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Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
It amazes me how now people complain about DeFo, he got $21M a yr, I was called crazy, told he won't get anywhere near $20M a yr, again I wish we kept him, but I'm over it. Happy with Kinlaw and Aiyuk.

Yep. When you look at our DL in 2019, Ford was more integral to our success than DeFo, in OUR scheme. When Ford was on the field our D was legendary when he wasn't, we were ok.

They gave Ford a huge contract. You can't give big contracts to your entire DL.

Our problems on defense last year didn't have anything to do with not having Buckner and had everything to do with not having Bosa and Ford.

  • All22
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 2,899
Originally posted by KittleMeThis:
Originally posted by falconshane:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Garbage fans throw garbage temper tantrums when the discussion gets too complicated. Dumbing down the conversation doesn't help. Don't expose yourself bro. Not a good look.

You're the one calling armstead and ward garbage while saying Buckner is Aaron Donald when he's not. You're the one criticizing lynch and shanahan for resigning Williams and signing Alex Mack who was a solid center a week ago but all of a sudden is garbage because he's a niner. You're the one calling the niners cheap when we literally made kittle
the highest paid tight end Williams the highest paid left tackle and probably Warner the highest kid linebacker. But whatever apparently everything the niners do is bad and all 31 other teams have a better team then we do

i will say armstead and ward are garbage. but Buckner is def not Donald, but Buckner over armstead and ward easily.

Make no mistake, Ward is a good player. Just easily replaceable in a draft deep at safety. Signing him to that deal was a massive mistake.
[ Edited by All22 on Mar 17, 2021 at 1:01 PM ]
Originally posted by All22:
Originally posted by KittleMeThis:
Originally posted by falconshane:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Garbage fans throw garbage temper tantrums when the discussion gets too complicated. Dumbing down the conversation doesn't help. Don't expose yourself bro. Not a good look.

You're the one calling armstead and ward garbage while saying Buckner is Aaron Donald when he's not. You're the one criticizing lynch and shanahan for resigning Williams and signing Alex Mack who was a solid center a week ago but all of a sudden is garbage because he's a niner. You're the one calling the niners cheap when we literally made kittle
the highest paid tight end Williams the highest paid left tackle and probably Warner the highest kid linebacker. But whatever apparently everything the niners do is bad and all 31 other teams have a better team then we do

i will say armstead and ward are garbage. but Buckner is def not Donald, but Buckner over armstead and ward easily.

Make no mistake, Ward is a good player. Just easily replaceable in a draft deep at safety. Signing him to that deal was a massive mistake.

I really think his cap hit is worth it for this reason:

I see his role in this defense as being the reliable backstop that allows the other 10 to play more loose and aggressive. Attack up front and hold the line at the back so you get another chance to attack up front. I think his temperament and athleticism are ideally suited for this.
[ Edited by Midbay on Mar 17, 2021 at 1:17 PM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Yep. When you look at our DL in 2019, Ford was more integral to our success than DeFo, in OUR scheme. When Ford was on the field our D was legendary when he wasn't, we were ok.

They gave Ford a huge contract. You can't give big contracts to your entire DL.

Our problems on defense last year didn't have anything to do with not having Buckner and had everything to do with not having Bosa and Ford.

So I guess you let Amstead walk and get a player closer to what we wanted Ford to be?

JD not trying to be argumentative, just trying to see the logic, that I was okay with, until the team pulled out the $ for Trent.

The only saving grace for me is the claim that Buck didn't want a cap-friendly deal.

You're conflating things. Refusing to give Buck 21m/year when we had Ford at 19.5/year didn't have to do with not being able to find the money somewhere, but what does it mean as far as where the team values money spent.

