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The no OL in the 1st round mock! Lets change things up...

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
You know what? I'd be okay with this. Do I see it happening, though? Not really. I think we'll take an OL in round one almost guaranteed.

I'd only be okay with this if we landed those exact players (or better) in the 2nd/3rd. Except for Wang. Stay away from him. He has fast feet because he's a converter tight end, but don't be fooled. When he gets in game in the NFL, I can see him struggling to get proper leverage and lose ground on the bull-rush.

But an Asamoah/Fox combo (arguably two first round talents -- I grade Jon as a 2nd, and Jason as a 1st) would be an exceptional value. Fox only drops because of the shoulder injury.

Rounds 3 through 6 are excellent. Great work, in my opinion. Especially for a newer poster.

Thanks OTC. I was just trying to think about the draft from a different angle. People criticize the mock, but I got a solid G in FA, the second best guard in the draft, and a good RT prospect (maybe not a blue-chip one, but one that I think could do the job). People here are so in love with Iupati (rightfully so) that getting the second best G and a good but not great RT is not good enough. The Colts do not have anyone higher than a 4th rounder on their Oline.

I want to win the Super Bowl. Not just make the playoffs, but WIN the Super Bowl. I just don't believe we have enough firepower and playmakers on offense or defense to make a run at the Super Bowl, and we can get TWO real playmakers on each side of the ball in the first round that will have major impacts on games. If we want to win the Super Bowl, we need more explosive athletes on the team at high-impact positions. People believe taking Spiller is a luxury, but I actually think taking Iupati (the best G in the draft) is a luxury we can't afford to take when doing so causes us to miss out on athletes like Spiller and Graham. What's wrong with the second best guard, a solid guard in FA, and a decent RT prospect? Isn't that going to upgrade the line?

I appreciate the compliment OTC. I don't post very much but have been reading the zone for a few years. It is everyone here at the zone that caused me to become addicted to the draft. I also appreciate everyne's comments, positive or negative.
[ Edited by ezekiel40 on Jan 29, 2010 at 9:37 AM ]
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
This brings up an interestiing point. For the record I dont think we should or will exit the first round without our future right tackle. But I have seen the occasional mock where two very talented potential top 5-10 picks make it back to us due to needs of certain teams above for specific positions. For example I saw a draft that said we could grab Hayden and Spiller in the first...with Hayden taking a free fall and Spiller really on being taken 1 or 2 later than most think. So my question is this. To add another layer to the original post. What 2 guys would have to be there for you to say, hell with it, I will get a RT in the second round?

The only players I want in the first round are, in order of preference: 1. Graham, 2. Spiller, 3. Best RT available (Davis, Bulaga, Williams), 4. Iupati. Hence, my mock bein the way it was. If Spiller is not there, take Oline first and then Graham. But if he is there, I think it is worth it to take both Spiller and Graham and then O-line in rounds 2 an 3.

If Spiller is not there, I'd want to trade back from 13 to the 20's and grab a the best RT at #16 and take Graham with next pick in the 1st round. Then take Jahvid Best and Asomoah in the second (using the extra pick from trading back),and then the best FS/SS available in the 3rd.

I just want Brandon Graham on this team, period. So if Spiller is there too, we should get them both. But ultimately Iwant Brandon Graham to find his way onto the niners.
[ Edited by ezekiel40 on Jan 29, 2010 at 10:00 AM ]
Originally posted by ezekiel40:
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
This brings up an interestiing point. For the record I dont think we should or will exit the first round without our future right tackle. But I have seen the occasional mock where two very talented potential top 5-10 picks make it back to us due to needs of certain teams above for specific positions. For example I saw a draft that said we could grab Hayden and Spiller in the first...with Hayden taking a free fall and Spiller really on being taken 1 or 2 later than most think. So my question is this. To add another layer to the original post. What 2 guys would have to be there for you to say, hell with it, I will get a RT in the second round?

The only players I want in the first round are, in order of preference: 1. Graham, 2. Spiller, 3. Best RT available (Davis, Bulaga, Williams), 4. Iupati. Hence, my mock bein the way it was. If Spiller is not there, take Oline first and then Graham. But if he is there, I think it is worth it to take both Spiller and Graham and then O-line in rounds 2 an 3.

If Spiller is not there, I'd want to trade back from 13 to the 20's and grab a the best RT at #16 and take Graham with next pick in the 1st round. Then take Jahvid Best and Asomoah in the second (using the extra pick from trading back),and then the best FS/SS available in the 3rd.

