From tight-head props to outside centres: A brief introduction to Rugby | Page 3

munst49ERS · 2015-09-07T17:12:35-07:00

The Rugby World Cup is nearly upon us and, while we're in the spirit if embracing other football codes, here is a brief guide to Rugby to improve the viewing experience of rookies and casual fans alike. The game is broken down into two 40 minute halves with a 10 minute rest period in between. The aim of the game is very simple - use the ball to score more points than the other team. You can run with the ball, kick it and pass it, but passing forwards is not allowed. There are several ways to score points. A try - five points are awarded for touching the ball down in your opponent's goal area. A conversion - two points are added for a successful kick through the goalposts after a try A goal kick - three points are awarded for a penalty kick or drop goal through the posts Positions: Each team has 15 players on the pitch and play both attacking and defending roles. Players are numbered 1 to 15, with numbers 16 – 22 being used for the replacements. The number stays with the position and not the player as it can do in other sports, so for example the Full Back is always number 15. Positions 1-8 on the field are called the Forward pack. They are involved in all the set piece plays and contest the lineouts and scrums. Larger and more powerful than the Backs, they aim to win or retain the ball and drive the team up the field and in that respect are similar to linebackers or linesman in American Football. Positions 9-15 are called the Backs. They tend to be smaller than their Forward brothers as they need speed and agility to run the ball into space or kick for goal. They have to maximise the possession and get points on the board so would be similar to running backs or wide receivers in American Football. Forwards: Props (1, 3) Supports hooker in the scrum, lifts jumpers in the lineout. Key power at rucks and mauls for retaining ball. Not always the fastest or most athletic on the pitch, but manages to get the job done for the full 80 minutes Hooker (2) In the middle of the front row of the scrum, responsible for winning the ball. Throws ball at lineouts. While usually the smallest forward, plays a critical role of any good scrum or lineout. Locks (4, 5) Typically the largest players on the field, they have primary responsibility for being the power in scrums and securing the ball in lineouts. Due to their size, they are also normally powerful forces in all loose play, rucks, and mauls. Also known as Second Row. Flankers (6, 7) At the back of the scrum. Aim to win ball through turnovers. They are the most versatile players on the field, capable of producing awe-inspiring runs, running smart support lines, or playing hard-nosed defence if needed. Flankers (or breakaways) usually fall into two distinct roles - open side and blind side (see scrum reference for meaning of open/blind side). An open side flanker is usually faster and smaller and is tasked with being first to the breakdown (tackle) to win protect the ball if in possession or win it from the opposition if not. They also act like a type of NFL Gunner in defence at scrums or lineouts, zeroing in on the five eight at speed to put him under pressure or ideally tackle him (as heavily as possible). A blind side flanker will also be required to win and protect ruck ball, but usually do more ball carrying and defence against oncoming forwards. Number Eight (8) Rounding out the forward pack, the Number 8 is the link between the forward pack and backs. Controls ball at back of scrum before attack begins. Shares many of the versatile and athletic traits of the flankers.Number 8 also shoulders a lot of ball carrying responsibilities. Backs: Scrum Half (9) Feeds the ball into a scrum and retrieves the ball at the base of scrums, rucks, and mauls. Traditionally the smallest back, but not so much in recent times. Fly Half (10) Similar to QB in football. Will call plays for the backline, pass the ball to other backs, or provide most of the tactical kicks. Also commonly the goal kicker. Wing (11, 14) Typically fast and agile while powerful enough to break tackles. Gets on the end of plays and as a result score a lot of tries. Also have key duties during defence helping the fullback cover kicks and counterattacking. Centres (12, 13) Powerful runners who are the heart of the back running attack and defence. Good readers of the game with excellent handling and running skills. Fullback (15) The last line of defence, normally plays deep behind the backline. In attack the fullback is a dangerous attacking option hitting holes unexpectedly at pace. In defence the fullback has primary responsibility for covering all tactical kicks down field by the opposition. Some of the names for the 15 rugby positions have changed over the years and some have different names in different countries. Variations include: Flanker – wing forwards Number 8 – 8 man Scrum-half – half-back Fly-half – outside half, stand-off half, out half, first five-eighth Inside centre – second five-eighth Outside centre – centre three-quarter, centre Wing – wing three-quarter Other Basics: The Field The field is a rectangle 70 metres wide and 100 metres long. At each end of the field is an area called the in-goal. This is where tries are scored. The side lines are called the "touch lines". Scrum When play is stopped for a minor infringement (a forward pass or knock-on), it is restarted by a scrum made up of the 8 forwards from each team. At a scrum, the ball is rolled into the tunnel between the opposing "packs" by the scrum half (No. 9) and hooked back by a player from either side. At a scrum, all players not in the scrum must be behind the back of their side of the scrum, otherwise they are off-side. Except the half back who must remain behind the ball. A scrum (or even a maul or ruck) will have an "open" side and a "blind" (or "short") side. Quite simple, the open side is that side with the longest distance to the touch line and the "blind side that with the shortest distance to the touch line. Tackle When a player is running with the ball he may be "tackled' by an opposing player. When a player is tackled (brought to the ground and held), he must release the ball so that both teams can contest possession. Players must be on their feet when contesting possession. Rucks & Mauls Rucks and mauls are used to compete for the ball and to keep the game flowing. A ruck is formed when one player from each team comes into contact over the ball when it is on the ground. A maul is formed between opposing teams in a similar way to a ruck, except that the ball remains in the hand, as opposed to being on the ground. At a ruck or maul, all players not in the ruck or maul must be behind the back of their side of the ruck or maul, otherwise they are off-side. No hands are allowed to be used in rucks (see "rucking 101" video below) and the defending teams are not allowed to "bring down" a maul (i.e. tackle players in the maul to the ground.) Lineout When the ball is kicked, bounces or is carried into touch (the side boundaries) it may be brought back into play by a quick throw or at a formed lineout. In a lineout, the ball is thrown down the centre of the two lines of forwards to the players selected for their jumping skills. Players not taking part in the line out (the half back is "taking part") must remain 10 metres behind the line out. The line out continues until the ball clears the area or the referee rules it over. Overtime you'll come to learn and understand the many facets of the game. However, probably the two most important areas for any newbie to get to grips with are 1) the breakdown and 2) the kicking game The breakdown - the short period of open play immediately after a tackle and before and during the ensuing ruck. This is effectively where most games are won and lost. It's also where most infringements take place. This video does a great job at explaining what is and isn't allowed during the breakdown Rucking 101 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2SVNggxuBE Kicking game - specifically kicking to touch (side-line). Useful to know where the resulting line-out takes place and which team has possession. Kicking - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TLdgmjhV_Y Understanding these two areas will help your overall viewing enjoyment of the game.

