2016 - 2017 NBA Discussion Thread

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I meant.. I wouldnt give him a Max deal. I am sure some teams will though.

Fair enough. I just think there are a lot of teams in the NBA who don't/can't attract stars or super-stars. They have to go get them in FA.

Yep. No question about that. He will get paid thats for sure

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

I wouldn put him top 5. Maybe 7th but I personally wouldnt take him over any of these guys.

Curry
Paul
Westbrook
Wall
Irving
Lowry

This is a good list. Harden is playing PG this season - so I'm not sure where to put Harden. Anyway, there's no way Thomas is in top 5...and I believe he's underrated. Most ppl don't have him in top 10. PG position is historically great right now...so being in top 10 is no joke. Lillard is also up there.

Wall should be the starter in East. Wizards were near the bottom a month ago in East and have quickly climbed. I think they have a good chance of finishing 3rd or 4th in East. Wall is playing on a ridiculous level and he's the best defender among all PGs.

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I wouldn put him top 5. Maybe 7th but I personally wouldnt take him over any of these guys.

Curry
Paul
Westbrook
Wall
Irving
Lowry

This is a good list. Harden is playing PG this season - so I'm not sure where to put Harden. Anyway, there's no way Thomas is in top 5...and I believe he's underrated. Most ppl don't have him in top 10. PG position is historically great right now...so being in top 10 is no joke. Lillard is also up there.

Wall should be the starter in East. Wizards were near the bottom a month ago in East and have quickly climbed. I think they have a good chance of finishing 3rd or 4th in East. Wall is playing on a ridiculous level and he's the best defender among all PGs.

Well if you put Harden at PG then he would be in top 4 and drop Wall, Irving, and Lowry down a notch. To me that would clearly be the top 7.

After that I think you could put the next 4 with:
Lillard
Conley
Thomas
Walker

Thats your top 11.

John.....

Can you argue why you believe Kyrie Irving is better than Isaiah Thomas? I am genuinely interested to hear that take, because statistically, its not even close.

You guys are right. Top 5 was probably aggressive. But there is no question he is a max player talent.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
John.....

Can you argue why you believe Kyrie Irving is better than Isaiah Thomas? I am genuinely interested to hear that take.

You guys are right. Top 5 was probably aggressive. But there is no question he is a max player talent.

ok.. will try

• he has proved in at the highest level and won the world title with his clutch shot
• while not a great defender still not the defensive liability that Thomas is
• Colangelo and Coach K picked Irving for the Olympic team and Thomas didnt even get an invite. They know b-ball
• Irving was the #1 player picked in the draft. Thomas was the 60th pick and on 3rd team (ok im reaching here a bit)
• Irving has a better real plus/minus and RPM wins.

Really, I think the better question is why I have Irving listed over Lillard, Walker or Conley. That might be a mistake. IT probably would be 11th

Very impressive Sixers win tonight without Embiid over Clips. Clips had Blake too!

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
John.....

Can you argue why you believe Kyrie Irving is better than Isaiah Thomas? I am genuinely interested to hear that take.

You guys are right. Top 5 was probably aggressive. But there is no question he is a max player talent.

ok.. will try

• he has proved in at the highest level and won the world title with his clutch shot
• while not a great defender still not the defensive liability that Thomas is
• Colangelo and Coach K picked Irving for the Olympic team and Thomas didnt even get an invite. They know b-ball
• Irving was the #1 player picked in the draft. Thomas was the 60th pick and on 3rd team (ok im reaching here a bit)
• Irving has a better real plus/minus and RPM wins.

Really, I think the better question is why I have Irving listed over Lillard, Walker or Conley. That might be a mistake. IT probably would be 11th

my only beef with Kyrie is that he's injured quite a bit, he's yet to play a full season, and he basically plays 50 games a year.

Sixers beat the Clippers!

#TrustTheProcess

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
John.....

Can you argue why you believe Kyrie Irving is better than Isaiah Thomas? I am genuinely interested to hear that take.

You guys are right. Top 5 was probably aggressive. But there is no question he is a max player talent.

ok.. will try

• he has proved in at the highest level and won the world title with his clutch shot This is fair, but IT hasnt had the chance that KI has.
• while not a great defender still not the defensive liability that Thomas is I wanted to look up statistics, but I cant find any advanced stat list that either appears on. They are both out of the top 40 in RDPM. Neither are good. Kyrie is a liability too.
• Colangelo and Coach K picked Irving for the Olympic team and Thomas didnt even get an invite. They know b-ball Yeah well Kyrie played for coach K, so I would say that shouldnt be used to judge one versus the other
• Irving was the #1 player picked in the draft. Thomas was the 60th pick and on 3rd team (ok im reaching here a bit) Major reach. Draft position is irrelevant.
• Irving has a better real plus/minus and RPM wins. Both of these are such a small difference. 16th vs. 17th in RPM, and RPM wins is separated by 0.14

Really, I think the better question is why I have Irving listed over Lillard, Walker or Conley. That might be a mistake. IT probably would be 11th

Thank you for the effort. Other than my rebuttals above in bold, let me add more to this:

PER: 27.01 to 22.36 in favor of Thomas
EWA: 10.6 to 7.5 in favor of Thomas
TS%: .617 to .577 in favor of Thomas
PPG: 29.0 to 24.5 in favor of Thomas
APG: 6.9 to 5.6 in favor of Thomas
RPG: 3.4 to 2.7 in favor of Irving
S%: .469 to .461 in favor of Irving
Turnovers: 2.5 to 2.6 in favor of Thomas
FT%: .907 to .893 in favor of Thomas
FTAPG: 8.5 to 6.1 in favor of Thomas
3P%: .410 to .384 in favor of Irving

I dont know what other stats to include. But as you can see, Thomas leads Kyrie in an overwhelming majority of statistics, and is doing this as the leader of a team rather than the sidekick. And also, I still dont buy that Kyrie can stay healthy for an entire season. He hasn't since he played in high school.

