2014-15 NBA General Discussion Thread

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by NeonNiner:
6 total team assists on a team with Lebron and Love is pretty paltry. Zero assists in what, 45 minutes, for a starting PG with those weapons around him is almost inexcusable.

That said, the team will eventually put it together, I doubt they could look any worse, only way to go is up. Installing a new offense, getting guys to buy in, determining fit and gaining chemistry is no easy task that will be done overnight.

Offensively, they'll eventually begin to gel, it'll come together; what's more worrisome IMO is their defense (or lack thereof) and thin depth.

What's hilarious is...before the game on Wednesday evening:

David Blatt tried to establish the Cavs' food chain during Wednesday's film session and team meeting. According to a source with knowledge of the meeting, Blatt essentially told the players that LeBron James and Kevin Love eat first and that it's Kyrie Irving's job as point guard to feed them. Irving can then find his own rhythm after the first two guys get going.

...what does Irving do? He goes out and takes most shots and doesn't have 1 assist lol. It's gonna take a while but I'm sure he'll it figure it out.

And, look at the contrasting answers by Lebron and Kyrie on a 6 assist night:

"No, no, no," Irving said when asked if he is concerned about the lack of assists. "We have great players on this team. Sometimes, things happen in the game, and you have to take it. Me and 'Bron saw that at the end of the game. We gave guys ample opportunities; guys just weren't hitting."

"There's no way you're going to win a basketball game like that, just having six assists," James said. "We had two in the first half, we had four in the second half and we had actually four [total] until the last minute and a half of the game. We just can't win like that, and we got to figure out a way to help each other and not make it so tough."

And, that's the biggest roadblock with Kyrie. He thinks he's playing great because he's scoring points.

..and - it's not just Irving. It will take Blatt 25-30 games to really figure out everything too. Cavs have the 2nd slowest pace in the league lol

Lebron has been passive-aggressive as well and wants Kyrie to figure it out

So, it's early and like any other inexperienced team - they gotta fall first before they win anything meaningful.

Waiters falls into this too. I think thats why he was benched and only played 13 minutes because Blatt assumed the team would be more passive without him on the court but instead it became the Kyrie show. The vets like Miller and Marion really need to start contributing too though. They both have been ice cold to start this season so far and if they're not hitting I think Kyrie just stops trusting his teammates and feels like he has to take over. Also I know it didn't get a lot of attention but they resigned Will Cherry (University of Montana's own ) on Sunday and he might be a nice surprise pickup. He plays at 110% all the time, a very pass first kind of PG, and is great defensively so he may be a nice boost off the bench for the offense when Kyrie is sitting.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by sacniner:
Is Hayward better than Harden you think?

Klay has been beasting this year.

I'd put Harden ahead of Hayward. I'm not a huge fan of his, but he's a tremendous offensive weapon, even with his defensive deficiencies. I'd say that the SG rankings right now are...

1) Klay Thompson
2) James Harden
3) Kobe Bryant
4) Dwyane Wade
5) Gordon Hayward

JMO

That's fair. I do think - Beal should be in top 5 conversation. Of course, PG is injured - otherwise he gets the top spot or no. 2 spot imho.

And I know DeMar DeRozan is canadian and all - but poor guy deserves some love. IMO you can make a case for him in top 5 if we're not considering Beal and PG due to injuries.

Originally posted by JustinMT:

Originally posted by 4ML:

Originally posted by NeonNiner:
6 total team assists on a team with Lebron and Love is pretty paltry. Zero assists in what, 45 minutes, for a starting PG with those weapons around him is almost inexcusable.

That said, the team will eventually put it together, I doubt they could look any worse, only way to go is up. Installing a new offense, getting guys to buy in, determining fit and gaining chemistry is no easy task that will be done overnight.

Offensively, they'll eventually begin to gel, it'll come together; what's more worrisome IMO is their defense (or lack thereof) and thin depth.

