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Question for all the mays haters.

In your opinion what the worst he could realistically do in the NFL? In my opinion at worst he would be would still be an upgrade over Lewis and Roman at SS maybe not a Polomalu or a Wilson but still one of the top strong safeties in the league. I know, I know, you don't spend a top 15 pick on a SS that isn't a top fight guy but I also believe that he has the potential to be as good if not better as the aforementioned players as well with some good coaching.

Here is why. How many top NFL DBs has USC produced after Polomalu? (who only player for Carrol 1 or 2 years but wasn't recruited by him) None. Maybe Mays' lack of production is because of the system at USC and/or the DB coaches and not because he will never live up to the potential that his talent dictates.

Either way if we win out and our draft pick is in the mid to late first round and its between reaching for the 4th best OT or we already took one and Mays is still there. I say we take him. Even though most on the board have been scared away by raw talented players because of Balmer don't forget that VD was also a raw talented player as well.
who knows if we'll even take a saftey if Goldson keeps playing well. 2nd leading tackler on our team. I think we have more needs at other positions like CB and OL that we should take care of first.

How many more years we have lewis locked up?
The 49ers have the 26th ranked pass defense in the NFL. Do the 49ers upgrade their pass defense by drafting a safety who has below average ball skills? Below is a scouting report of Mays by Nolan Nawrocki of Pro Football Weekly:

Taylor Mays, USC
6-3, 236, 4.45e

Had Mays declared as a junior, he likely would have been a top-10 pick and the first safety drafted, given his rare physical skill set. After deciding to return for his senior season, his warts have been magnified while playing on a bad defense, appearing to preserve his body. He has made few plays down the field with his back to the ball, too often playing a man instead of the ball, despite being in position to intercept passes. He clearly possesses the range desired to play off the hash, but similar to Redskins S LaRon Landry, Mays' downfield ball skills are very suspect. Too many missed tackles have even created questions about whether Mays might be best as a linebacker in the box.
I was a huge Mays fan last year, but thought he took a step back this year. Not only didn't I see much production, but I actually saw him get punked a few times...I know he was hurt for a good part of the year, but I'm more skeptical about him than I was around this time last year.

I'd take him if he was around in the 2nd, but I wouldn't spend a 1st rounder on him.

[ Edited by GoFD74 on Dec 18, 2009 at 16:51:29 ]
Originally posted by 49ersfan80:
The 49ers have the 26th ranked pass defense in the NFL. Do the 49ers upgrade their pass defense by drafting a safety who has below average ball skills? Below is a scouting report of Mays by Nolan Nawrocki of Pro Football Weekly:

Taylor Mays, USC
6-3, 236, 4.45e

Had Mays declared as a junior, he likely would have been a top-10 pick and the first safety drafted, given his rare physical skill set. After deciding to return for his senior season, his warts have been magnified while playing on a bad defense, appearing to preserve his body. He has made few plays down the field with his back to the ball, too often playing a man instead of the ball, despite being in position to intercept passes. He clearly possesses the range desired to play off the hash, but similar to Redskins S LaRon Landry, Mays' downfield ball skills are very suspect. Too many missed tackles have even created questions about whether Mays might be best as a linebacker in the box.

That's my point. What makes someone have average ball skills? Do you believe it is all innate instincts or can coaching and experience help in that department? Mays' best year at USC he only had 3 INTs, yeah that doesn't scream ball hawk at me either. Polomalu's and Wilson's career high in 1 college season was also 3. We would all agree that they have gotten more efficient in pass coverage since then so why can't Mays?

BTW, Mays is bigger, heavier, and faster than Landry, so I don't think the comparisons are apples to apples and their talent upside is not even close. The only thing they have in common is they are both big hitters.
The worst case scenario?

Darnell Bing

He's got speed. He's got hitting power.

BUT...

He doesn't have ball skills. He can't wrap up and tackle.