I just want Brandon Graham on this team, period. So if Spiller is there too, we should get them both. But ultimately Iwant Brandon Graham to find his way onto the niners.

I think this is good reasoning and a good draft. I can hardly wait for the draft to know what will happen.
Gore gives us a pro bowl season and people want a RB in the first round. It just makes me facepalm with so many other important needs.
Originally posted by ezekiel40:
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
This brings up an interestiing point. For the record I dont think we should or will exit the first round without our future right tackle. But I have seen the occasional mock where two very talented potential top 5-10 picks make it back to us due to needs of certain teams above for specific positions. For example I saw a draft that said we could grab Hayden and Spiller in the first...with Hayden taking a free fall and Spiller really on being taken 1 or 2 later than most think. So my question is this. To add another layer to the original post. What 2 guys would have to be there for you to say, hell with it, I will get a RT in the second round?

The only players I want in the first round are, in order of preference: 1. Graham, 2. Spiller, 3. Best RT available (Davis, Bulaga, Williams), 4. Iupati. Hence, my mock bein the way it was. If Spiller is not there, take Oline first and then Graham. But if he is there, I think it is worth it to take both Spiller and Graham and then O-line in rounds 2 an 3.

If Spiller is not there, I'd want to trade back from 13 to the 20's and grab a the best RT at #16 and take Graham with next pick in the 1st round. Then take Jahvid Best and Asomoah in the second (using the extra pick from trading back),and then the best FS/SS available in the 3rd.

I just want Brandon Graham on this team, period. So if Spiller is there too, we should get them both. But ultimately Iwant Brandon Graham to find his way onto the niners.

As much as I love Iupati, I can't fault you for taking Graham. I love me some Graham too even though it's not a position of need. But he is a true stud.
Originally posted by bigwads:
Those who don't want to fix the OL properly.
I'd be very happy with this draft, but I don't see it happening. I think there's a good reason most of the mocks here include an o-lineman of some sort with one of the 1st rounders (and very likely, at #13). I just don't see any realistic scenarios that don't include either a pure OT or someone like Iupati with our first pick.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I'd be very happy with this draft, but I don't see it happening. I think there's a good reason most of the mocks here include an o-lineman of some sort with one of the 1st rounders (and very likely, at #13). I just don't see any realistic scenarios that don't include either a pure OT or someone like Iupati with our first pick.

Fair enough Ghost, and I'm glad you would personally be happy with this draft. You are right in that most likely we will pick a OL with our first pick. I made this mock to show what I would do if Spiller were available at #13 (who I believe would be BPA), and to show how much I really want Graham, in particular, on this team. I'd be fine with OL with the first pick (i just really hope Spiller is gone then by #13), as long as we get Graham with the second pick.

If we don't draft Spiller at #13, or if he has already been picked, hopefully we could trade back from one of our 1st round picks to acquire an extra second and draft Best.
Originally posted by Dblj55:
I like the approach, nice to read something different. I also like the players, especially Graham.

Agree. Would like to get Graham for sure.
Originally posted by ezekiel40:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I'd be very happy with this draft, but I don't see it happening. I think there's a good reason most of the mocks here include an o-lineman of some sort with one of the 1st rounders (and very likely, at #13). I just don't see any realistic scenarios that don't include either a pure OT or someone like Iupati with our first pick.

Fair enough Ghost, and I'm glad you would personally be happy with this draft. You are right in that most likely we will pick a OL with our first pick. I made this mock to show what I would do if Spiller were available at #13 (who I believe would be BPA), and to show how much I really want Graham, in particular, on this team. I'd be fine with OL with the first pick (i just really hope Spiller is gone then by #13), as long as we get Graham with the second pick.

If we don't draft Spiller at #13, or if he has already been picked, hopefully we could trade back from one of our 1st round picks to acquire an extra second and draft Best.

I definitely like the idea of trading back from on of our 1st rounders, but I'm not as sold on Best as I am on Spiller from a durability standpoint. They're both explosive and versatile offensive weapons, but Spiller has managed to avoid serious injury throughout his college career, unlike Best.

That would be my only concern, but I hear where you're coming from.