Sep 9, 2015 at 6:11 AM

#31

Tonedog
Member
Posts: 463

Originally posted by valrod33:
I dont know why but I laughed pretty good after reading that every position has a name except for the poor sap who has to play No. #8

Lol yeah, I grew up playing rugby but perhaps in a very league-oriented area and "#8" was always a lock to me while "locks" were "second rowers". I agree number 8 sounds funny. I was a flanker, which I would I guess compare to a Mix of olb and strong safety.

Sep 9, 2015 at 12:14 PM

#32

DelCed2486
Veteran
Posts: 7,158

In watching rugby and AFL over past few years, I like League more than Union, probably b/c it more closely resembles American football. I've seen some people refer to Union as "Yawnion" and at times I would agree...but did watch AUS-USA the other day, and will catch a few games during WC. Ironically though probably my favorite form of rugby is Sevens (which I believe comes from Union). I like 7's since there's not so many players on the field, easier for me to follow, and it's faster-paced both in action on the field and actual game time. AFL is crazy and makes almost no sense to me, but still fun to watch.

Sep 9, 2015 at 5:39 PM

#33

SportOvaFilmTV
Veteran
Posts: 5,765

Originally posted by munst49ERS:
Haha...what gave it away. Huge respect for McCaw, he is an awesome player. A complete pain in the arse to play against, but the sort of player every team dreams of having.

Easy spot for any Rugby man.

True, very true... He just broke the test cap record of another player you could say the same about; the greats are always like that.

More...

Sep 9, 2015 at 7:59 PM

#34

SportOvaFilmTV
Veteran
Posts: 5,765

Originally posted by DelCed2486:
In watching rugby and AFL over past few years, I like League more than Union, probably b/c it more closely resembles American football. I've seen some people refer to Union as "Yawnion" and at times I would agree...but did watch AUS-USA the other day, and will catch a few games during WC. Ironically though probably my favorite form of rugby is Sevens (which I believe comes from Union). I like 7's since there's not so many players on the field, easier for me to follow, and it's faster-paced both in action on the field and actual game time. AFL is crazy and makes almost no sense to me, but still fun to watch.

The Bold/Italics:
Some of this is true...
AFB resembles R-League in terms of:
Strong Single (Recognised as the best*) Domestic Comp/League (NFL/NRL*) (NRL is dominant over Super League*)
Field markings
Tackle Count/Down system (Punting just before T-Count/Downs expire. Turnover if tackled in possession {Short of goal/target*} on last Tackle/Down*)
Collisions via shoulder charge, (This is now banned in R-League similar to R-Union... Biggest collisions occur on KRs/Kick Offs*)
Interchange/Substitutions
Fewer players on the field AFB (11) RL (13) RU (15)
However AFB resembles R-Union more in the areas of:
Complexity/Tactics/Set-Plays & both are heavy on rules/laws etc. (Not Theoretical Physics, but still complex for a game/sporting contest*)
Competitions/Contests within the contest & for the ball... R-Union has unlimited Tackles/Downs, but you have to compete for the ball in nearly all facets of play, teams train for & have specialist players to create turnovers. (RL players can only strip/steal the ball one-on-one in the tackle.)
Nature of the game creating conservative play... There are a lot more areas in RU where the ball can be turned over, so being aware of your surroundings/support players/field position etc.. Is paramount & must be taken in to consideration before certain decisions are made.
Specialized players in R-Union (Particularly in the Forwards*) like AFB players, have specialized roles… Certain body-types fit specific positions better & specialized training is undertaken at those positions. (RL has less specialization in their positions & RL athletes have a more general skill-set*)
R-Union players enter contact with lower body positions like in AFB... If you enter high you lose the collision & the ball can be turned over.

The Bold/Underlined:
Depends on what Rugby Union you watch?
RU is kind of like CFB if you don't know what games to watch it can seem dull.
I always say this about CFB:
Brilliant CFB= Possibly the greatest sport on the planet. (Elite teams going toe to toe, right down to the wire*) (Top 25/P5 conferences*)
Average CFB= Still better than most sports. (Some good, some bad, but still a good contest*)
Bad CFB= Possibly the worst sport on the planet.(Sloppy just plain bad FB or a terrible one sided mismatch that results in a blowout*) (Big Programs v Small Programs*)
Rugby Union is the same, the sport's power bases are fragmented Southern Hemisphere has its own joint domestic competition (Super Rugby*) & individual Semi-pro comps (NRC-Aus/ITM Cup-NZ/Currie Cup-RSA*) International representative competitions (Individual trophies/Rugby Championship/Pacific Nations Cup etc*)...
The Northern Hemisphere has their own joint domestic comp (European Rugby Champions Cup {Formerly Heineken Cup}*) Individual comps (Pro12-Ire-Ita-Sco-Wal/Aviva Premiership-Eng/Top 14-Fra*) (Top League is the Japanese comp*) International representative comps (Individual trophies/Six Nations/ etc*)
(Rugby World Cup*)
(The Sevens circuit as well*) (Sevens is at the Olympics now*)

So it can be confusing what is the best Rugby to watch.

