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Trading up for Okung

Originally posted by ninertico:
No way. Given the amount of quality OTs in the first for our RT needs, I'd say to trade up for Eric Berry instead.

I too also believe that Carolina's pick will be top ten even top 5 potentially. I really don't see them winning two games, at most one and that's next week against TB which might upset them leaving them with 0-5 to finish out the year with only FOUR wins...damn!!!

The Raiders, Chief and Redskins all have the ability to win one more making them even with the Panthers. There is so much time left that it is anyone's guess, but I really like our top 10 chances right now.

My scenario would be Berry or trade down if he's taken. Maybe pick up another second so we would have four picks in the top 64. If that is the case, I would want to do this:

1a: Williams
1b: Iupati
2a: Hughes
2b: J. Arenas

We get our OL fixed. We get a great pass rusher to add to the mix and we land a very dynamic RS in Arenas and give us depth in the secondary.

However, my choice right now would be to get Berry no matter what especially if we are so close in the top 10. He would be the one to jump for, IMO. He would immediately take M. Lewis' spot allowing he and Goldson to be an incredible tandem at the safety positions.

We certainly have some options though!


Who's gonna play corner? Nobody ever has an answer to that.

That's why I say move Clements to safety and (1) sign a corner in FA or (2) take a guy like Joe Haden with our 2nd 1st rounder..
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
No. The Niners need help in several postions and should not trade up to get Okung. It isnt like the guy is Orlando Pace and he wont even play LT.

I would actually like to see the Niners take one of their first round picks and move down to get an additional 2nd rd pick. 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders could get them an OT, OLB, OG, and CB/S.

This.... is a good idea.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
I'd stay put with those two 1st rounders and grab the best OT on the board, then go BPA with the second first rounder.

That's very dangerous. If the BPA isn't an OT, you're either forced to reach or go with another position and hope you'll get an OT with your next pick. Eventually, you run the risk that you never draft the tackle you need -- like last year. All the blue-chip OTs were off the board, and we went BPA. In the second round, Eben Britton went off the board a few picks before us. In the third round, Loadholt was already gone and Robert Brewster was too much of a reach. So, we end up with nothing.

It's not dangerous at all, especially when a guy like Okung isn't really as hot a prospect as you're making him out to be. IMO, what's dangerous is panicking and trading away prized 1st round picks and not being patient enough to wait for someone good to fall to you.

If we're picking in the lower half of the 1st round, I might agree with you...but with that Carolina pick, we're very likely to pick in the top 10-15, and there's a REALLY good chance that 1 or more excellent OTs will be available. Sure, it may not be the top OT in the draft (whoever that may be), but that designation alone doesn't guarantee success.

Hold your water, wait for someone good to fall to you and come away with two blue chippers in that 1st round (one an o-lineman, and the other BPA given the many holes we have on this team)...that's my take.
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
I'd stay put with those two 1st rounders and grab the best OT on the board, then go BPA with the second first rounder.

That's very dangerous. If the BPA isn't an OT, you're either forced to reach or go with another position and hope you'll get an OT with your next pick. Eventually, you run the risk that you never draft the tackle you need -- like last year. All the blue-chip OTs were off the board, and we went BPA. In the second round, Eben Britton went off the board a few picks before us. In the third round, Loadholt was already gone and Robert Brewster was too much of a reach. So, we end up with nothing.

It's not dangerous at all, especially when a guy like Okung isn't really as hot a prospect as you're making him out to be. IMO, what's dangerous is panicking and trading away prized 1st round picks and not being patient enough to wait for someone good to fall to you.

If we're picking in the lower half of the 1st round, I might agree with you...but with that Carolina pick, we're very likely to pick in the top 10-15, and there's a REALLY good chance that 1 or more excellent OTs will be available. Sure, it may not be the top OT in the draft (whoever that may be), but that designation alone doesn't guarantee success.

Hold your water, wait for someone good to fall to you and come away with two blue chippers in that 1st round (one an o-lineman, and the other BPA given the many holes we have on this team)...that's my take.

At the same time, teams have be inclined to keep their picks if the CBA doesn't get renewed in order to address their main needs with legit prospects.
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
I'd stay put with those two 1st rounders and grab the best OT on the board, then go BPA with the second first rounder.