Bottom line, though, grabbing Spiller and Graham via trading back would be my dream scenario...getting a playmaker in the 1st for both sides of the ball would be amazing. But I get why many want to upgrade the o-line with a 1st rounder (or even two), and understand why team managment will likely do just that.
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by ezekiel40:
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
I'd be very happy with this draft, but I don't see it happening. I think there's a good reason most of the mocks here include an o-lineman of some sort with one of the 1st rounders (and very likely, at #13). I just don't see any realistic scenarios that don't include either a pure OT or someone like Iupati with our first pick.

Fair enough Ghost, and I'm glad you would personally be happy with this draft. You are right in that most likely we will pick a OL with our first pick. I made this mock to show what I would do if Spiller were available at #13 (who I believe would be BPA), and to show how much I really want Graham, in particular, on this team. I'd be fine with OL with the first pick (i just really hope Spiller is gone then by #13), as long as we get Graham with the second pick.

If we don't draft Spiller at #13, or if he has already been picked, hopefully we could trade back from one of our 1st round picks to acquire an extra second and draft Best.

I definitely like the idea of trading back from on of our 1st rounders, but I'm not as sold on Best as I am on Spiller from a durability standpoint. They're both explosive and versatile offensive weapons, but Spiller has managed to avoid serious injury throughout his college career, unlike Best.

That would be my only concern, but I hear where you're coming from.

Bottom line, though, grabbing Spiller and Graham via trading back would be my dream scenario...getting a playmaker in the 1st for both sides of the ball would be amazing. But I get why many want to upgrade the o-line with a 1st rounder (or even two), and understand why team managment will likely do just that.

I am with you on Best and his durability, hence why it is not my first option to pass on Spiller and pick Best up in the 2nd. But Best, when healthy, can be about as explosive as Spiller, and I think we need more fast and explosive players.

Again, I'm happy you at least see that while team management will most likely use at least one of the 1st rounders on OL, it wouldn't be a bad thing for this team to select Spiller and Graham in the first round and OL in rounds 2 and 3. In fact, I believe that Spiller and Graham would make this team BETTER than if we go OL in round 1 (as long as we get Asomoah and Fox/Calloway in rounds 2 and 3).
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Those who don't want to fix the OL properly.

One big problem: Davis, Bulaga and Williams are not worth a mid first round pick. You want to build a mediocre OL? We already have plenty of average offensive linemen who were taken higher than they deserved and taking Davis/Bulaga/Williams will yield the same results.
Originally posted by ezekiel40:
I realize that we are in dire need of OL talent to help our team. However, I don't think we necessarily HAVE to fix our O-line problems in the 1st round, IF and only IF 2 particular players are available, of which one should definitely be. We have a new O-line coaching staff, which hopefully are better than our previous O-line coaches, and I'd like to see if they can coach up the players we already have, especially Rachal. In addition, our GM i don't think will draft a G in the 1st. The key for me is whether we can pick up a solid LG in FA, and hopefully there are a couple available. If we can, then we can pass on Iupati, even though he is an incredible prospect. But we need more playmakers on this team, on offense and on defense. I just don't want to draft a RT in the first round because we NEED a right tackle, when there are some other playmakers available at valuable position such as OLB. So here is my draft....(and this is IF we get a G in FA)

Free Agency

Hixon PR/KR
Best FA guard available (Neal, etc..)

Resign:

Brooks
Franklin
Sims
Bly
Pashos

Draft:

1. CJ Spiller RB/KR - This is BPA at pick #13. He is not just a luxury pick, but a NEED. Gore gets injured and is out a few games a year, and is a between the tackles runner. Spiller is the PERFECT compliment to Gore, as he has track speed to threaten the edge of the defense and is a threat to take it all the way on any play he is in the game. He is also big enough to be our feature back when Gore is done, and is needed insurance if Gore goes down to injury. He will extend Gore's career as well, and he can pass protect too! Perfect for our spread offense. He solves our KR problem as well, and turns this area into a strength right away. He will have more of an impact on the game in terms of explosive plays then Iupati (and Iupati is outstanding). If he is not there, then take Iupati or the best RT available, but it is the next guy I really want at our second pick in the first round.

Trade back into the early twenties with a team who wants Iupati or another player. Pick up an extra 3rd. Because we got a quality G in FA, we don't have to take Iupati here and miss the one player I really think we need on this team.

