2016-2017 NBA FINALS: Cavs v. Warriors

Originally posted by LayTheWoodall:
2000/01 Lakers vs this warrior team? That middle team of the 3peat was the best. I think that would be a fun match up.

Teams back then had success with the PnR vs the Lakers. Styles have changed a lot in 16 years as well.

I still think Shaq in his prime is the toughest matchup.

Hack a Shaq ... use up all your centers 12 fouls. Shaq could not hit a FT to save his life. Never understood why he ever got a shot up around the hoop.

Originally posted by Joecool:

I thought it was Boston that started the superteam with Pierce, Garnett, and Allen.

They did. People forget that because their run wasn't nearly as impressive or sustained. I don't think CLE is a super team. I mean, they are certainly a great championship caliber team but super? Only when LeBron plays. Without him they are 4-23 since his return. GS can win without Curry, hell they are undefeated in the playoffs in the big bad West without Durant. THAT is a super team. CLE sucks without LeBron. They aren't even competitive when he is not playing. They have a great 1,2,3 punch and some names that look super but again, look no further than the games without LeBron. CLE is atrocious. Love never led his team to the playoffs. Kyrie never led his team out of the top of the lottery in the "weak East". When LeBron plays, they are a championship caliber team but GS can win tough games with or without Curry and with or without Durant...IN THE PLAYOFFS! That is a super team

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

They did. People forget that because their run wasn't nearly as impressive or sustained. I don't think CLE is a super team. I mean, they are certainly a great championship caliber team but super? Only when LeBron plays. Without him they are 4-23 since his return. GS can win without Curry, hell they are undefeated in the playoffs in the big bad West without Durant. THAT is a super team. CLE sucks without LeBron. They aren't even competitive when he is not playing. They have a great 1,2,3 punch and some names that look super but again, look no further than the games without LeBron. CLE is atrocious. Love never led his team to the playoffs. Kyrie never led his team out of the top of the lottery in the "weak East". When LeBron plays, they are a championship caliber team but GS can win tough games with or without Curry and with or without Durant...IN THE PLAYOFFS! That is a super team

Then CLE/LeBron must have seriously mismanaged their money because a team with the highest payroll in the NBA should be better than 'atrocious' without LeBron.

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I thought it was Boston that started the superteam with Pierce, Garnett, and Allen.

They did. People forget that because their run wasn't nearly as impressive or sustained. I don't think CLE is a super team. I mean, they are certainly a great championship caliber team but super? Only when LeBron plays. Without him they are 4-23 since his return. GS can win without Curry, hell they are undefeated in the playoffs in the big bad West without Durant. THAT is a super team. CLE sucks without LeBron. They aren't even competitive when he is not playing. They have a great 1,2,3 punch and some names that look super but again, look no further than the games without LeBron. CLE is atrocious. Love never led his team to the playoffs. Kyrie never led his team out of the top of the lottery in the "weak East". When LeBron plays, they are a championship caliber team but GS can win tough games with or without Curry and with or without Durant...IN THE PLAYOFFS! That is a super team

GS a super team ? when the majority of the starting 5 was drafted ?

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:
They did. People forget that because their run wasn't nearly as impressive or sustained. I don't think CLE is a super team. I mean, they are certainly a great championship caliber team but super? Only when LeBron plays. Without him they are 4-23 since his return. GS can win without Curry, hell they are undefeated in the playoffs in the big bad West without Durant. THAT is a super team. CLE sucks without LeBron. They aren't even competitive when he is not playing. They have a great 1,2,3 punch and some names that look super but again, look no further than the games without LeBron. CLE is atrocious. Love never led his team to the playoffs. Kyrie never led his team out of the top of the lottery in the "weak East". When LeBron plays, they are a championship caliber team but GS can win tough games with or without Curry and with or without Durant...IN THE PLAYOFFS! That is a super team

Then CLE/LeBron must have seriously mismanaged their money because a team with the highest payroll in the NBA should be better than 'atrocious' without LeBron.

that team and coached were hand picked by lebron. the quality of what players he can get is a reflection of him (can't recruit anyone)

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:
Then CLE/LeBron must have seriously mismanaged their money because a team with the highest payroll in the NBA should be better than 'atrocious' without LeBron.

They should absolutely be better than atrocious with LeBron but their 4-23 record without him playing says they aren't, even with their highest payroll. Again, they have a great team and are obviously championship caliber but that is only as long as LeBron is on the floor. That's why I wouldn't say they are Super because none of their 2nd or 3rd options, although very good players, did anything for their team when they were "the man". Love nor Kyrie led their teams anywhere other than the lottery year in and year out as "the man" of their team. KD led his team to the Finals before. Curry led his team to the Finals before. GS has shown they can win key games without Curry and have shown they can win key games without KD. To be able to win key games without your leader tells me you are a Super team. CLE can't and hasn't in 3 years. That isn't a knock on CLE and definitely not a knock on GS. I think GS has done a remarkable job of building their team full of playmakers. CLE opted to build their team full of specialists (TT is a rebounder/screen setter; JR Smith is a 3 point specialist on offense; Korver 3 point specialist on offense; Frye a 3 point specialist on offense; Shumper a defensive specialists). They have 3 guys that can make plays for themselves off the dribble or someone else consistently and that is LeBron, Kyrie and DWill. They are still a phenomenal basketball team at the end of the day, but they are only "super" because of LeBron.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
GS a super team ? when the majority of the starting 5 was drafted ?