Sounds like a high-priced gunner on special teams.
Originally posted by flynhayn15:
Originally posted by 49ersfan80:
The 49ers have the 26th ranked pass defense in the NFL. Do the 49ers upgrade their pass defense by drafting a safety who has below average ball skills? Below is a scouting report of Mays by Nolan Nawrocki of Pro Football Weekly:

Taylor Mays, USC
6-3, 236, 4.45e

Had Mays declared as a junior, he likely would have been a top-10 pick and the first safety drafted, given his rare physical skill set. After deciding to return for his senior season, his warts have been magnified while playing on a bad defense, appearing to preserve his body. He has made few plays down the field with his back to the ball, too often playing a man instead of the ball, despite being in position to intercept passes. He clearly possesses the range desired to play off the hash, but similar to Redskins S LaRon Landry, Mays' downfield ball skills are very suspect. Too many missed tackles have even created questions about whether Mays might be best as a linebacker in the box.

That's my point. What makes someone have average ball skills? Do you believe it is all innate instincts or can coaching and experience help in that department? Mays' best year at USC he only had 3 INTs, yeah that doesn't scream ball hawk at me either. Polomalu's and Wilson's career high in 1 college season was also 3. We would all agree that they have gotten more efficient in pass coverage since then so why can't Mays?

BTW, Mays is bigger, heavier, and faster than Landry, so I don't think the comparisons are apples to apples and their talent upside is not even close. The only thing they have in common is they are both big hitters.

To me, being a good football is 50% physical ability and 50% intelligence. You can say the same about all sports really. There's no doubt Mays scores a perfect score on the physical ability portion, but I think he is well below average in the intelligence portion. I've seen him get juked by far inferior opponents much too often. He takes bad angles, he tries to cover the wrong player at times. I've even seen some p***y ass attempts at tackling this year. It's as if he is afraid of getting hurt. How can you trust a player like that? Like GOFD says, I'll draft him in the 2nd or later because he is a project. But I'll use the 1st rounders on better players (and there are alot of them).
Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
The worst case scenario?

Darnell Bing


Stole what I was going to say.

Best case scenario is Roy Williams.
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by flynhayn15:
Originally posted by 49ersfan80:
The 49ers have the 26th ranked pass defense in the NFL. Do the 49ers upgrade their pass defense by drafting a safety who has below average ball skills? Below is a scouting report of Mays by Nolan Nawrocki of Pro Football Weekly:

Taylor Mays, USC
6-3, 236, 4.45e

Had Mays declared as a junior, he likely would have been a top-10 pick and the first safety drafted, given his rare physical skill set. After deciding to return for his senior season, his warts have been magnified while playing on a bad defense, appearing to preserve his body. He has made few plays down the field with his back to the ball, too often playing a man instead of the ball, despite being in position to intercept passes. He clearly possesses the range desired to play off the hash, but similar to Redskins S LaRon Landry, Mays' downfield ball skills are very suspect. Too many missed tackles have even created questions about whether Mays might be best as a linebacker in the box.

That's my point. What makes someone have average ball skills? Do you believe it is all innate instincts or can coaching and experience help in that department? Mays' best year at USC he only had 3 INTs, yeah that doesn't scream ball hawk at me either. Polomalu's and Wilson's career high in 1 college season was also 3. We would all agree that they have gotten more efficient in pass coverage since then so why can't Mays?

BTW, Mays is bigger, heavier, and faster than Landry, so I don't think the comparisons are apples to apples and their talent upside is not even close. The only thing they have in common is they are both big hitters.

To me, being a good football is 50% physical ability and 50% intelligence. You can say the same about all sports really. There's no doubt Mays scores a perfect score on the physical ability portion, but I think he is well below average in the intelligence portion. I've seen him get juked by far inferior opponents much too often. He takes bad angles, he tries to cover the wrong player at times. I've even seen some p***y ass attempts at tackling this year. It's as if he is afraid of getting hurt. How can you trust a player like that? Like GOFD says, I'll draft him in the 2nd or later because he is a project. But I'll use the 1st rounders on better players (and there are alot of them).

