***LeBRON JAMES - The KING of G.O.A.T.S Thread***

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Zachary:
Okay Lebron should've signed for the minimum with Steph and Durant on the warriors. Get 10 rings so he would be the goat right

because those rings affect him as a player lol

If rings werent important to him he wouldnt have gone to Miami to join Wade and Bosh to form the 1st "super team". Of course rings are important but they dont by themselves determine the GOAT.

MJ had average centers and guards in his title years with Chicago and really only had one superstar player in Scottie when he won 6 titles out of the 6 years he played from 91-98. Jordan was just the type that wasnt going to let him team lose.

To me its not really that close. Just like its not that close between Lebron and Kareem who I put 3rd. But thats just my opinion

Today I learned that Maimi was the first super team. Lol....

The first "super team" that one player orchestrated so that he could play with 2 other superstars and win a ring. Is that better for you? Obviously there were teams like the 60s Celtics or Magic/Kareem Lakers that were super but they were made through the draft and trades. Not through a single player looking to get his ring and dominate the league.

Still not better.

You can ignore Rodman joining the Bulls, but I won't. No team came close to matching the Bulls talent after that. 3 HOF players in their prime on the same team? And arguably the goat coach? That was a super team.

Then the Lakers tried to do it, with Malone and Gary, obviously both players were past their prime, especially Gary, but Karl was still good. And there are a thousand articles out there calling that team a super team at the time if you believe otherwise.

Then the most obvious one, Celtics getting Garnett and Allen. And Lakers trying it again as well with Howard and Nash.

You can try and nit pick it all you want by saying that was done through trade or whatever, but they built super teams, some failed some succeeded. Sorry but Bron wasn't the first to do it.

LOL at Lakers with those old farts WAY beyond their prime. But whatever.... As for the Bulls, well MJ had already won 3 rings without Rodman. He didnt him to win a ring. Chicago was going to be a great team with or without DR

These "super teams" as you call them were not done by one player pulling all the strings to get a ring like Lebron did in Miami. Huge difference.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Zachary:
Okay Lebron should've signed for the minimum with Steph and Durant on the warriors. Get 10 rings so he would be the goat right

because those rings affect him as a player lol

If rings werent important to him he wouldnt have gone to Miami to join Wade and Bosh to form the 1st "super team". Of course rings are important but they dont by themselves determine the GOAT.

MJ had average centers and guards in his title years with Chicago and really only had one superstar player in Scottie when he won 6 titles out of the 6 years he played from 91-98. Jordan was just the type that wasnt going to let him team lose.

To me its not really that close. Just like its not that close between Lebron and Kareem who I put 3rd. But thats just my opinion

Today I learned that Maimi was the first super team. Lol....

The first "super team" that one player orchestrated so that he could play with 2 other superstars and win a ring. Is that better for you? Obviously there were teams like the 60s Celtics or Magic/Kareem Lakers that were super but they were made through the draft and trades. Not through a single player looking to get his ring and dominate the league.

Still not better.

You can ignore Rodman joining the Bulls, but I won't. No team came close to matching the Bulls talent after that. 3 HOF players in their prime on the same team? And arguably the goat coach? That was a super team.

Then the Lakers tried to do it, with Malone and Gary, obviously both players were past their prime, especially Gary, but Karl was still good. And there are a thousand articles out there calling that team a super team at the time if you believe otherwise.

Then the most obvious one, Celtics getting Garnett and Allen. And Lakers trying it again as well with Howard and Nash.

You can try and nit pick it all you want by saying that was done through trade or whatever, but they built super teams, some failed some succeeded. Sorry but Bron wasn't the first to do it.

LOL at Lakers with those old farts WAY beyond their prime. But whatever.... As for the Bulls, well MJ had already won 3 rings without Rodman. He didnt him to win a ring. Chicago was going to be a great team with or without DR

These "super teams" as you call them were not done by one player pulling all the strings to get a ring like Lebron did in Miami. Huge difference.

What do you mean one player lol? Did Bron put a gun to Wade and Bosh's head and force them to put a team together. Did Pierce do the same to Allen and KG?

Bron did his best in Cleveland, and there's no much further that team could go. He tried every year there to get some player to come help him, just one guy lol. And nobody wanted to go play there which is very understandable.

If anything players like Durant should get a lot more hate for leaving an actual good team, where he had another all star teammate, only to join an already great team. At least guys like Bron/Wade/Bosh or Pierce/Allen/KG won their rings together and didn't join after the team already won rings.