I dunno man. I respect your opinion, but in my own humble opinion, this comparison isnt even close.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
John.....

Can you argue why you believe Kyrie Irving is better than Isaiah Thomas? I am genuinely interested to hear that take.

You guys are right. Top 5 was probably aggressive. But there is no question he is a max player talent.

ok.. will try

• he has proved in at the highest level and won the world title with his clutch shot This is fair, but IT hasnt had the chance that KI has.
• while not a great defender still not the defensive liability that Thomas is I wanted to look up statistics, but I cant find any advanced stat list that either appears on. They are both out of the top 40 in RDPM. Neither are good. Kyrie is a liability too.
• Colangelo and Coach K picked Irving for the Olympic team and Thomas didnt even get an invite. They know b-ball Yeah well Kyrie played for coach K, so I would say that shouldnt be used to judge one versus the other
• Irving was the #1 player picked in the draft. Thomas was the 60th pick and on 3rd team (ok im reaching here a bit) Major reach. Draft position is irrelevant.
• Irving has a better real plus/minus and RPM wins. Both of these are such a small difference. 16th vs. 17th in RPM, and RPM wins is separated by 0.14

Really, I think the better question is why I have Irving listed over Lillard, Walker or Conley. That might be a mistake. IT probably would be 11th

Thank you for the effort. Other than my rebuttals above in bold, let me add more to this:

PER: 27.01 to 22.36 in favor of Thomas
EWA: 10.6 to 7.5 in favor of Thomas
TS%: .617 to .577 in favor of Thomas
PPG: 29.0 to 24.5 in favor of Thomas
APG: 6.9 to 5.6 in favor of Thomas
RPG: 3.4 to 2.7 in favor of Irving
S%: .469 to .461 in favor of Irving
Turnovers: 2.5 to 2.6 in favor of Thomas
FT%: .907 to .893 in favor of Thomas
FTAPG: 8.5 to 6.1 in favor of Thomas
3P%: .410 to .384 in favor of Irving

I dont know what other stats to include. But as you can see, Thomas leads Kyrie in an overwhelming majority of statistics, and is doing this as the leader of a team rather than the sidekick. And also, I still dont buy that Kyrie can stay healthy for an entire season. He hasn't since he played in high school.

I dunno man. I respect your opinion, but in my own humble opinion, this comparison isnt even close.

to each his own. Again, I would go by who the Olympic coaches chose to represent USA. Irving made it. Thomas didnt. Jerry C and Coach K know a hell of a lot more basketball than either of us. I see at least 9 better point guards than Thomas and guys I would choose on my team ahead of him. Give me a clutch moment and I want Kyrie over Thomas.

You can show tons of offensive stats and show Thomas as superior. Its like comparing Westbrook to Curry. Both Thomas and Westbrook are THE guys on their teams and handling the ball all the time while Kyrie and Steph have to share with 2 other superstars. 24.5 PPG on a team with Love and James >>> 29 on a team without any other guy even at 18.

But.. again we can agree to disagree

The 2016 Slam Dunk Champion, Aaron Gordon, will compete in contest again this year.

Originally posted by jrg:
The 2016 Slam Dunk runnerup Aaron Gordon, will compete in contest again this year.

Yes. But is the 2 time defending champion, Zach Lavine doing it again?

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by jrg:
The 2016 Slam Dunk Champion, Aaron Gordon, will compete in contest again this year.

Yes. But is the 2 time defending champion, Zach Lavine doing it again?

No word on if the 2016 runner up Zach LaVine is doing it again. Just got the notification regarding Gordon, the candidate people actually care about.

Originally posted by jrg:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by jrg:
The 2016 Slam Dunk Champion, Aaron Gordon, will compete in contest again this year.

Yes. But is the 2 time defending champion, Zach Lavine doing it again?

No word on if the 2016 runner up Zach LaVine is doing it again. Just got the notification regarding Gordon, the candidate people actually care about.

I actually hope Gordon wins this time. Bay Area kid and it would at least give Orlando something to be proud of.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by jrg:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:

Originally posted by jrg:
The 2016 Slam Dunk Champion, Aaron Gordon, will compete in contest again this year.

Yes. But is the 2 time defending champion, Zach Lavine doing it again?

No word on if the 2016 runner up Zach LaVine is doing it again. Just got the notification regarding Gordon, the candidate people actually care about.

I actually hope Gordon wins this time. Bay Area kid and it would at least give Orlando something to be proud of.

hell, i'll take anything at this point lol