What's hilarious is...before the game on Wednesday evening:

David Blatt tried to establish the Cavs' food chain during Wednesday's film session and team meeting. According to a source with knowledge of the meeting, Blatt essentially told the players that LeBron James and Kevin Love eat first and that it's Kyrie Irving's job as point guard to feed them. Irving can then find his own rhythm after the first two guys get going.

...what does Irving do? He goes out and takes most shots and doesn't have 1 assist lol. It's gonna take a while but I'm sure he'll it figure it out.

And, look at the contrasting answers by Lebron and Kyrie on a 6 assist night:

"No, no, no," Irving said when asked if he is concerned about the lack of assists. "We have great players on this team. Sometimes, things happen in the game, and you have to take it. Me and 'Bron saw that at the end of the game. We gave guys ample opportunities; guys just weren't hitting."

"There's no way you're going to win a basketball game like that, just having six assists," James said. "We had two in the first half, we had four in the second half and we had actually four [total] until the last minute and a half of the game. We just can't win like that, and we got to figure out a way to help each other and not make it so tough."

And, that's the biggest roadblock with Kyrie. He thinks he's playing great because he's scoring points.

..and - it's not just Irving. It will take Blatt 25-30 games to really figure out everything too. Cavs have the 2nd slowest pace in the league lol

Lebron has been passive-aggressive as well and wants Kyrie to figure it out

So, it's early and like any other inexperienced team - they gotta fall first before they win anything meaningful.

Waiters falls into this too. I think thats why he was benched and only played 13 minutes because Blatt assumed the team would be more passive without him on the court but instead it became the Kyrie show. The vets like Miller and Marion really need to start contributing too though. They both have been ice cold to start this season so far and if they're not hitting I think Kyrie just stops trusting his teammates and feels like he has to take over. Also I know it didn't get a lot of attention but they resigned Will Cherry (University of Montana's own ) on Sunday and he might be a nice surprise pickup. He plays at 110% all the time, a very pass first kind of PG, and is great defensively so he may be a nice boost off the bench for the offense when Kyrie is sitting.

Good call on Cherry. I remember seeing him in couple games in summer league. With Dellavedova injured - I think we'll see him on the court.

As for Miller...I think he has attempted 3 shots in 50+ minutes so far this season lol...and Lebron was pissed about that last night.

...and it's no surprise Waiters is gonna have the toughest time with this. The dude is delusional about his abilities.

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I think Harden is the best offensive 2 guard in basketball but that Klay is the top all around player. His defense has just gotten so much better over the past 2 years.

Pete... realistically... do you think the Warriors have a shot at the NBA title this year?

Yes. I posted in the Warriors thread during the preseason that my jaw hit the floor when I saw what they were doing offensively. Their player and ball movement is incredible. They looked like the Spurs, except with arguably the 2 best shooters in the game.

EVERYTHING hinges on Andrew Bogut's health come playoff time. All of the other pieces are there, but he's historically fragile, and he'd be the hardest player to replace.

Other than that, the only reason that I'd pick against the Warriors is that a team usually has to lose relatively deep in the playoffs before they get over the hump, and the Dubs haven't done that yet. But I love what Kerr is doing up there.

Originally posted by 4ML:
What's hilarious is...before the game on Wednesday evening:

David Blatt tried to establish the Cavs' food chain during Wednesday's film session and team meeting. According to a source with knowledge of the meeting, Blatt essentially told the players that LeBron James and Kevin Love eat first and that it's Kyrie Irving's job as point guard to feed them. Irving can then find his own rhythm after the first two guys get going.

...what does Irving do? He goes out and takes most shots and doesn't have 1 assist lol. It's gonna take a while but I'm sure he'll it figure it out.

And, look at the contrasting answers by Lebron and Kyrie on a 6 assist night:

"No, no, no," Irving said when asked if he is concerned about the lack of assists. "We have great players on this team. Sometimes, things happen in the game, and you have to take it. Me and 'Bron saw that at the end of the game. We gave guys ample opportunities; guys just weren't hitting."

"There's no way you're going to win a basketball game like that, just having six assists," James said. "We had two in the first half, we had four in the second half and we had actually four [total] until the last minute and a half of the game. We just can't win like that, and we got to figure out a way to help each other and not make it so tough."