That's very dangerous. If the BPA isn't an OT, you're either forced to reach or go with another position and hope you'll get an OT with your next pick. Eventually, you run the risk that you never draft the tackle you need -- like last year. All the blue-chip OTs were off the board, and we went BPA. In the second round, Eben Britton went off the board a few picks before us. In the third round, Loadholt was already gone and Robert Brewster was too much of a reach. So, we end up with nothing.

It's not dangerous at all, especially when a guy like Okung isn't really as hot a prospect as you're making him out to be. IMO, what's dangerous is panicking and trading away prized 1st round picks and not being patient enough to wait for someone good to fall to you.

If we're picking in the lower half of the 1st round, I might agree with you...but with that Carolina pick, we're very likely to pick in the top 10-15, and there's a REALLY good chance that 1 or more excellent OTs will be available. Sure, it may not be the top OT in the draft (whoever that may be), but that designation alone doesn't guarantee success.

Hold your water, wait for someone good to fall to you and come away with two blue chippers in that 1st round (one an o-lineman, and the other BPA given the many holes we have on this team)...that's my take.

At the same time, teams have be inclined to keep their picks if the CBA doesn't get renewed in order to address their main needs with legit prospects.

Not really -- if there's no CBA there won't even be a draft in 2012.
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
I'd stay put with those two 1st rounders and grab the best OT on the board, then go BPA with the second first rounder.

That's very dangerous. If the BPA isn't an OT, you're either forced to reach or go with another position and hope you'll get an OT with your next pick. Eventually, you run the risk that you never draft the tackle you need -- like last year. All the blue-chip OTs were off the board, and we went BPA. In the second round, Eben Britton went off the board a few picks before us. In the third round, Loadholt was already gone and Robert Brewster was too much of a reach. So, we end up with nothing.

It's not dangerous at all, especially when a guy like Okung isn't really as hot a prospect as you're making him out to be. IMO, what's dangerous is panicking and trading away prized 1st round picks and not being patient enough to wait for someone good to fall to you.

If we're picking in the lower half of the 1st round, I might agree with you...but with that Carolina pick, we're very likely to pick in the top 10-15, and there's a REALLY good chance that 1 or more excellent OTs will be available. Sure, it may not be the top OT in the draft (whoever that may be), but that designation alone doesn't guarantee success.

Hold your water, wait for someone good to fall to you and come away with two blue chippers in that 1st round (one an o-lineman, and the other BPA given the many holes we have on this team)...that's my take.

Ghost. I am not one of those guys that calls for trading down every year to get more picks. I always think it depends on who is available at the time. If Joe Haden is sitting for the Niners I would take him and pass on moving down. I think he is that good. However, I do not think there is an elite OT out there and assume that Okung will be gone. If Haden, Berry, and Okung are gone I would pull the trigger and move down for extra picks. This year it makes sense given the depth of the draft, the lack of elite players at the top, and the needs of our team.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
I'd stay put with those two 1st rounders and grab the best OT on the board, then go BPA with the second first rounder.

That's very dangerous. If the BPA isn't an OT, you're either forced to reach or go with another position and hope you'll get an OT with your next pick. Eventually, you run the risk that you never draft the tackle you need -- like last year. All the blue-chip OTs were off the board, and we went BPA. In the second round, Eben Britton went off the board a few picks before us. In the third round, Loadholt was already gone and Robert Brewster was too much of a reach. So, we end up with nothing.

It's not dangerous at all, especially when a guy like Okung isn't really as hot a prospect as you're making him out to be. IMO, what's dangerous is panicking and trading away prized 1st round picks and not being patient enough to wait for someone good to fall to you.

If we're picking in the lower half of the 1st round, I might agree with you...but with that Carolina pick, we're very likely to pick in the top 10-15, and there's a REALLY good chance that 1 or more excellent OTs will be available. Sure, it may not be the top OT in the draft (whoever that may be), but that designation alone doesn't guarantee success.

Hold your water, wait for someone good to fall to you and come away with two blue chippers in that 1st round (one an o-lineman, and the other BPA given the many holes we have on this team)...that's my take.

Ghost. I am not one of those guys that calls for trading down every year to get more picks. I always think it depends on who is available at the time. If Joe Haden is sitting for the Niners I would take him and pass on moving down. I think he is that good. However, I do not think there is an elite OT out there and assume that Okung will be gone. If Haden, Berry, and Okung are gone I would pull the trigger and move down for extra picks. This year it makes sense given the depth of the draft, the lack of elite players at the top, and the needs of our team.