Durant is a much bigger p***y, b***h about that lol, but since helped you guys get a ring you won't

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
What do you mean one player lol? Did Bron put a gun to Wade and Bosh's head and force them to put a team together. Did Pierce do the same to Allen and KG?

Bron did his best in Cleveland, and there's no much further that team could go. He tried every year there to get some player to come help him, just one guy lol. And nobody wanted to go play there which is very understandable.

If anything players like Durant should get a lot more hate for leaving an actual good team, where he had another all star teammate, only to join an already great team. At least guys like Bron/Wade/Bosh or Pierce/Allen/KG won their rings together and didn't join after the team already won rings.

Durant is a much bigger p***y, b***h about that lol, but since helped you guys get a ring you won't

Durant got mercilessly clowned to the point where he left said team.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Still not better.

You can ignore Rodman joining the Bulls, but I won't. No team came close to matching the Bulls talent after that. 3 HOF players in their prime on the same team? And arguably the goat coach? That was a super team.

Then the Lakers tried to do it, with Malone and Gary, obviously both players were past their prime, especially Gary, but Karl was still good. And there are a thousand articles out there calling that team a super team at the time if you believe otherwise.

Then the most obvious one, Celtics getting Garnett and Allen. And Lakers trying it again as well with Howard and Nash.

You can try and nit pick it all you want by saying that was done through trade or whatever, but they built super teams, some failed some succeeded. Sorry but Bron wasn't the first to do it.

Garnett agreed to join Celtics only if they will go after Allen. He spoke to Ray before saying yes to Celtics.

Bulls 2nd 3peat team was def. a superteam. Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Harper, Kukoc. Not average centers and guards.

Best duos that team beat was Penny and Shaq, Kemp and Payton, and Malone and Stockton. I would be hesitant to call Penny or Kemp or Stockton (especially in 97 and 98) superstars. Maybe one can argue for Penny but they beat Jordan before Bulls added another top 75 player and the best defender in the league (after Pippen and Hakeem). Without Rodman - there is no chance Bulls beat Shaq the next year either. I don't know if they def. beat Malone and the Jazz without Rodman.

Bulls had 3 top 75 players beating up on teams with 1 or 2 top 75 players (even if you call way past prime Stockton still a top 75 player). In short - in Bulls 2nd 3 peat - they didn't beat a single team with 2 HOF players in or near their primes. They had 3 + Tony Kukoc + Ron Harper.

Opposition matters.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Durant got mercilessly clowned to the point where he left said team.

That's not why he left.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Zachary:
Okay Lebron should've signed for the minimum with Steph and Durant on the warriors. Get 10 rings so he would be the goat right

because those rings affect him as a player lol

LeBron has done everything he could to win as many rings as easily as possible. Obviously he's not going to do at the expense of $ but he's tried to create 3 super teams now. Just couldn't ever pull off three peats like Jordan did but he's had to do deal with stronger competition and his teammate injuries.

And whether it's fair or not rings are how we rank great players. What's the difference between Brady and Rodgers?

I think Brady is a better quarterback than Rodgers

its like when people were saying "Montana never lost a super bowl" when discussing brady years ago. Okay. But who went to more, if that's the discussion lol. But I thought even before Brady had more, that he was better than Montana and Rodgers.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by 49er-from-Yavin-IV:
Who is the better RB Emmitt Smith or Barry Sanders? It might be relevant to the discussion.

Not at all

This.

Current and previous CBAs played a big part in player movement. Contracts were shorter and players could sign bigger contracts as FA even if they were re-sign with their own team. That was not the case before. The owners empowered the players (unknowingly) and players took advantage of that.

Superstar players who didn't have a good team around them demanded trade or better teammates back then too. I don't think there is anything admirable about Lillard staying in Portland - where he knows there is no pressure of winning - he can just keep signing supermax deals and put up 25 a game without ever having an expectation of winning a title.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Zachary:
Okay Lebron should've signed for the minimum with Steph and Durant on the warriors. Get 10 rings so he would be the goat right

because those rings affect him as a player lol

If rings werent important to him he wouldnt have gone to Miami to join Wade and Bosh to form the 1st "super team". Of course rings are important but they dont by themselves determine the GOAT.

MJ had average centers and guards in his title years with Chicago and really only had one superstar player in Scottie when he won 6 titles out of the 6 years he played from 91-98. Jordan was just the type that wasnt going to let him team lose.

To me its not really that close. Just like its not that close between Lebron and Kareem who I put 3rd. But thats just my opinion

Today I learned that Maimi was the first super team. Lol....

