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The no OL in the 1st round mock! Lets change things up...

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Those who don't want to fix the OL properly.

One big problem: Davis, Bulaga and Williams are not worth a mid first round pick. You want to build a mediocre OL? We already have plenty of average offensive linemen who were taken higher than they deserved and taking Davis/Bulaga/Williams will yield the same results.

1.) Said who?
2.) Based on what?

Lets compare this situation to our DL situation a few years back. In 2007 we DESPERATELY NEEDED D-LINEMEN just like today we DESPERATELY NEED O-LINEMEN. Lots of people wanted Carriker because he would 'fill a hole for the next decade'. In retrospect, Carriker was a late-1st/early 2nd pick who got way over-hyped because of his position. McC took a superemely talented player at a position that the zone considered less important and the rest is history.

The point is a player is not guaranteed to live up to his hype. In fact their chances of success are drastically reduced the farther you reach.

Lets drop this 'take any OT available and they will be great for us now and for the next decade' line of thinking. That is not the way to fix an OL properly.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Those who don't want to fix the OL properly.

One big problem: Davis, Bulaga and Williams are not worth a mid first round pick. You want to build a mediocre OL? We already have plenty of average offensive linemen who were taken higher than they deserved and taking Davis/Bulaga/Williams will yield the same results.

1.) Said who?
2.) Based on what?

If you want to disagree with my talent assessment, that is fine. But I haven't yet seen any good discussion breaking down these three and making any attempt to differentiate them. Every post goes like this: Mock draft pick #13) BPAOT kthanksbye.
I agree that Spiller is not a Luxury but a NEED and a real good player. He would be dynamic for this team. I would love to have him and wouldn't even mind him at #13. For all the guys complaining about it have you seen the impact of Chris Johnson? Even a poor mans Chris Johnson is worth the #13 pick IMO. And CJ himself would go a lot higher if they did that draft over.

However like Ghost said I understand if we address the O Line with 1 or both picks. It's not like we don't need that. We sure do. Didn't the Jets pick 2 1st rounders on the O Line one year? Look at their line. A great O Line plus a real good D. can go a long way for this team and it's not a bad way to build.

Somehow though I still feel we need a dynamic super speedy gamebreaker. Other than Vernon Davis can you think of anybody on this offense who is a threat to take it the distance every time?
[ Edited by SanDiego49er on Jan 29, 2010 at 3:18 PM ]
Quote:
Lets compare this situation to our DL situation a few years back. In 2007 we DESPERATELY NEEDED D-LINEMEN just like today we DESPERATELY NEED O-LINEMEN. Lots of people wanted Carriker because he would 'fill a hole for the next decade'. In retrospect, Carriker was a late-1st/early 2nd pick who got way over-hyped because of his position. McC took a superemely talented player at a position that the zone considered less important and the rest is history.

That's not entirely fair. Many of the most savvy webzoners were for Willis in 2007 on the grounds that we needed "playmakers" on both sides of the ball. Same argument for Spiller now, which many of us are making. But luckily we have 2 1st-rounders and all the other picks, so we can cover a lot of needs.

As far as how to build an OL, the Jets line is a good case study. 4 of their 5 lineman are 1st round picks, but only 2 came from Jets picks. 2 were FA signees. The other was a UFA they tried to dump several times but who turned out to be a good player. Even Ferguson, a #4 overall pick, took 4 years to mature. Building a championship offensive line takes a mix of high picks, FA signings, coaching and patience. We've got a couple of the building blocks already; let's see if we can do it. I'd recommend using the #16 pick on a RT prospect and 1 or 2 later rounds picks on OGs.
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Those who don't want to fix the OL properly.

One big problem: Davis, Bulaga and Williams are not worth a mid first round pick. You want to build a mediocre OL? We already have plenty of average offensive linemen who were taken higher than they deserved and taking Davis/Bulaga/Williams will yield the same results.

1.) Said who?
2.) Based on what?

If you want to disagree with my talent assessment, that is fine. But I haven't yet seen any good discussion breaking down these three and making any attempt to differentiate them. Every post goes like this: Mock draft pick #13) BPAOT kthanksbye.

You didn't make an assessment, you made an assertion:

"Davis, Bulaga and Williams are not worth a mid first round pick."

You made this statement. I'm asking you to explain why.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Those who don't want to fix the OL properly.

One big problem: Davis, Bulaga and Williams are not worth a mid first round pick. You want to build a mediocre OL? We already have plenty of average offensive linemen who were taken higher than they deserved and taking Davis/Bulaga/Williams will yield the same results.