I'm not opposed to moving down if you can get the right deal, especially in this draft (though getting two 1st rounders is really appealing)...it's moving up that I'm really opposed to.
[ Edited by GoFD74 on Nov 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM ]
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
I'd stay put with those two 1st rounders and grab the best OT on the board, then go BPA with the second first rounder.

That's very dangerous. If the BPA isn't an OT, you're either forced to reach or go with another position and hope you'll get an OT with your next pick. Eventually, you run the risk that you never draft the tackle you need -- like last year. All the blue-chip OTs were off the board, and we went BPA. In the second round, Eben Britton went off the board a few picks before us. In the third round, Loadholt was already gone and Robert Brewster was too much of a reach. So, we end up with nothing.

It's not dangerous at all, especially when a guy like Okung isn't really as hot a prospect as you're making him out to be. IMO, what's dangerous is panicking and trading away prized 1st round picks and not being patient enough to wait for someone good to fall to you.

If we're picking in the lower half of the 1st round, I might agree with you...but with that Carolina pick, we're very likely to pick in the top 10-15, and there's a REALLY good chance that 1 or more excellent OTs will be available. Sure, it may not be the top OT in the draft (whoever that may be), but that designation alone doesn't guarantee success.

Hold your water, wait for someone good to fall to you and come away with two blue chippers in that 1st round (one an o-lineman, and the other BPA given the many holes we have on this team)...that's my take.

Ghost. I am not one of those guys that calls for trading down every year to get more picks. I always think it depends on who is available at the time. If Joe Haden is sitting for the Niners I would take him and pass on moving down. I think he is that good. However, I do not think there is an elite OT out there and assume that Okung will be gone. If Haden, Berry, and Okung are gone I would pull the trigger and move down for extra picks. This year it makes sense given the depth of the draft, the lack of elite players at the top, and the needs of our team.

I'm not opposed to moving down if you can get the right deal, especially in this draft (though getting two 1st rounders is really appealing)...it's moving up that I'm really opposed to.

Gotcha. I agree fully. I would not use up our picks to move up in the draft at all. Berry is the only player that would be tempting I suppose but that would be too costly in my opinion.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by GoFD74:
I'd stay put with those two 1st rounders and grab the best OT on the board, then go BPA with the second first rounder.

That's very dangerous. If the BPA isn't an OT, you're either forced to reach or go with another position and hope you'll get an OT with your next pick. Eventually, you run the risk that you never draft the tackle you need -- like last year. All the blue-chip OTs were off the board, and we went BPA. In the second round, Eben Britton went off the board a few picks before us. In the third round, Loadholt was already gone and Robert Brewster was too much of a reach. So, we end up with nothing.

It's not dangerous at all, especially when a guy like Okung isn't really as hot a prospect as you're making him out to be. IMO, what's dangerous is panicking and trading away prized 1st round picks and not being patient enough to wait for someone good to fall to you.

If we're picking in the lower half of the 1st round, I might agree with you...but with that Carolina pick, we're very likely to pick in the top 10-15, and there's a REALLY good chance that 1 or more excellent OTs will be available. Sure, it may not be the top OT in the draft (whoever that may be), but that designation alone doesn't guarantee success.

Hold your water, wait for someone good to fall to you and come away with two blue chippers in that 1st round (one an o-lineman, and the other BPA given the many holes we have on this team)...that's my take.

Ghost. I am not one of those guys that calls for trading down every year to get more picks. I always think it depends on who is available at the time. If Joe Haden is sitting for the Niners I would take him and pass on moving down. I think he is that good. However, I do not think there is an elite OT out there and assume that Okung will be gone. If Haden, Berry, and Okung are gone I would pull the trigger and move down for extra picks. This year it makes sense given the depth of the draft, the lack of elite players at the top, and the needs of our team.

I'm not opposed to moving down if you can get the right deal, especially in this draft (though getting two 1st rounders is really appealing)...it's moving up that I'm really opposed to.

Gotcha. I agree fully. I would not use up our picks to move up in the draft at all. Berry is the only player that would be tempting I suppose but that would be too costly in my opinion.