RWC Pool A Example:
ENG vs AUS vs Wales... Great matchups (Powerful Rugby Nations, could be epic contests*)
ENG/AUS/WALES vs Fiji.... Good/Average matchup (Fiji is a Sevens Power house, but not as dangerous at 15-aside Rugby, could still surprise though... Possible good/average contests*)
ENG/AUS/WALES/Fiji vs Uruguay... mismatch (Uruguay is a small Rugby power, so all of these games could be lopsided blowouts*)

The Bold:
AFL is one of the fastest field sports in existence only Football/Soccer can match its tempo when played with pace... Both Rugby codes & AFB can't come close to the end to end frenetic pace those two sports can exhibit. (Both games can also be highly entertaining even when the play is sloppy*)

AFL is also very unique the only game that could be considered similar is Gaelic Football. (munst49ERS may be able to provide more info.

)
AFL also utilizes a lot of familiar things to American Football; such as:
AFL's domestic League & Premiership trophy is the highest prize in the sport, similar to the Super Bowl. (Not representative honours*)
AFL has an All-Australian team similar to All-Pro.
AFL has its own rookie player draft.
Pre-draft combine.
HOF

[ Edited by SportOvaFilmTV on Sep 9, 2015 at 8:08 PM ]

Sep 9, 2015 at 9:27 PM

#35

JTsBiggestFan
Veteran
Posts: 7,758

Originally posted by munst49ERS:
I fully appreciate this is first and foremost an American Football forum, and for all I know there is zero interest in rugby, and that's fair enough.

For me, as a huge rugby* fan, following Hayne's journey piqued my interest in the NFL. I've enjoyed what I've seen and look forward to watching more. Similarly, there may be those of you who have glanced an eye towards the rugby world, and if so, hopefully this intro will be of use. And no better time to take a look with the best players on show at the world cup which only comes around every 4 years.

*yes that's union, but also enjoy league

Thank You for your post!!! Always wanted a Rugby crash course.

Sep 10, 2015 at 5:04 AM

#36

munst49ERS
Veteran
Posts: 35

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
Thank You for your post!!! Always wanted a Rugby crash course.

No problem mate!

Sep 10, 2015 at 5:13 AM

#37

munst49ERS
Veteran
Posts: 35

Originally posted by SportOvaFilmTV:
The Bold/Italics:
Some of this is true...
AFB resembles R-League in terms of:
Strong Single (Recognised as the best*) Domestic Comp/League (NFL/NRL*) (NRL is dominant over Super League*)
Field markings
Tackle Count/Down system (Punting just before T-Count/Downs expire. Turnover if tackled in possession {Short of goal/target*} on last Tackle/Down*)
Collisions via shoulder charge, (This is now banned in R-League similar to R-Union... Biggest collisions occur on KRs/Kick Offs*)
Interchange/Substitutions
Fewer players on the field AFB (11) RL (13) RU (15)
However AFB resembles R-Union more in the areas of:
Complexity/Tactics/Set-Plays & both are heavy on rules/laws etc. (Not Theoretical Physics, but still complex for a game/sporting contest*)
Competitions/Contests within the contest & for the ball... R-Union has unlimited Tackles/Downs, but you have to compete for the ball in nearly all facets of play, teams train for & have specialist players to create turnovers. (RL players can only strip/steal the ball one-on-one in the tackle.)
Nature of the game creating conservative play... There are a lot more areas in RU where the ball can be turned over, so being aware of your surroundings/support players/field position etc.. Is paramount & must be taken in to consideration before certain decisions are made.
Specialized players in R-Union (Particularly in the Forwards*) like AFB players, have specialized roles… Certain body-types fit specific positions better & specialized training is undertaken at those positions. (RL has less specialization in their positions & RL athletes have a more general skill-set*)
R-Union players enter contact with lower body positions like in AFB... If you enter high you lose the collision & the ball can be turned over.

The Bold/Underlined:
Depends on what Rugby Union you watch?
RU is kind of like CFB if you don't know what games to watch it can seem dull.
I always say this about CFB:
Brilliant CFB= Possibly the greatest sport on the planet. (Elite teams going toe to toe, right down to the wire*) (Top 25/P5 conferences*)
Average CFB= Still better than most sports. (Some good, some bad, but still a good contest*)
Bad CFB= Possibly the worst sport on the planet.(Sloppy just plain bad FB or a terrible one sided mismatch that results in a blowout*) (Big Programs v Small Programs*)
Rugby Union is the same, the sport's power bases are fragmented Southern Hemisphere has its own joint domestic competition (Super Rugby*) & individual Semi-pro comps (NRC-Aus/ITM Cup-NZ/Currie Cup-RSA*) International representative competitions (Individual trophies/Rugby Championship/Pacific Nations Cup etc*)...
The Northern Hemisphere has their own joint domestic comp (European Rugby Champions Cup {Formerly Heineken Cup}*) Individual comps (Pro12-Ire-Ita-Sco-Wal/Aviva Premiership-Eng/Top 14-Fra*) (Top League is the Japanese comp*) International representative comps (Individual trophies/Six Nations/ etc*)
(Rugby World Cup*)
(The Sevens circuit as well*) (Sevens is at the Olympics now*)

So it can be confusing what is the best Rugby to watch.