And, that's the biggest roadblock with Kyrie. He thinks he's playing great because he's scoring points.

..and - it's not just Irving. It will take Blatt 25-30 games to really figure out everything too. Cavs have the 2nd slowest pace in the league lol

Lebron has been passive-aggressive as well and wants Kyrie to figure it out

So, it's early and like any other inexperienced team - they gotta fall first before they win anything meaningful.

Ya, maybe it's going to take time, but I've been rolling my eyes at the downplaying of this teams chances. This is the most talented roster in the league.

Originally posted by 4ML:
That's fair. I do think - Beal should be in top 5 conversation. Of course, PG is injured - otherwise he gets the top spot or no. 2 spot imho.

And I know DeMar DeRozan is canadian and all - but poor guy deserves some love. IMO you can make a case for him in top 5 if we're not considering Beal and PG due to injuries.

Love Beal, he's just hurt right now. He's right on the fringes, as is DeRozan. PG's mostly played SF in the past (Stephenson was their SG), so that's why I didn't include him.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
I think Harden is the best offensive 2 guard in basketball but that Klay is the top all around player. His defense has just gotten so much better over the past 2 years.

Pete... realistically... do you think the Warriors have a shot at the NBA title this year?

Yes. I posted in the Warriors thread during the preseason that my jaw hit the floor when I saw what they were doing offensively. Their player and ball movement is incredible. They looked like the Spurs, except with arguably the 2 best shooters in the game.

EVERYTHING hinges on Andrew Bogut's health come playoff time. All of the other pieces are there, but he's historically fragile, and he'd be the hardest player to replace.

Other than that, the only reason that I'd pick against the Warriors is that a team usually has to lose relatively deep in the playoffs before they get over the hump, and the Dubs haven't done that yet. But I love what Kerr is doing up there.

I agree about health and Bogut specifically. He really does so much for the team in terms of defense, rebounding, and is an excellent passer too. Just pray for the team to stay healthy.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
Ya, maybe it's going to take time, but I've been rolling my eyes at the downplaying of this teams chances. This is the most talented roster in the league.

I've said that from the start because outside of Lebron and Varejao - no one has played in a playoff game. Talent alone isn't enough...experience and chemistry matters. I don't think anyone thinks Ariza is more talented than Parsons but it seems like he's a much better fit for Rockets (though I acknowledge it's too early).

...and few teams can win championship without good defense. I'm not sure if Love, Irving, and Waiters have ever played good defense consistently for a week.

On top of that - you've a coach who has never coached in the NBA. Just too many things have to click. Chances are - it won't happen in year 1.
Year 2...things may be different but I consider this season will be about setting up what happens in Year 2.

As far as talent is considered - I think Chicago has more talent and depth if/when D-Rose is healthy. I think Warriors are up there (again, if Bogut is healthy) - Clippers aren't any less talented.

And, once Durant and Westbrook are back - they'll once again sport the most talented roster in the league. Their 3 stars play both offense and defense.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by 4ML:
That's fair. I do think - Beal should be in top 5 conversation. Of course, PG is injured - otherwise he gets the top spot or no. 2 spot imho.

And I know DeMar DeRozan is canadian and all - but poor guy deserves some love. IMO you can make a case for him in top 5 if we're not considering Beal and PG due to injuries.

Love Beal, he's just hurt right now. He's right on the fringes, as is DeRozan. PG's mostly played SF in the past (Stephenson was their SG), so that's why I didn't include him.

Good point on PG.

Originally posted by 4ML:
I've said that from the start because outside of Lebron and Varejao - no one has played in a playoff game. Talent alone isn't enough...experience and chemistry matters. I don't think anyone thinks Ariza is more talented than Parsons but it seems like he's a much better fit for Rockets (though I acknowledge it's too early).

...and few teams can win championship without good defense. I'm not sure if Love, Irving, and Waiters have ever played good defense consistently for a week.