The first "super team" that one player orchestrated so that he could play with 2 other superstars and win a ring. Is that better for you? Obviously there were teams like the 60s Celtics or Magic/Kareem Lakers that were super but they were made through the draft and trades. Not through a single player looking to get his ring and dominate the league.

Still not better.

You can ignore Rodman joining the Bulls, but I won't. No team came close to matching the Bulls talent after that. 3 HOF players in their prime on the same team? And arguably the goat coach? That was a super team.

Then the Lakers tried to do it, with Malone and Gary, obviously both players were past their prime, especially Gary, but Karl was still good. And there are a thousand articles out there calling that team a super team at the time if you believe otherwise.

Then the most obvious one, Celtics getting Garnett and Allen. And Lakers trying it again as well with Howard and Nash.

You can try and nit pick it all you want by saying that was done through trade or whatever, but they built super teams, some failed some succeeded. Sorry but Bron wasn't the first to do it.

LOL at Lakers with those old farts WAY beyond their prime. But whatever.... As for the Bulls, well MJ had already won 3 rings without Rodman. He didnt him to win a ring. Chicago was going to be a great team with or without DR

These "super teams" as you call them were not done by one player pulling all the strings to get a ring like Lebron did in Miami. Huge difference.

What do you mean one player lol? Did Bron put a gun to Wade and Bosh's head and force them to put a team together. Did Pierce do the same to Allen and KG?

Bron did his best in Cleveland, and there's no much further that team could go. He tried every year there to get some player to come help him, just one guy lol. And nobody wanted to go play there which is very understandable.

If anything players like Durant should get a lot more hate for leaving an actual good team, where he had another all star teammate, only to join an already great team. At least guys like Bron/Wade/Bosh or Pierce/Allen/KG won their rings together and didn't join after the team already won rings.

Durant is a much bigger p***y, b***h about that lol, but since helped you guys get a ring you won't

KD didnt orchestrate forming a super team like Lebron did. The Warriors were that already anyway. Without LBJ whining and Dray getting suspended the team was pretty much a lock for back to back titles and had just set the record for the greatest record ever. I wont disagree about KD. Strange dude and all about himself anyway. I think the Dubs would have won titles again without him. But that is something we will never know.

But KD really isnt the topic in here anyway. A poster made the point that LBJ could have chased rings and then considered the GOAT. When in reality he did chase rings and orchestrated the formation of a super team through free agency.

Listen, no one is ever going to change anyone's mind about the GOAT. 4ML worships the ground that Lebron walks on and will always believe that he is the GOAT. Most people who watched MJ disagree, and like me, will probably never change our minds. It is what it is.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
KD didnt orchestrate forming a super team like Lebron did. The Warriors were that already anyway. Without LBJ whining and Dray getting suspended the team was pretty much a lock for back to back titles and had just set the record for the greatest record ever. I wont disagree about KD. Strange dude and all about himself anyway. I think the Dubs would have won titles again without him. But that is something we will never know.

But KD really isnt the topic in here anyway. A poster made the point that LBJ could have chased rings and then considered the GOAT. When in reality he did chase rings and orchestrated the formation of a super team through free agency.

Listen, no one is ever going to change anyone's mind about the GOAT. 4ML worships the ground that Lebron walks on and will always believe that he is the GOAT. Most people who watched MJ disagree, and like me, will probably never change our minds. It is what it is.

Yea, Draymond's history of kicking people in the nuts had nothing to do with his suspension. He got suspended for the same reason he's a good player - he plays with emotion. Unfortunately he can't always control his emotions. LBJ dropped 41 points on him and the Warriors in game 6 and a triple double in game 7. He was simply too good for the Warriors to handle that year and Curry, as he has in the finals, did not play up to his standard. Its very unlikely the Warriors would have won the next 2 years w/out KD. They barely got past the Rockets in 2018 and needed an all time terribly officiated game 7 + a CP3 injury to win that series. KD was always the alpha on those Warriors' teams as well hence the back to back finals MVPs.

If I recall correctly, Michael Jordan's last season with the bulls they won over 60 games and it was clear he was out of his prime by then.

This guy out here leading the lazy race to the finish. But king of goats.

