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Joe Haden

Originally posted by fortyninerglory:
With teams running more and more 3-4 receiver sets you can bet your momma that a nickel back can be considered a starter nowaday.
I agree with you, the third CB plays at least 50 percent of the game now. Also we have to play AZ twice a year with their big and fast WRs. We need to have THREE top flight CB's so that we can compete with them. Clements is still good, but is past his prime, Spencer will be good for awhile.
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
I'd be pissed if we picked Joe Haden, CB is far down the list of needs right now.

Clements, Spencer, Brown, and no, Harris is not dead.

We have good corners, I can't imagine why people think Haden will come in and perform some kind of miracle and shut everybody down.

Teams pass a lot on us because they can't run on us, also our defense has to defend MANY more plays (not necessarily time of possession) then average, so the statistics look like our secondary is getting destroyed, but its just not true.

Also, a LOT of yards come from short dump offs to the running backs and screens; how that can be blamed on a secondary is beyond me.

Until we improve our 3n'out offense no corner is going to make our passing statistics look good.

[ Edited by BrianGO on Jan 15, 2010 at 17:29:49 ]
Originally posted by dbdublin:
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
I'd be pissed if we picked Joe Haden, CB is far down the list of needs right now.

Huh? We finished 21st in pass YPG despite being tied for 3rd in sacks. And we're old, old at CB. I think CB is high on our list. I'd certainly expect to see one taken in the first 3 rounds. Haden is probably top 10 anyway and he won't be there.

A ton of those yards come from dump offs to the running back and screens, which is not the responsibility of the secondary.

Also, our offense was near the top of the league in 3n'outs, so our defense had to defend more pass attempts then most teams.

"Total passing yards", like many statistics, is incredibly misleading.

[ Edited by BrianGO on Jan 15, 2010 at 17:33:15 ]
There is no chance Joe Haden lasts until we pick so this thread is pointless. I would be thrilled if it happened but it wont.
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Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by dbdublin:
Originally posted by YourHuckleberry:
I'd be pissed if we picked Joe Haden, CB is far down the list of needs right now.

Huh? We finished 21st in pass YPG despite being tied for 3rd in sacks. And we're old, old at CB. I think CB is high on our list. I'd certainly expect to see one taken in the first 3 rounds. Haden is probably top 10 anyway and he won't be there.

A ton of those yards come from dump offs to the running back and screens, which is not the responsibility of the secondary.

Dump offs and screens and the inside seam to the TE killed us all year--another DB won't help us out there but a good safety will.
I must admit that I have not seen much of Joe Haden. But in the wake of his 4.57 40-time (slow for an elite CB), I thought I'd look him up.

From the youtube clip against LSU, he did not look like an elite CB:

- He was abused by Brandon LaFell on many plays
- on a play at 1:05, he just looks SLOW!
- at 2:26, check out his slow burst to get to the open receiver

I know that one game doesn't say much but what got me scared was just the fact that he DOES look slow. (although this clip was from 2008, I don't think that you can teach speed)

Here is the link to the clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI984aFuo28&feature=related

[ Edited by amigoj49 on Mar 2, 2010 at 16:51:29 ]
I've thought the little fellar was overrated this whole time. I'm just glad we don't need a CB early in this draft we would be making a big mistake if we drafted him, we should let him be somebody elses problem. Good thread.
thats last years tape bro he was lights out this year

[ Edited by 49ersalldaway126 on Mar 2, 2010 at 17:19:35 ]
Member Milestone: This is post number 800 for foreign49er.
Is that video from 2008? His second year ever playing the position. He's a much more polished CB now. He actually got better as that game went on too, made a couple of plays at the end. He's the best CB in the draft for a reason, don't get too excited about one game (that his team actually won).
Originally posted by foreign49er:
Is that video from 2008? His second year ever playing the position. He's a much more polished CB now. He actually got better as that game went on too, made a couple of plays at the end. He's the best CB in the draft for a reason, don't get too excited about one game (that his team actually won).

There are many draft prospects that are considered "best in college" that do not translate well in NFL. Hence, we have draft BUSTS. Our job in this forum is to raise any possible red flags so that we can be better informed.
Originally posted by amigoj49:
Originally posted by foreign49er:
Is that video from 2008? His second year ever playing the position. He's a much more polished CB now. He actually got better as that game went on too, made a couple of plays at the end. He's the best CB in the draft for a reason, don't get too excited about one game (that his team actually won).

There are many draft prospects that are considered "best in college" that do not translate well in NFL. Hence, we have draft BUSTS. Our job in this forum is to raise any possible red flags so that we can be better informed.

lol by looking at what he did two years ago while he was still learning the position? Watch some film from this year, he earned the tag of best Corner in the draft.
I don't understand why CB is a first-round need when Clements, Spencer, and Brown are pretty much #1, #2, and #3 respectively on the depth chart.

The fact that Arizona, Seattle, and St. Louis are becoming more run oriented is another indicator that we can certainly address the position in the 3rd or 4th round at the very least.
Originally posted by foreign49er:
Originally posted by amigoj49:
Originally posted by foreign49er:
Is that video from 2008? His second year ever playing the position. He's a much more polished CB now. He actually got better as that game went on too, made a couple of plays at the end. He's the best CB in the draft for a reason, don't get too excited about one game (that his team actually won).

There are many draft prospects that are considered "best in college" that do not translate well in NFL. Hence, we have draft BUSTS. Our job in this forum is to raise any possible red flags so that we can be better informed.

lol by looking at what he did two years ago while he was still learning the position? Watch some film from this year, he earned the tag of best Corner in the draft.

I am not saying that Haden doesn's have skills. And I understand that he was learning in 2008... But I guess from looking at the combine, he didn't learn to be "faster". SPEED is what I am worried about.
Originally posted by GEEK:
I don't understand why CB is a first-round need when Clements, Spencer, and Brown are pretty much #1, #2, and #3 respectively on the depth chart.

The fact that Arizona, Seattle, and St. Louis are becoming more run oriented is another indicator that we can certainly address the position in the 3rd or 4th round at the very least.

Our division sucks, period. You still need to contend with Green Bay, New Orleans, Indie, NE, Philly, Dallas, SD....etc