Committing almost 29% of your(projected) salary cap into DL means you've spent over half your defensive money on the line. If you value Fred Warner at 10% of the cap, that's now 39%. QB is about 12-13%, roughly, so you've committed 51% of your spending and you still have secondary, OL, RB, TE, WR and other KB and rotational players. Thats too many cap dollars concentrated. Having/not having Trent isn't the point, it's having the money to invest in a premiere LT, whomever it could be, would one become available because you've budgeted for it.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by falconshane:
If we didn't resign armstead then I guarantee everybody would've said "OMG WE DIDNT RESIGN ARMSTEAD!! LYNCH AND SHANAHAN DONT KNOW WHAT THEYRE DOING AND NEED TO BE FIRED" armstead and ward are solid players but nope apparently they suck and are absolute busts and I guarantee we wouldn't have been able to resign kittle and Williams this year if it wasn't for Buckner albatross contract demands thinking he's Aaron Donald. But whatever it's the "let's criticize everything lynch and shanahan do because they rebuilt a dumpster fire team into a solid team that can compete for championship. God this is why I hate our garbage fanbase

Garbage fans throw garbage temper tantrums when the discussion gets too complicated. Dumbing down the conversation doesn't help. Don't expose yourself bro. Not a good look.

Goldensnake is out of control again. This is like his 18th account. Poor mods. At least his M.O. is incredibly easy to spot.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by falconshane:
If we didn't resign armstead then I guarantee everybody would've said "OMG WE DIDNT RESIGN ARMSTEAD!! LYNCH AND SHANAHAN DONT KNOW WHAT THEYRE DOING AND NEED TO BE FIRED" armstead and ward are solid players but nope apparently they suck and are absolute busts and I guarantee we wouldn't have been able to resign kittle and Williams this year if it wasn't for Buckner albatross contract demands thinking he's Aaron Donald. But whatever it's the "let's criticize everything lynch and shanahan do because they rebuilt a dumpster fire team into a solid team that can compete for championship. God this is why I hate our garbage fanbase

Garbage fans throw garbage temper tantrums when the discussion gets too complicated. Dumbing down the conversation doesn't help. Don't expose yourself bro. Not a good look.

Goldensnake is out of control again. This is like his 18th account. Poor mods. At least his M.O. is incredibly easy to spot.
Lol, how do these guys have time to make extra accounts and try to sound like a different poster each time?
Originally posted by zeppfan1:
Lol, how do these guys have time to make extra accounts and try to sound like a different poster each time?

LOL. He doesn't even try to be different. That's what makes it even more moronic.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Yep. When you look at our DL in 2019, Ford was more integral to our success than DeFo, in OUR scheme. When Ford was on the field our D was legendary when he wasn't, we were ok.

They gave Ford a huge contract. You can't give big contracts to your entire DL.

Our problems on defense last year didn't have anything to do with not having Buckner and had everything to do with not having Bosa and Ford.

So I guess you let Amstead walk and get a player closer to what we wanted Ford to be?

JD not trying to be argumentative, just trying to see the logic, that I was okay with, until the team pulled out the $ for Trent.

The only saving grace for me is the claim that Buck didn't want a cap-friendly deal.

You're conflating things. Refusing to give Buck 21m/year when we had Ford at 19.5/year didn't have to do with not being able to find the money somewhere, but what does it mean as far as where the team values money spent.

Committing almost 29% of your(projected) salary cap into DL means you've spent over half your defensive money on the line. If you value Fred Warner at 10% of the cap, that's now 39%. QB is about 12-13%, roughly, so you've committed 51% of your spending and you still have secondary, OL, RB, TE, WR and other KB and rotational players. Thats too many cap dollars concentrated. Having/not having Trent isn't the point, it's having the money to invest in a premiere LT, whomever it could be, would one become available because you've budgeted for it.

Apologies for the conflation. I think I get what you're saying here.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm okay with those skewed ratios or rather I'm okay with over-spending on the QB, protecting the passer and rushing the passer - and ensuring dollars invested have a good/high return.

Don't get me wrong, I was hoping for every move the FO has made thus far as the bare minimum of what we should do. We are clearly in win-now mode given Mack's deal. I'm just concerned that where our $ are invested won't have high returns when we focus on mid-tier players for 2 - 3 year deals when say a 5 year deal albeit more expensive looks that way today but pays dividends long term.