RWC Pool A Example:
ENG vs AUS vs Wales... Great matchups (Powerful Rugby Nations, could be epic contests*)
ENG/AUS/WALES vs Fiji.... Good/Average matchup (Fiji is a Sevens Power house, but not as dangerous at 15-aside Rugby, could still surprise though... Possible good/average contests*)
ENG/AUS/WALES/Fiji vs Uruguay... mismatch (Uruguay is a small Rugby power, so all of these games could be lopsided blowouts*)

The Bold:
AFL is one of the fastest field sports in existence only Football/Soccer can match its tempo when played with pace... Both Rugby codes & AFB can't come close to the end to end frenetic pace those two sports can exhibit. (Both games can also be highly entertaining even when the play is sloppy*)

AFL is also very unique the only game that could be considered similar is Gaelic Football. (munst49ERS may be able to provide more info. )
AFL also utilizes a lot of familiar things to American Football; such as:
AFL's domestic League & Premiership trophy is the highest prize in the sport, similar to the Super Bowl. (Not representative honours*)
AFL has an All-Australian team similar to All-Pro.
AFL has its own rookie player draft.
Pre-draft combine.
HOF

Excellent post!

AFB resembles R-League in terms of:
Strong Single (Recognised as the best*) Domestic Comp/League (NFL/NRL*) (NRL is dominant over Super League*)

I'd say this is a fair assessment of things in Australia where R-League has it's strongest following. Not so much outside of Australia where R-Union would be the more popular code.

AFL is also very unique the only game that could be considered similar is Gaelic Football. (munst49ERS may be able to provide more info. )

That's true, but I'm more of a Hurling man myself

- probably the fastest field sport around....but that's a completely different ball game altogether!

[ Edited by munst49ERS on Sep 10, 2015 at 5:49 AM ]

Sep 10, 2015 at 10:54 AM

#38

DelCed2486
Veteran
Posts: 7,158

Originally posted by SportOvaFilmTV:

The Bold:
AFL is one of the fastest field sports in existence only Football/Soccer can match its tempo when played with pace... Both Rugby codes & AFB can't come close to the end to end frenetic pace those two sports can exhibit. (Both games can also be highly entertaining even when the play is sloppy*)

Wait, what, soccer is "frenetic"? It's a bunch of standing around, light jogging, the ball going out of bounds, and teams kicking it back-and-forth interrupted by the occasional sprint and maybe a shot on goal once in a while. You couldn't pay me to watch it.

Sep 10, 2015 at 10:41 PM

#39

SportOvaFilmTV
Veteran
Posts: 5,765

Originally posted by munst49ERS:
Excellent post!

AFB resembles R-League in terms of:
Strong Single (Recognised as the best*) Domestic Comp/League (NFL/NRL*) (NRL is dominant over Super League*)
I'd say this is a fair assessment of things in Australia where R-League has it's strongest following. Not so much outside of Australia where R-Union would be the more popular code.

AFL is also very unique the only game that could be considered similar is Gaelic Football. (munst49ERS may be able to provide more info. )
That's true, but I'm more of a Hurling man myself - probably the fastest field sport around....but that's a completely different ball game altogether!

Damn, that Hurling video. (Fast is an understatement*)

Yeah, I was only referring to Rugby League in that statement, not Union. Rugby League doesn't have the depth of competitions that Rugby Union does.

R-League has:
State Of Origin Rep-(Still the pinnacle of the sport*)
International Rep-(Only really 3 Powers AUS/NZ/ENG...Then a drop off in quality... Players still value Origin Rep over International, with players choosing QLD/NSW jumpers over NZ. In Rugby Union this never happens International is the pinnacle bar none*) [4Nations/RLWC]
NRL-(The NRL is clear-cut the best domestic R-League comp in the world, Super League in the North is quite some distance behind... The best players gravitate towards the NRL, even elite talent from the North*)

So that's what League has in common with the NFL... There are other Football leagues such as the CFL, (Canadian Football League*) AFL, (Arena Football League*) but none of them are close to the equal of the NFL, nobody chooses the CFL over the NFL. (NFL is the best Football league & NRL is the best Rugby League Comp in the world... Majority {NFL ALL*} of the best FB/RL players play in those leagues*)

Rugby Union is different: (Greater depth of players between the Hemispheres*)
International Rep is the ultimate honour (RWC/6 Nations/Rugby Championship etc*) [Strong comps in both the North & South]
Club Rep in various forms- (European Rugby Champions Cup/Super Rugby etc*) [The big difference is that in Rugby Union the best players are split between the North & the South, so it is difficult to say which is the best domestic Rugby Union Comp in the world? It's kind of a 50/50 split between the best players playing in the Northern Hemisphere & the best players playing in the Southern Hemisphere... There is no unified competition where the best of both the North & South battle... Only at International level, RWC*)

Union is more popular Worldwide, but like I said more fragmented... So it can be harder for neutral fans to navigate the quality games...

If you want to watch the best R-League you just watch the NRL, the tournament is only played in Aus & NZ (One game in NZ for something like 12 weeks, due to the NZ Warriors team... Majority of games are played in Aus*)... So it makes it easy to follow & see the best games as they are played at the same/similar time... (The NFL also plays most of its games at the same time.... Except Primetime games*)

In R-Union it's challenging as a lot of the games in the South are split between NZ/AUS/RSA... So for AUS fans the best games of the round may be played in NZ or RSA that has wide variance betweens game start times... NZ games are played between 4:30-7:30pm (Aus time) sometimes earlier, South African games are played between 12-4am (Aus time).... Northern Hemisphere games are played between 12-6am (Aus time) sometimes later in the morning. Australian neutral Rugby Union fans may have no interest in NZ v NZ games or RSA v RSA games, as well as Northern Hemisphere games... Which is unfortunate as games played in those regions may be the best games of the weekend.

Sep 10, 2015 at 11:18 PM

#40

SportOvaFilmTV
Veteran
Posts: 5,765

Originally posted by DelCed2486:

Originally posted by SportOvaFilmTV:

The Bold:
AFL is one of the fastest field sports in existence only Football/Soccer can match its tempo when played with pace... Both Rugby codes & AFB can't come close to the end to end frenetic pace those two sports can exhibit. (Both games can also be highly entertaining even when the play is sloppy*)

Wait, what, soccer is "frenetic"? It's a bunch of standing around, light jogging, the ball going out of bounds, and teams kicking it back-and-forth interrupted by the occasional sprint and maybe a shot on goal once in a while. You couldn't pay me to watch it.