That doesn't make them not a super team. They added KD, Zaza, West, Iggy, McGee and Livingston via trade or FA. That is 6 of their 9 key players came from elsewhere. They have done a great job of building their team over the years. People get all defensive over the term "super". It's not a knock on GS, it's a compliment to them that they have built that team so well that they can win playoff games without their #1 option and win playoff games without their #2 option and they can have a bench player win Finals MVP over their 3 home grown stars...that's phenomenal and shows they are a super team. Cavs can barely win a regular season game without their #1 option, they would stand no chance winning a playoff game without him. GS is undefeated in the playoffs this year without Durant...undefeated in the big bad West without their #1 option...

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
GS a super team ? when the majority of the starting 5 was drafted ?

That doesn't make them not a super team. They added KD, Zaza, West, Iggy, McGee and Livingston via trade or FA. That is 6 of their 9 key players came from elsewhere. They have done a great job of building their team over the years. People get all defensive over the term "super". It's not a knock on GS, it's a compliment to them that they have built that team so well that they can win playoff games without their #1 option and win playoff games without their #2 option and they can have a bench player win Finals MVP over their 3 home grown stars...that's phenomenal and shows they are a super team. Cavs can barely win a regular season game without their #1 option, they would stand no chance winning a playoff game without him. GS is undefeated in the playoffs this year without Durant...undefeated in the big bad West without their #1 option...

Super teams are Star Players that weren't drafted by the originally (Dream Teams) IMO

Zaza, west and Mgee weren't there until this year and they weren't really great high priority FA's that everyone wanted

Iggy , Livingston joined the team before this successful run. I didn't here about no super team talk in 14-15

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Super teams are Star Players that weren't drafted by the originally (Dream Teams) IMO

Zaza, west and Mgee weren't there until this year and they weren't really great high priority FA's that everyone wanted

Iggy , Livingston joined the team before this successful run. I didn't here about no super team talk in 14-15

They weren't a super team in 14-15. They are a super team in 16-17...again, they have done a phenomenal job of building their team to get to this point but they are now a super team. They are winning playoff games without their #1 option. They are undefeated in the playoffs without their #1 option and their #1 option was a FA and former MVP that has already led another franchise to the NBA Finals. They are a super team now

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Then CLE/LeBron must have seriously mismanaged their money because a team with the highest payroll in the NBA should be better than 'atrocious' without LeBron.

They should absolutely be better than atrocious with LeBron but their 4-23 record without him playing says they aren't, even with their highest payroll. Again, they have a great team and are obviously championship caliber but that is only as long as LeBron is on the floor. That's why I wouldn't say they are Super because none of their 2nd or 3rd options, although very good players, did anything for their team when they were "the man". Love nor Kyrie led their teams anywhere other than the lottery year in and year out as "the man" of their team. KD led his team to the Finals before. Curry led his team to the Finals before. GS has shown they can win key games without Curry and have shown they can win key games without KD. To be able to win key games without your leader tells me you are a Super team. CLE can't and hasn't in 3 years. That isn't a knock on CLE and definitely not a knock on GS. I think GS has done a remarkable job of building their team full of playmakers. CLE opted to build their team full of specialists (TT is a rebounder/screen setter; JR Smith is a 3 point specialist on offense; Korver 3 point specialist on offense; Frye a 3 point specialist on offense; Shumper a defensive specialists). They have 3 guys that can make plays for themselves off the dribble or someone else consistently and that is LeBron, Kyrie and DWill. They are still a phenomenal basketball team at the end of the day, but they are only "super" because of LeBron.

Lol. So in the end you're agreeing with me that Cleveland is a super team.

Originally posted by Stud:
Lol. So in the end you're agreeing with me that Cleveland is a super team.

That's why I put it in quotes. I wouldn't say they are a super team. They look that way only because of LeBron. I know they can't do a damn thing without him and their record shows that. Love and Kyrie by name gives the impression that they are this super team but they aren't. They are only relevant because of LeBron

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Stud:
Lol. So in the end you're agreeing with me that Cleveland is a super team.

That's why I put it in quotes. I wouldn't say they are a super team. They look that way only because of LeBron. I know they can't do a damn thing without him and their record shows that. Love and Kyrie by name gives the impression that they are this super team but they aren't. They are only relevant because of LeBron

making it to the finals 3 times in a row. LBJ can't do it by himself

that looks like a super team to me

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Sims19849ers:

Originally posted by Stud:
Lol. So in the end you're agreeing with me that Cleveland is a super team.

That's why I put it in quotes. I wouldn't say they are a super team. They look that way only because of LeBron. I know they can't do a damn thing without him and their record shows that. Love and Kyrie by name gives the impression that they are this super team but they aren't. They are only relevant because of LeBron

making it to the finals 3 times in a row. LBJ can't do it by himself

He going to need to score more than 30 to make this series competitive....unfortunatly he's never been that kind of prolific scorer like MJ or Kobe.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

I could see Chicago beating the Dubs simply because of Michael and Scottie. It would be a close series. As for Boston, I dont see that team winning.

Sims you keep repeating the narrative ad nauseam that the Cavs are 4-23 without LeBron. It is SUCH a disingenuous statistic, but please keep running with it to make yourself feel better. The Cavs lost 23 games without Bron. But guess what? 9 of those games had no Kyrie also. Guess what else? 7 of those games had no Kevin Love also.

But please, continue with the silly narrative that the Cavs are 4-23 without Bron. It makes your argument much stronger!!