1.) Said who?
2.) Based on what?

If you want to disagree with my talent assessment, that is fine. But I haven't yet seen any good discussion breaking down these three and making any attempt to differentiate them. Every post goes like this: Mock draft pick #13) BPAOT kthanksbye.

You didn't make an assessment, you made an assertion:

"Davis, Bulaga and Williams are not worth a mid first round pick."

You made this statement. I'm asking you to explain why.

I think they are mediocre first-rounders who are going to get drafted higher than they should because of the position they play rather than their talent level.

OTs are like QBs, almost every team needs them. This causes them to get drafted much higher than they normally would.
Originally posted by Hopper:
Gore gives us a pro bowl season and people want a RB in the first round. It just makes me facepalm with so many other important needs.
forget about spiller in special, think about a playmaker in general...thats what the people are talking about and i'm starting to understand them.
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Those who don't want to fix the OL properly.

One big problem: Davis, Bulaga and Williams are not worth a mid first round pick. You want to build a mediocre OL? We already have plenty of average offensive linemen who were taken higher than they deserved and taking Davis/Bulaga/Williams will yield the same results.

1.) Said who?
2.) Based on what?

If you want to disagree with my talent assessment, that is fine. But I haven't yet seen any good discussion breaking down these three and making any attempt to differentiate them. Every post goes like this: Mock draft pick #13) BPAOT kthanksbye.

You didn't make an assessment, you made an assertion:

"Davis, Bulaga and Williams are not worth a mid first round pick."

You made this statement. I'm asking you to explain why.

I think they are mediocre first-rounders who are going to get drafted higher than they should because of the position they play rather than their talent level.

OTs are like QBs, almost every team needs them. This causes them to get drafted much higher than they normally would.

Anthony davis is very athletic and is really strong and has tremendous upside hes top 15 pick Balgua is a mauler strong and never gives up on a play he is excellent in the 2nd level and along with his motor has good feeetwork he is a top 15-20 pick as well Trent Williams ill give you that he is strictly a RT but is dominant at that and is really strong

i agree talentwise this is not as good as last years as only okung is probally would be in the top 2 or 3 but this is still a good class and all are first round talents (except maybe bruce cambell who is extremely athletic but very very raw)
n00b-question. what do you mean with "2nd level"???
Originally posted by communist:
n00b-question. what do you mean with "2nd level"???

he goes to block linebackers
but you dont mean the typical olbs, who the OTs have to block nearly anytime because a lot of teams play with a 3-4, do you??
Originally posted by communist:
but you dont mean the typical olbs, who the OTs have to block nearly anytime because a lot of teams play with a 3-4, do you??

no its mainly middle line backers or safety but it can also be the OLB if they're not pass rushing blocking in 2nd level usually leads to the big running plays
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by Hopper:
Gore gives us a pro bowl season and people want a RB in the first round. It just makes me facepalm with so many other important needs.
forget about spiller in special, think about a playmaker in general...thats what the people are talking about and i'm starting to understand them.

Gore had 13 td's. He's far enough of a playmaker to avoid taking a RB in the first round.
There are a few things to think about before drafting a right tackle in the first. First off is the money to be paid will it be more than youre starting lt if so how do you justify paying it. Two everyone keeps drafting left tackles in there mocks and assuming that they can play right tackle. We all have seen that is not the case with Sims and Snyder to an degree. Basicly you are gambling that a first round pick can make the adjustment. Sounds like most of you have a little Mc Cloughin in you. I think they will play it safe resign Pashos as the starter take best player availble in the first and fill in gaurd and tackle depth in the rest of the draft.
Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:
Originally posted by communist:
but you dont mean the typical olbs, who the OTs have to block nearly anytime because a lot of teams play with a 3-4, do you??

no its mainly middle line backers or safety but it can also be the OLB if they're not pass rushing blocking in 2nd level usually leads to the big running plays
thx for the explanation

Originally posted by Hopper:

Gore had 13 td's. He's far enough of a playmaker to avoid taking a RB in the first round.
we need more threats...IF we are in a situation where you have to reach for a need or to take a bpa=RB like spiller, then I will be on the rb/spiller-bandwaggon.
If you have a speedy gonzales on RB, who can catch and pass block as well and you have a damn good power RB and a second promising (at least in my eyes) power RB, then you have already a lot of dimensions, caused "only" by your RB-corps...thats would be a big advantage.
it could disengage smith because our plays would get less predictable than they were last season. hence, it could take some pressure off our receivers and we could make more plays either way.
[ Edited by communist on Jan 30, 2010 at 11:46 AM ]