It most certainly is, did/have you not see/seen the Fifa World Cup Brazil 2014/Uefa Champions League Round of 16/Top of the table clashes in the EPL, La Liga? Those games were/are crazy end-to-end contests.... Football/Soccer is like CFB/Rugby Union you have to navigate the various levels of competition to know when the blockbuster matchups are on & what games to watch.

You could also say Football/Soccer suffers from the same problem the NBA does, season is too long & they play too many games... Quantity over quality, always creates lacklustre, low intensity/quality, meaningless games... If you're a neutral you just have to navigate around it.

I'm a neutral fan, who just loves good Football/Soccer:

EPL/La Liga have started, but I don't start watching these leagues until halfway through the season when the stakes are higher.
I don't watch the Uefa Champions League until the Round of 16 begins.
I don't watch International friendlies, World Cup qualifiers & Euro qualifiers.... I don't care who makes into the big two tournaments, I only care about the tournaments themselves. I never miss the World Cup & Euro they are ihmo, the two best International sporting events in the world, 3rd is the Summer Olympics, 4th RWC.
I don't watch Football/Soccer at the Olympics, Junior World Cup or the Women's World Cup (Sorry ladies nothing personal*)... The reason is Football/Soccer has almost no offseason, so I deliberately skip a large number of events/competitions/portion of the season so not to dull my appetite... I like off seasons, everybody needs a break after all.

[ Edited by SportOvaFilmTV on Sep 10, 2015 at 11:20 PM ]

Sep 11, 2015 at 1:25 AM

#41

munst49ERS
Veteran
Posts: 35

Originally posted by SportOvaFilmTV:
Damn, that Hurling video. (Fast is an understatement*)

Yeah, I was only referring to Rugby League in that statement, not Union. Rugby League doesn't have the depth of competitions that Rugby Union does.

R-League has:
State Of Origin Rep-(Still the pinnacle of the sport*)
International Rep-(Only really 3 Powers AUS/NZ/ENG...Then a drop off in quality... Players still value Origin Rep over International, with players choosing QLD/NSW jumpers over NZ. In Rugby Union this never happens International is the pinnacle bar none*) [4Nations/RLWC]
NRL-(The NRL is clear-cut the best domestic R-League comp in the world, Super League in the North is quite some distance behind... The best players gravitate towards the NRL, even elite talent from the North*)

So that's what League has in common with the NFL... There are other Football leagues such as the CFL, (Canadian Football League*) AFL, (Arena Football League*) but none of them are close to the equal of the NFL, nobody chooses the CFL over the NFL. (NFL is the best Football league & NRL is the best Rugby League Comp in the world... Majority {NFL ALL*} of the best FB/RL players play in those leagues*)

Rugby Union is different: (Greater depth of players between the Hemispheres*)
International Rep is the ultimate honour (RWC/6 Nations/Rugby Championship etc*) [Strong comps in both the North & South]
Club Rep in various forms- (European Rugby Champions Cup/Super Rugby etc*) [The big difference is that in Rugby Union the best players are split between the North & the South, so it is difficult to say which is the best domestic Rugby Union Comp in the world? It's kind of a 50/50 split between the best players playing in the Northern Hemisphere & the best players playing in the Southern Hemisphere... There is no unified competition where the best of both the North & South battle... Only at International level, RWC*)

Union is more popular Worldwide, but like I said more fragmented... So it can be harder for neutral fans to navigate the quality games...

If you want to watch the best R-League you just watch the NRL, the tournament is only played in Aus & NZ (One game in NZ for something like 12 weeks, due to the NZ Warriors team... Majority of games are played in Aus*)... So it makes it easy to follow & see the best games as they are played at the same/similar time... (The NFL also plays most of its games at the same time.... Except Primetime games*)

In R-Union it's challenging as a lot of the games in the South are split between NZ/AUS/RSA... So for AUS fans the best games of the round may be played in NZ or RSA that has wide variance betweens game start times... NZ games are played between 4:30-7:30pm (Aus time) sometimes earlier, South African games are played between 12-4am (Aus time).... Northern Hemisphere games are played between 12-6am (Aus time) sometimes later in the morning. Australian neutral Rugby Union fans may have no interest in NZ v NZ games or RSA v RSA games, as well as Northern Hemisphere games... Which is unfortunate as games played in those regions may be the best games of the weekend.

Ah my mistake, when you mentioned 'Super League' I had 'Super 15' in my head. Completely agree, your analysis is spot on!

Sep 12, 2015 at 12:59 AM

#42

SportOvaFilmTV
Veteran
Posts: 5,765

Originally posted by munst49ERS:
Ah my mistake, when you mentioned 'Super League' I had 'Super 15' in my head. Completely agree, your analysis is spot on!

(All Good!!!)

I wonder if we can turn this thread into the 49ersWebZone 2015 RWC Thread?

6 Days to go

Sep 15, 2015 at 5:16 AM

#43

munst49ERS
Veteran
Posts: 35

Originally posted by SportOvaFilmTV:
(All Good!!!)

I wonder if we can turn this thread into the 49ersWebZone 2015 RWC Thread?

6 Days to go

Sure why not!

3 days to go...

Here's a decent preview from http://www.independent.co.uk/

RWC 2015: Our rugby writers' predictions - Who will win, top try and points scorer, player of the tournament and what to look forward to.

JACK DE MENEZES Author Biography , CHRIS HEWETT , IAN HERBERT , HUGH GODWIN , KEVIN GARSIDE , MATT MAJENDIE , TOM PECK

The 2015 Rugby World Cup begins on Friday as host nation England take on Fiji at Twickenham to kick-off six weeks of action-packed rugby union across the country as well as in Cardiff.