1. Brandon Graham OLB - We need this guy. He is the best OLB prospect in the draft IMO, and will be huge for our pass rush. We don't have a lot of depth on the edge, and I believe he will be starting within a very short time upon his arrival on the niners. Like MadDog and OTC have said, Graham has been a man amongst boys during his college career, and will dominate in the NFL, at an extremely valuable and highly coveted position. With Brooks on the other side, and Lawson and Haralson to rotate in as depth, our pass rush is now a huge strength of our defense. I was hoping Austen Lane and other later round OLB's would impress, but Lane has struggled and not one looks NFL-ready like Graham.

2. Jon Asamoah G - Here is where we get our guard to compete with Rachal on the right side of the line. Remember we got our LG in FA. He is the second best G in the draft....is that really so bad? Iupati is amazing, but he just doesn't play a position important enough to pass on an elite edge rusher and the best playmaking RB in the draft with top end speed. So we get the next best thing with Asamoah.

3. Jason Fox / Kyle Calloway / Ed Wang RT - Taking a RT here in the third round gives us great value for this position. Fox was once a second round prospect but had some issue (I forgot what it was), and could be there in the third i think (OTC correct me if I am wrong about this). Calloway had a great bowl game at RT for Iowa, and I believe our new O-line coaches can coach him up to become a starter for us relatively soon. Saffold would be another option here as well. Basically, we can get a decent RT here to start for us. Maybe not the best in the draft, but good enough to not pass on Spiller and Graham in the first round. Competes with Pashos.

3. Nate Allen FS / Robert Johnson FS / Reshad Jones SS - Basically, with our extra third we take the best safety prospect available, whether it be SS or free safety, as Goldson has the ability to move to SS IMO. I would LOVE to get Nate Allen here, as I believe he could be the ballhawking FS we have been wanting for a long time.

4. Chris Cook CB - Depth here at corner, and looked really good during Senior Bowl practices this week. He is a tall corner as well, at almost 6'2 and 212 lbs. The 49ers were said to have shown an interest in him as well during Senior Bowl week.

5. Marcus Easly WR - OTC really likes this guy, and is close to 6'4 215 lbs and runs 4.4 forty. Could develop into the speed guy we need.

6. Jeff Byars OG - The niners have shown some interest this week at the Senior Bowl in this G from USC. Smaller G good within the zone blocking scheme, good depth on the line. Has looked pretty good this week.

7. Chris Martinelli RT - Depth at RT behind our 3rd round pick and competes with Snyder and Boone for backup at RT.

If there is an emergency at RT during the season, we can always move Staley over to RT if needed, as Sims played outstanding at LT last year in relief of Staley.

Depth chart:

QB: Smith, Davis, Hill
RB: Gore, Spiller, Coffee, Robinson, Norris
WR: Crabtree, Morgan, Jones, Hill, Easley
TE: Davis, Walker
OL: Staley, FA Guard, Heitmann, Asomoah, Fox/Calloway
Sims, Bass, Wallace, Rachal, Martinelli/Boone/Pashos, Wragge, Byars
DL: Soap, Franklin, Smith, Balmer, McDonald, Jean-Francois
LB: Graham, Willis, Spikes, Brooks
Haralson, McKillop, Lawson, Briggs
DB: Clements, Spencer, Brown, Bly, Cook, Allen/Jones, Goldson, Lewis, Smith, Taylor

KR/PR: Spiller, Hixon
LS: Jennings
P: Lee
K: Nedney

Thoughts?

Hey this is pretty decent. I kinda like the first round keep up the good work!
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Those who don't want to fix the OL properly.

One big problem: Davis, Bulaga and Williams are not worth a mid first round pick. You want to build a mediocre OL? We already have plenty of average offensive linemen who were taken higher than they deserved and taking Davis/Bulaga/Williams will yield the same results.

1.) Said who?
2.) Based on what?
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by nannite:
Originally posted by BirdmanJr:
Originally posted by bigwads:
Those who don't want to fix the OL properly.

One big problem: Davis, Bulaga and Williams are not worth a mid first round pick. You want to build a mediocre OL? We already have plenty of average offensive linemen who were taken higher than they deserved and taking Davis/Bulaga/Williams will yield the same results.

1.) Said who?
2.) Based on what?

Based on their talent level rather than the position they play.

These guys tend to vary quite a bit in the player rankings and I believe the reason they occasionaly get rated high is because they play an 'important position'. (A poor argument, as an All-Pro guard is worth 10 mediocre tackles).

What is really frustrating is that everyone is saying 'as long as we get an OT we will be ok' when that couldn't be farther from the truth. Statistically 2 of those 3 will spend their career as backups. It would seem prudent to simply draft a better player.