ted Ginn really is a kick returner, thats all.
We are still one D-linemen short of having 3 starter for our 3-4
We still lack a pure pass rush OLB
We still lack a speed CB
But we have to frickin awesome prospects at O-line!

Hope I am way wrong, even if I am not I will still root for my beloved Niners!

Ya its just to bad there isn't 15 rounds in the draft

Agreed.

I think his first 2 points translate into "Why couldn't we get CJ Spiller??"
As for pure pass rusher. Bowman was ranked a first round talent by espn analysts last year. They can't all be Brandon Graham.
We've spent a lot more picks on D-line than O-line. You probably haven't checked out Balmers highlight reel. Check it out!

http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/thread.php?num=140998&highlight=balmer

Maybe I dislike this draft because I remember THIS!

I just think the management rather than look at what I feel is poor , coaching, poor game planning and poor play calling, they are simply throwing draft picks at the O-line!
With Warhop, and Forester gone, we will now see and improvement in line play regardless of who we drafted, unless Raye continues in what he did last season.
After thinking on this draft and looking hard at the available talent, we did okay, I still think being only the third team in NFL history to take 2 o-linemen in the first round is well kinda weak. Maybe I should give this draft a D or and INCOMPLETE?