With all four home nations harbouring high expectations of winning the tournament, Australia and South Africa desperate to show they are not an also-ran when it comes to reigning world champions New Zealand and the likes of France, Argentina and the Pacific Islands certainly in the mix, it's set-up to be one of the most unpredictable tournaments in recent memory.

So we've rounded up our rugby union writers that will bring you full coverage throughout the World Cup to get their predictions and expectations for the next six weeks. Enjoy.

Which team will be the surprise package of the World Cup?

Chris Hewett (rugby union correspondent): You can make an argument for France, unloved and unrated after a dismal run of Six Nations form, or Scotland, who have spent recent years beating Italy and no one else. But in all seriousness, Tonga have the best chance of punching above their ranking weight. When they face Argentina in Leicester in early October, they could be one decent performance away from a first quarter-final.

Ian Herbert (chief sports writer): Australia seem to have been forgotten amid the perennial talk of New Zealand but their win over the All Blacks last month underlined the exceptional power and pace they possess with their counter-attacking game. I expect them to emerge as winners of the Group of Death.

Hugh Godwin (rugby union correspondent): The intel coming through from those who have played or refereed them recently is that Japan have improved vastly in the last five years, with a good balance of indigenous talent, and quality ex-pats. The Cherry Blossoms beat a mostly second-string Wales 23-8 in Tokyo in Lions year, 2013 – a match current Welsh fly-half Dan Biggar played in, when his counterpart kicker Ayumu Goromaru accumulated 13 points. Japan's Eddie Jones told me last spring he would play his first team against South Africa, with the aim of building confidence, and if things go well, many of the same players would meet Scotland, despite the four-day turnaround. We'll see…but with 10 days' rest, Japan could knock over Samoa followed by another week to get ready for the USA. The poor things were made to watch highlights of their previous efforts at their World Cup 'Welcome Ceremony' and having never made it out of the first-round pool, they didn't request a replay.

Kevin Garside (sports writer): The power distribution among the top teams does not allow for many surprises in Union. It is more a question of which of the fringe nations can make the quarters, and that will come down to Samoa or Japan in pool B.

Matt Majendie (sports writer): France - Not since the 1991 World Cup have they failed to reach the semi-finals or better. They may seem to be in disarray having only finished fourth in the Six Nations but have a propensity of turning it on at the right time in the tournament.

Tom Peck (sports news correspondent): France. All but ignored over the last few weeks, half written off, but France have made the semi-finals of the as the last four World Cups and the final last time round. The "Gallic Flair" has gone, so we are told. But the game has changed. They are powerful, experienced and well organised. Don't be surprised to see them in the semi-finals again. And from there, who knows?

Jack de Menezes (sports writer): I'd love to see Fiji get in the mix. All the talk of the "Pool of Death" has focused around the three leading nations, but you should write off the Pacific Islanders at your peril. Never before have they had so long to prepare for a tournament, and they've pulled off an upset or two in their time – just ask the 2007 Wales side. But if Pool A goes as planned, look to Pool B for the Samoa and, dare I say it, Japan to threaten Scotland's quarter-final hopes. Thierry Dusatoir will be pivotal to any French success Thierry Dusatoir will be pivotal to any French success

Which player will be the top try scorer?

CH: Julian Savea, the All Black wing, has been picking on England since 2012, but the draw means he will have to find himself some fresh victims. If he's in optimum shape, the man from Wellington has the physical power and finishing instinct to top the try charts.

IH: Nehe Milner-Skudder of New Zealand. He has only two caps but we've already seen some of his immense pace and some player to watch. The All Blacks' gentle group, with Tonga the weakest of the Pacific Islanders, as well as Georgia and Namibia – could help him on his way.

HG: Chris Ashton (remember him?) and Vincent Clerc shared this honour last time in New Zealand; but mainly it has been New Zealander wings dominating over the years. With the draw the All Blacks have this time, Julian Savea or Nehe Milner-Skudder could rack up a handful of tries in the pool stage to set the standard. The main reason to go for the powerful Savea over his smaller, nippier team-mate is that Milner-Skudder has less experience of British conditions. PS I'd like to see the Scottish try machine Tim Visser on the charts; he has been a magnificently reliable threat for years.

KG: Julian Savea, a clinical finisher on the end of the most efficient try-creating machine in the game. Savea is not only powerful and quick, he sniffs opportunity at 100 paces and is lethal in full flight, as his 150 career points demonstrate. Julian Savea has scored eight tries in five games against England Julian Savea has scored eight tries in five games against England

MM: Nehe Milner-Skudder - This may be something of a punt having only just forced his way into the starting line-up and having played two Tests but he should have no shortage of chances on the wing for the All Blacks.

TP: As for tries, there's a whole range of candidates. It's hard to see England getting anywhere without a few tries from Jonathan Joseph, so why not him?

JDM: Nehe Milner-Skudder stands a strong chance of taking the spoils as the All Blacks will want to protect Julian Savea in one or two matches given the threat he will pose in the latter stages, but I'm going to go with the incredibly talented Ben Smith. Adept at playing near enough anywhere outside fly-half, he could bag a bucket-load of tries coming into the line as the extra man if the Tonga, Namibia and Georgia don't pick him up. Nehe Milner-Skudder scored two tries on debut against Australia Nehe Milner-Skudder scored two tries on debut against Australia

Which player will be the top points scorer?

CH: Leigh Halfpenny, the world's best goal-kicker, would have scored as heavily as most, even if Wales failed to make it out of the "pool of death". Now he is restricted to a watching brief, place a small bet on whichever New Zealander performs the marksmanship duties in the "soft" games against Georgia and Namibia. Colin Slade, perhaps?

IH: Jonathan Sexton. Ireland have a poor World Cup record, never going beyond the quarters, but I have feeling that this could be Sexton's tournament, with their game built around his kicking.