All of the things you listed are coachable problems. It seems like your mind is already made up I guess we will just have to see if he can overcome those problems or not in the future.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
The worst case scenario?

Darnell Bing


Stole what I was going to say.

Best case scenario is Roy Williams.

Oh...You want to play the game of throwing out names of Safety busts even if they have little to nothing in common with Mays? Can I play too? Ok....I'm gonna go with......Adam Archuleta!!!!! Your Turn.
Taylor Mays total interceptions in college = 5

Mark Roman total interceptions in college = 10

Michael Lewis total interceptions in college = 9

Upgrade in ball skills from Roman/Lewis to Mays = 0
Originally posted by flynhayn15:
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by flynhayn15:
Originally posted by 49ersfan80:
The 49ers have the 26th ranked pass defense in the NFL. Do the 49ers upgrade their pass defense by drafting a safety who has below average ball skills? Below is a scouting report of Mays by Nolan Nawrocki of Pro Football Weekly:

Taylor Mays, USC
6-3, 236, 4.45e

Had Mays declared as a junior, he likely would have been a top-10 pick and the first safety drafted, given his rare physical skill set. After deciding to return for his senior season, his warts have been magnified while playing on a bad defense, appearing to preserve his body. He has made few plays down the field with his back to the ball, too often playing a man instead of the ball, despite being in position to intercept passes. He clearly possesses the range desired to play off the hash, but similar to Redskins S LaRon Landry, Mays' downfield ball skills are very suspect. Too many missed tackles have even created questions about whether Mays might be best as a linebacker in the box.

That's my point. What makes someone have average ball skills? Do you believe it is all innate instincts or can coaching and experience help in that department? Mays' best year at USC he only had 3 INTs, yeah that doesn't scream ball hawk at me either. Polomalu's and Wilson's career high in 1 college season was also 3. We would all agree that they have gotten more efficient in pass coverage since then so why can't Mays?

BTW, Mays is bigger, heavier, and faster than Landry, so I don't think the comparisons are apples to apples and their talent upside is not even close. The only thing they have in common is they are both big hitters.

To me, being a good football is 50% physical ability and 50% intelligence. You can say the same about all sports really. There's no doubt Mays scores a perfect score on the physical ability portion, but I think he is well below average in the intelligence portion. I've seen him get juked by far inferior opponents much too often. He takes bad angles, he tries to cover the wrong player at times. I've even seen some p***y ass attempts at tackling this year. It's as if he is afraid of getting hurt. How can you trust a player like that? Like GOFD says, I'll draft him in the 2nd or later because he is a project. But I'll use the 1st rounders on better players (and there are alot of them).

All of the things you listed are coachable problems. It seems like your mind is already made up I guess we will just have to see if he can overcome those problems or not in the future.

Yes, these things can be coached up.. except for heart. The way he's been tackling this year, I question it. WOuld I take him with a 1st round (a project that needs alot of coaching up)? No. Would I take him in the 2nd or later? Yes.
Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:
The worst case scenario?

Darnell Bing


Exactly!
Originally posted by 49ersfan80:
Taylor Mays total interceptions in college = 5

Mark Roman total interceptions in college = 10

Michael Lewis total interceptions in college = 9

Upgrade in ball skills from Roman/Lewis to Mays = 0

By that logic you also wouldn't want these guys to play for the Niners based on college INTs:

Bob Sanders -7
Troy Polomalu -6
Brandon Meriweather -6
Chris Hope -6
Kerry Rhodes -5
OJ Atogwe -5
Quintin Mikell -5
Adrian Wilson -3
Michael Griffin -2

I would want them on the team and I would go out on a limb and say they would upgrade our secondaries ball skills as well. But you can stick with Roman if you would like to.
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