As much as I love Berry, I agree that it's just not worth the price we'd likely have to pay to move up. I'd rather grab two 1st round studs, say:

~Trent Williams and Joe Haden in the 1st
~best OLB/pass rusher available in the 2nd
~speedy WR kick/punt returner in the 3rd
~DT or OL depth in the 4th
~ILB depth 5th
~backup QB in the 6th
~whatever

Use free agency to sign best FS or SS available (Nick Collins, Antoine Bethea, Atari Bigby or even Roman Harper).
Originally posted by nickbradley:
With Carolina's remaining schedule, I expect them to end up with 5 or 6 wins and picking between 6 - 9 in the draft. With that said, would you trade up from that spot to snag Okung at #4 or #5 if he's there? According to the draft value chart, a move like that (from #8 to #5) is worth a 4th rounder.

I would not do it for Okung, but I would do that for Berry. Then draft the best available OT with 1b and OG or OLB in rounds 2 & 3.
Member Milestone: This is post number 1,800 for PRIMETIME21.
i got a good feeling eric berry is going to drop to us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr2MOiEnnF8
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Originally posted by LottOfDefense:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
With Carolina's remaining schedule, I expect them to end up with 5 or 6 wins and picking between 6 - 9 in the draft. With that said, would you trade up from that spot to snag Okung at #4 or #5 if he's there? According to the draft value chart, a move like that (from #8 to #5) is worth a 4th rounder.

I would not do it for Okung, but I would do that for Berry. Then draft the best available OT with 1b and OG or OLB in rounds 2 & 3.

If Earl Thomas declares he'll likely be available at our picks and is just as good a playmaker as Berry. I would still prefer we address Oline and pass rush regardless.
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by ninertico:
No way. Given the amount of quality OTs in the first for our RT needs, I'd say to trade up for Eric Berry instead.

I too also believe that Carolina's pick will be top ten even top 5 potentially. I really don't see them winning two games, at most one and that's next week against TB which might upset them leaving them with 0-5 to finish out the year with only FOUR wins...damn!!!

The Raiders, Chief and Redskins all have the ability to win one more making them even with the Panthers. There is so much time left that it is anyone's guess, but I really like our top 10 chances right now.

My scenario would be Berry or trade down if he's taken. Maybe pick up another second so we would have four picks in the top 64. If that is the case, I would want to do this:

1a: Williams
1b: Iupati
2a: Hughes
2b: J. Arenas

We get our OL fixed. We get a great pass rusher to add to the mix and we land a very dynamic RS in Arenas and give us depth in the secondary.

However, my choice right now would be to get Berry no matter what especially if we are so close in the top 10. He would be the one to jump for, IMO. He would immediately take M. Lewis' spot allowing he and Goldson to be an incredible tandem at the safety positions.

We certainly have some options though!


Who's gonna play corner? Nobody ever has an answer to that.

That's why I say move Clements to safety and (1) sign a corner in FA or (2) take a guy like Joe Haden with our 2nd 1st rounder..

I like Haden too. Not sure if I like Iupati or Haden more.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
No. The Niners need help in several postions and should not trade up to get Okung. It isnt like the guy is Orlando Pace and he wont even play LT.

I would actually like to see the Niners take one of their first round picks and move down to get an additional 2nd rd pick. 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders could get them an OT, OLB, OG, and CB/S.

Would be great if we could trade back & get some extra picks.
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by nickbradley:
Originally posted by ninertico:
No way. Given the amount of quality OTs in the first for our RT needs, I'd say to trade up for Eric Berry instead.

I too also believe that Carolina's pick will be top ten even top 5 potentially. I really don't see them winning two games, at most one and that's next week against TB which might upset them leaving them with 0-5 to finish out the year with only FOUR wins...damn!!!

The Raiders, Chief and Redskins all have the ability to win one more making them even with the Panthers. There is so much time left that it is anyone's guess, but I really like our top 10 chances right now.

My scenario would be Berry or trade down if he's taken. Maybe pick up another second so we would have four picks in the top 64. If that is the case, I would want to do this:

1a: Williams
1b: Iupati
2a: Hughes
2b: J. Arenas

We get our OL fixed. We get a great pass rusher to add to the mix and we land a very dynamic RS in Arenas and give us depth in the secondary.

However, my choice right now would be to get Berry no matter what especially if we are so close in the top 10. He would be the one to jump for, IMO. He would immediately take M. Lewis' spot allowing he and Goldson to be an incredible tandem at the safety positions.

We certainly have some options though!


Who's gonna play corner? Nobody ever has an answer to that.

That's why I say move Clements to safety and (1) sign a corner in FA or (2) take a guy like Joe Haden with our 2nd 1st rounder..

I like Haden too. Not sure if I like Iupati or Haden more.

personally i would be happy with either