HG: I wouldn't be surprised if the All Blacks' other fly-half Beauden Barrett is short odds, as he may fill his boots (almost literally) as a kicker in a couple of pool matches and always likely to appear in the second half of matches even if Carter starts. If England go well, George Ford possesses a try threat to add to the points he can expect to garner with the boot. But dear old Dan Carter should come out on top if the All Blacks progress to the final and he stays fit.

KG: Dan Carter, as long as he stays fit. At 33 and playing his final World Cup the body is catching up with him, but he remains first choice in a team that will give the most prolific boot in history plenty of work.

MM: Dan Carter - If Ireland are firing and haven't peaked too soon then Jonathan Sexton could give Carter a run for his money but the All Blacks No.10 should rack up the points handsomely in the pool stages alone.

TP: It's an obvious answer, but it's obvious for a reason. Dan Carter. For a very long time, New Zealand were the team that peaked between the World Cups. Those days appear to be gone. The finest Number 10 of all time, kicking in the tournament's best team. Someone, feasibly, could outscore him. He might get injured. But they'd have to be a terrific upset.

JDM: As much as you want to pick someone outside of the obvious candidate that might just make you look like the oracle come the 31 October, New Zealand's Pool C opposition means you can't look beyond Dan Carter. The All Blacks will be determined to reach the last eight by proving a point – or many when it comes to Carter's trusty left boot. Can anyone stop Dan Carter from scoring the most points? Can anyone stop Dan Carter from scoring the most points?

Who is your tip to be player of the tournament?

CH: Probably a toss-up between Israel Folau, the Wallaby full-back, a second Australian in the flanker Michael Hooper and Eben Etzebeth, the phenomenal Springbok lock. Folau and Etzebeth would walk blindfold into a World XV; Hooper would give Richie McCaw a proper run for his money. A little less obviously, the French wing Yoann Huget looks one hell of an act right now.

IH: Israel Folau (Australia). Incredible attacking talent – that much was clear from the last Lions tour and we have not seen anything yet.

HG: It would be wonderful to see Juan Martin Hernandez of Argentina banish all memories of his years of injury hassle and produce the full range of his gifts as possibly the most all-round talented fly-half on the planet. A more likely choice is Israel Folau, who has that gilded ability to shine even when his team are going backwards. The full-back may occupy a different position to Jonah Lomu but in many ways Folau is the Lomu of his day: nigh on unstoppable.

KG: Jonathan Joseph, the balletic presence at the heart of England's creative endeavours. He has transformed England's back line with his eel-like advances. Has the ability to stop time when he takes possession. Central to England's prospects.

MM: Israel Folau - Australia's two-time player of the year is a three-code star having played rugby league and Aussie rules, and is the central X-factor to an exciting Wallabies back line. Israel Folou has the potential to be the star of the World Cup Israel Folou has the potential to be the star of the World Cup

TP: Dan Carter again. To be your nation's favourite son, but to miss the crucial moments of victory in a home World Cup, as happened to Carter four years ago, can hardly be more bittersweet. It leaves him with both a title to defend, and a point to prove. That's a dangerous combination. Not that he needs any such thing to be the tournament's best player. He just is.

JDM: There doesn't seem to be too many people eyeing up the fairytale farewell for Richie McCaw. The openside flanker has been the most consistent player of his generation, and who would reject the sentimental – and very achievable – proposition of awarding him the best player of the tournament before letting him ride off into the sunset.

Who is under the most pressure heading into the tournament?

CH: That's easy. Stuart Lancaster, the England coach. Pressure is the price you pay for being the homeland boss, and Lancaster has cranked up the heat on himself with some controversial selection calls. Think Danny Cipriani, Luther Burrell, Billy Twelvetrees, Kyle Eastmond, Steffon Armitage, Maro Itoje and, it goes without saying, Sam Burgess.

IH: England, of course, with the huge level of expectation – and therefore by definition George Ford, on whom national hopes are based.

HG: England's captain, Chris Robshaw. During interviews with former England captains Will Carling and Lawrence Dallaglio in recent days, it was intriguing to hear both men identify a lack of strong leaders in support of Robshaw as a problem. The Harlequins flanker cuts a phlegmatic figure on the pitch most of the time, and tackles opponents all day long, but there have been a number of occasions (for club and country) when he has looked a little perplexed in those knife-edge moments of decision-making. Posts or line-out? Scrum or tap and go? The well-liked 'Robbo' must stay cool to unscramble those mental conundrums.

KG: England and by definition coach, Stuart Lancaster. Though Lancaster has transformed the England landscape post 2011, expectation is high. Failure to secure the Six Nations in March drew heavy criticism from above. As the best resourced coach in world rugby there can be no excuses. The Sam Burgess gamble better pay off.

MM: Stuart Lancaster - It has to be as the coach to the hosts and also having seemingly gone against his usual meticulous approach by taking a massive punt on selecting Sam Burgess at centre, a decision that may make or break how he's perceived at the end of the tournament. The pressure is on Lancaster to deliver a home World Cup success The pressure is on Lancaster to deliver a home World Cup success

TP: England. By miles. A home World Cup, a team with so little experience of having played together, and a challenge just to get out of the pool that should by rights have been keeping them awake at night since the second it was drawn. To have to get past a brilliant Wales side and the resurgent Australians just to make it to the knockout stages of your own tournament? That's terrifying stuff. But inexperience in sport - and England are inexperienced - often manifests itself in the form of fearlessness. It will have to.

JDM: To go against the grain of my colleagues, I'm going to avoid England because of the fact that they are hosts. At every World Cup the home nation has achieved what has been expected, and more often than not even better. Bar 1999, the worst a host nation has ever done is reach the semi-finals, while South Africa and New Zealand twice have managed to win on home soil. With the Twickenham (and Etihad) crowd behind them, why can't England reach the last four? Heck, why can't they win the whole thing. There will be a tonne of pressure on the defending champions in a bid to give their departing half-dozen a fitting send off, and we all know what the pressure from the New Zealand public does at World Cup time. McCaw could be the first captain to win back-to-back World Cups McCaw could be the first captain to win back-to-back World Cups

What are you most looking forward to?