On top of that - you've a coach who has never coached in the NBA. Just too many things have to click. Chances are - it won't happen in year 1.
Year 2...things will be different.

As far as talent is considered - I think Chicago has more talent and depth if/when D-Rose is healthy. I think Warriors are up there (again, if Bogut is healthy) - Clippers aren't any less talented.

And, once Durant and Westbrook are back - they'll once again sport the most talented roster in the league. Their 3 stars play both offense and defense.

But we're not in the playoffs.

The Cavs have the best player in the game, another guy who was ranked #7 in the recent NBA rankings, and another who was #23. Three all-stars, three guys who would get max contracts from virtually every team in the league. And then you have an excellent mix of youth and experience in the supporting cast, with guys like Dion Waiters, Anderson Varejao, Shawn Marion, Tristan Thompson, etc.

No other team in the NBA has that kind of top end talent and that kind of depth.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by 4ML:
I've said that from the start because outside of Lebron and Varejao - no one has played in a playoff game. Talent alone isn't enough...experience and chemistry matters. I don't think anyone thinks Ariza is more talented than Parsons but it seems like he's a much better fit for Rockets (though I acknowledge it's too early).

...and few teams can win championship without good defense. I'm not sure if Love, Irving, and Waiters have ever played good defense consistently for a week.

On top of that - you've a coach who has never coached in the NBA. Just too many things have to click. Chances are - it won't happen in year 1.
Year 2...things will be different.

As far as talent is considered - I think Chicago has more talent and depth if/when D-Rose is healthy. I think Warriors are up there (again, if Bogut is healthy) - Clippers aren't any less talented.

And, once Durant and Westbrook are back - they'll once again sport the most talented roster in the league. Their 3 stars play both offense and defense.

But we're not in the playoffs.

The Cavs have the best player in the game, another guy who was ranked #7 in the recent NBA rankings, and another who was #23. Three all-stars, three guys who would get max contracts from virtually every team in the league. And then you have an excellent mix of youth and experience in the supporting cast, with guys like Dion Waiters, Anderson Varejao, Shawn Marion, Tristan Thompson, etc.

No other team in the NBA has that kind of top end talent and that kind of depth.

Oh they'll figure it out. I also think they'll do well in the post-season but won't go all the way. Miami started 9-8 in first 17 games - and all those guys were vets who were ready to sacrifice from day 1 and had a coaching staff that was in place for years.

Again...I disagree with you on talent.

Give me Reggie Jackson, Adams, and Perry Jones over Waiters, Thompson and Marion. If/When Reggie Jackson leaves next season - he'll put up 20/9 numbers...better than Kyrie last year.

Originally posted by 4ML:
Oh they'll figure it out. I also think they'll do well in the post-season but won't go all the way. Miami started 9-8 in first 17 games - and all those guys were vets who were ready to sacrifice from day 1 and had a coaching staff that was in place for years.

Again...I disagree with you on talent.

Give me Reggie Jackson, Adams, and Perry Jones over Waiters, Thompson and Marion. If/When Reggie Jackson leaves next season - he'll put up 20/9 numbers...better than Kyrie last year.

You left out Varejao, who's the best player out of all of them.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by 4ML:
Oh they'll figure it out. I also think they'll do well in the post-season but won't go all the way. Miami started 9-8 in first 17 games - and all those guys were vets who were ready to sacrifice from day 1 and had a coaching staff that was in place for years.

Again...I disagree with you on talent.

Give me Reggie Jackson, Adams, and Perry Jones over Waiters, Thompson and Marion. If/When Reggie Jackson leaves next season - he'll put up 20/9 numbers...better than Kyrie last year.

You left out Varejao, who's the best player out of all of them.

Sure...replace Varejao with Thompson. I don't think based on talent, Varejao is the best in that group but sure.

Originally posted by 4ML:
Sure...replace Varejao with Thompson. I don't think based on talent, Varejao is the best in that group but sure.

You don't have to replace Thompson. They have both guys. That's my point. Varejao, Waiters, Marion, Thompson...that's a helluva supporting cast to go along with LeBron, Love, & Kyrie.

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