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Yea, Draymond's history of kicking people in the nuts had nothing to do with his suspension. He got suspended for the same reason he's a good player - he plays with emotion. Unfortunately he can't always control his emotions. LBJ dropped 41 points on him and the Warriors in game 6 and a triple double in game 7. He was simply too good for the Warriors to handle that year and Curry, as he has in the finals, did not play up to his standard. Its very unlikely the Warriors would not have won the next 2 years w/out KD. They barely got past the Rockets in 2018 and needed an all time terribly officiated game 7 + a CP3 injury to win that series. KD was always the alpha on those Warriors' teams as well hence the back to back finals MVPs.

Yep. Couldnt have said it better myself. LMAO

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
Yea, Draymond's history of kicking people in the nuts had nothing to do with his suspension. He got suspended for the same reason he's a good player - he plays with emotion. Unfortunately he can't always control his emotions. LBJ dropped 41 points on him and the Warriors in game 6 and a triple double in game 7. He was simply too good for the Warriors to handle that year and Curry, as he has in the finals, did not play up to his standard. Its very unlikely the Warriors would not have won the next 2 years w/out KD. They barely got past the Rockets in 2018 and needed an all time terribly officiated game 7 + a CP3 injury to win that series. KD was always the alpha on those Warriors' teams as well hence the back to back finals MVPs.

Yep. Couldnt have said it better myself. LMAO

Typing error, haha. You know what I meant.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
KD didnt orchestrate forming a super team like Lebron did. The Warriors were that already anyway. Without LBJ whining and Dray getting suspended the team was pretty much a lock for back to back titles and had just set the record for the greatest record ever. I wont disagree about KD. Strange dude and all about himself anyway. I think the Dubs would have won titles again without him. But that is something we will never know.

But KD really isnt the topic in here anyway. A poster made the point that LBJ could have chased rings and then considered the GOAT. When in reality he did chase rings and orchestrated the formation of a super team through free agency.

Listen, no one is ever going to change anyone's mind about the GOAT. 4ML worships the ground that Lebron walks on and will always believe that he is the GOAT. Most people who watched MJ disagree, and like me, will probably never change our minds. It is what it is.

I already said there will be a better player(s) than Lebron in 20 years lool bc that's normal progression of most sports. I'm not gonna be an old fool in 20 years still clinging onto nostalgia from the good old days.

So, you're projecting. You can't change your mind - so you think others can't either.

I don't have a problem with anyone sticking with Jordan over Lebron. But if I say Lebron is GOAT - you can't handle it and must interject that Jordan is. Seems like you're the one worshiping. I even said it all comes down to preference and there isn't really a wrong answer between Lebron, Jordan, and Kareem.

We have gone back and forth on 2016. No point rehashing that. I just think if your team can't handle 3rd best player missing a game in a 7 game series with a 3-1 lead - then they weren't gonna win anyway. Love missed a game in the same series - Cavs figured out a way to win that game.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
KD didnt orchestrate forming a super team like Lebron did. The Warriors were that already anyway. Without LBJ whining and Dray getting suspended the team was pretty much a lock for back to back titles and had just set the record for the greatest record ever. I wont disagree about KD. Strange dude and all about himself anyway. I think the Dubs would have won titles again without him. But that is something we will never know.

But KD really isnt the topic in here anyway. A poster made the point that LBJ could have chased rings and then considered the GOAT. When in reality he did chase rings and orchestrated the formation of a super team through free agency.

Listen, no one is ever going to change anyone's mind about the GOAT. 4ML worships the ground that Lebron walks on and will always believe that he is the GOAT. Most people who watched MJ disagree, and like me, will probably never change our minds. It is what it is.

I already said there will be a better player(s) than Lebron in 20 years lool bc that's normal progression of most sports. I'm not gonna be an old fool in 20 years still clinging onto nostalgia from the good old days.

So, you're projecting. You can't change your mind - so you think others can't either.

I don't have a problem with anyone sticking with Jordan over Lebron. But if I say Lebron is GOAT - you can't handle it and must interject that Jordan is. Seems like you're the one worshiping. I even said it all comes down to preference and there isn't really a wrong answer between Lebron, Jordan, and Kareem.

We have gone back and forth on 2016. No point rehashing that. I just think if your team can't handle 3rd best player missing a game in a 7 game series with a 3-1 lead - then they weren't gonna win anyway. Love missed a game in the same series - Cavs figured out a way to win that game.

Thats funny. I dont recall starting a thread calling MJ - the King of Goats Thread. Why? Because I dont idolize him. I just recognize that he was and still is the best but dont feel the need to actually start his own special thread.

As for that series. I dont think it would have been any different than the other 3 times the Dubs beat the crap out of the Cavs. But feel free to think otherwise.