CH: More in hope than expectation, an uprising from the underclass: one of the South Seas island contingent, perhaps, or even poor old Italy, who are due a World Cup knock-out tie. Realistically speaking, the greatest joy will be the sight of the Wallaby midfielder Matt Giteau or the French centre Wesley Fofana proving that you don't need to be the size of a house to play some rugby.

IH: The Pacific Islanders. The new 'Pacific Warriors' film has been a tantalising reminder of what they have offered in this competition. Their colour is required to prevent this tournament drifting into predictability.

Could one of the Pacific Islands shock the rest of the world? Could one of the Pacific Islands shock the rest of the world? HG: England's matches against Wales and Australia should be spellbinding, deafening Twickenham occasions. And any signs that the host nation (plus Cardiff!) is embracing rugby beyond the simple parameters of spectators turning up to watch matches would be glorious. I'm going to Brighton on the first weekend – Springboks and Samoans, and Japanese and Americans in the Sussex sun, what more could you want?!

KG: Getting out and about to parts of the country where Union is not strong. Looking forward to covering matches in Leeds and Milton Keynes, and hoping the tournament produces the kind of mad, festival atmosphere conjured by the Olympics in 2012.

MM: Seeing how exactly Pool A pans out with Australia, England and Wales all in that particular pool of death and a potential climax in the game between the Wallabies and Wales on 10 October depending on the permutations of the pool by that point.

TP: Good grief. Where do you start? The whole thing. The All Blacks are slightly out in front, but what makes this the most mouth-watering Rugby World Cup ever is that England, Ireland, Australia, South Africa, Wales and arguably France all have every justification to believe they can and should be beating each other. Expect a whole load of brilliant matches.

JDM: Having been at the clash between the two sides last autumn, the Pool A meeting between England and Australia could be one of the greats. The Wallabies are a considerably better side than 10 months ago, and they appeared to bring out the best in England's attack. Expect a points fest, though it may not be the happy ending the Twickenham faithful are looking for. Australia v England at Twickenham could be a classic Australia v England at Twickenham could be a classic

Who will win the 2015 Rugby World Cup?

CH: If France reach the last four, they could also end up as the last ones standing. More likely, Australia. The Wallabies love Britain so much, they have never failed to win a World Cup staged in these islands.

IH: Australia

HG: You can construct all sorts of desperate cases for why New Zealand might not win it. Maybe Argentina will rough them up in the very first match, this Sunday, and all bets will be off. But this World Cup more than any other is set to be an endurance test. Who has the squad to cope? England, possibly, with their decent forwards cosseted by home comforts. Australia? South Africa? The winners of the France/Ireland pool? The eventual champions' team may look substantially different in the final to the one they started the tournament with. So it has to be New Zealand, on the basis that they have more good players than anyone else. New Zealand are favourites to win the World Cup for a third time New Zealand are favourites to win the World Cup for a third time

KG: The head says New Zealand, but as we have seen so many times, the heart can blow a hole in any calculation once we reach the knockout stage, and the All Blacks are a team coming to the end of a cycle. The winners will be the team that makes fewest mistakes and takes its chances. Easy peasy.

MM: New Zealand - It's unoriginal but it's also hard to look past the All Blacks, who have lost just twice in the 47 Test matches they have played since Richie McCaw lifted aloft the trophy four years ago.

TP: New Zealand. On their day, no one can beat them. And the days when they didn't have their day appear to be over. Could Australia emulate the World Cup winning sides of 1991 and 1999? Could Australia emulate the World Cup winning sides of 1991 and 1999?

JDM: A month ago it was England, but the closer the tournament gets, the less convinced I am. However, I don't believe the All Black will win it either – they're due another choke right, and a potential quarter-final against France in Cardiff will bring back some haunting memories – so who else. Ireland have never had a better chance to win, though they arrive off the back of two warm-up defeats that were more concerning than the scoreline suggests. Step forward Australia. Their 1991 and 1999 successes put them in good stead to triumph once again in the Northern Hemisphere, they've hit their stride at the right time and have managed to find a way to play Michael Hooper and David Pocock on the same side. Scary. Oh, and they beat the All Blacks last month.

Sep 15, 2015 at 5:18 AM

#44

munst49ERS
Veteran
Posts: 35

Nice piece on the US out-half from the42.ie

Aj MacGinty, the Dublin-born out-half leading USA into the World Cup

[ Edited by munst49ERS on Sep 15, 2015 at 5:19 AM ]

Sep 16, 2015 at 6:17 AM

#45

SportOvaFilmTV
Veteran
Posts: 5,765

Originally posted by munst49ERS:
Nice piece on the US out-half from the42.ie

Aj MacGinty, the Dublin-born out-half leading USA into the World Cup

Good read... MacGinty is a fine player; he really stood out in the recent AUS v US match in Chicago...

Thanks for all the other info too...

My thoughts on a couple of things they covered...

My teams that can win the 2015 RWC: (I believe only 7 teams have a realistic chance.)

First tier (Teams with the best chance): NZ/ENG/IRE
Second tier (Teams with a chance, if things work in their favour): AUS/RSA
Third tier (Teams with an outside chance): FRA/WAL

{Argentina is just too inconsistent to be considered a chance this RWC...}

My RWC Top Tries Scorers: (I feel one of these players will win that title.)
[In no particular order]

Fav:
Jonny May ENG
Israel Folau AUS
Nehe Milner-Skudder NZ
Anthony Watson ENG
Waisake Naholo NZ

(George North/Liam Williams WAL as an outside chance)

[ Edited by SportOvaFilmTV on Sep 18, 2015 at 10:30 AM ]