The plan seems super short term.

It could also be what players want. Mid tier guys aren't going to get market value. Think of a Kerry Hyder. 2 years ago he'd be getting 10+/yr easy on 4 year deals. There's still talented guys out there not sniffing big deals. Like Sammy Watkins, JuJu and others. Players are taking shorter deals and chances to cash in once the cap goes back up.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Yep. When you look at our DL in 2019, Ford was more integral to our success than DeFo, in OUR scheme. When Ford was on the field our D was legendary when he wasn't, we were ok.

They gave Ford a huge contract. You can't give big contracts to your entire DL.

Our problems on defense last year didn't have anything to do with not having Buckner and had everything to do with not having Bosa and Ford.

So I guess you let Amstead walk and get a player closer to what we wanted Ford to be?

JD not trying to be argumentative, just trying to see the logic, that I was okay with, until the team pulled out the $ for Trent.

The only saving grace for me is the claim that Buck didn't want a cap-friendly deal.

You're conflating things. Refusing to give Buck 21m/year when we had Ford at 19.5/year didn't have to do with not being able to find the money somewhere, but what does it mean as far as where the team values money spent.

Committing almost 29% of your(projected) salary cap into DL means you've spent over half your defensive money on the line. If you value Fred Warner at 10% of the cap, that's now 39%. QB is about 12-13%, roughly, so you've committed 51% of your spending and you still have secondary, OL, RB, TE, WR and other KB and rotational players. Thats too many cap dollars concentrated. Having/not having Trent isn't the point, it's having the money to invest in a premiere LT, whomever it could be, would one become available because you've budgeted for it.

Apologies for the conflation. I think I get what you're saying here.

I guess what I'm saying is that I'm okay with those skewed ratios or rather I'm okay with over-spending on the QB, protecting the passer and rushing the passer - and ensuring dollars invested have a good/high return.

Don't get me wrong, I was hoping for every move the FO has made thus far as the bare minimum of what we should do. We are clearly in win-now mode given Mack's deal. I'm just concerned that where our $ are invested won't have high returns when we focus on mid-tier players for 2 - 3 year deals when say a 5 year deal albeit more expensive looks that way today but pays dividends long term.

The plan seems super short term.

I see both sides of the argument/issue and it brings back to mind, that nowadays, it is impossible to be back in Coach Walsh's time where Eddie just kept writing checks. Now we have progressed(???) to where there isn't enough money to get the talent you need at all positions, and a big part of GMing is knowing where to overallocate and where you have to scrimp. The answer to the above is, on today's cap football, there is NO good ANSWER. Do what you think is best , in this case QB, protect him with OL and have a DL that intimidates opposing QBs. The rest just has to be apportioned/ divided according to what we have left to spend.

The real hope is that like in Rd #5 we have hit on two all pros. If your scouting team /F.O can beat everyone else (or most of them, anyway), then you win. But today, if you win, then you are back at square one next yr. Same thing repeats itself yr after yr in cap football....and THAT is NOT news.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Mar 17, 2021 at 2:45 PM ]
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Yep. When you look at our DL in 2019, Ford was more integral to our success than DeFo, in OUR scheme. When Ford was on the field our D was legendary when he wasn't, we were ok.

They gave Ford a huge contract. You can't give big contracts to your entire DL.

Our problems on defense last year didn't have anything to do with not having Buckner and had everything to do with not having Bosa and Ford.

That's why we should've grabbed the younger more available version of Ford in Ngakoue. But it is what it is.
Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Yep. When you look at our DL in 2019, Ford was more integral to our success than DeFo, in OUR scheme. When Ford was on the field our D was legendary when he wasn't, we were ok.

They gave Ford a huge contract. You can't give big contracts to your entire DL.

Our problems on defense last year didn't have anything to do with not having Buckner and had everything to do with not having Bosa and Ford.

That's why we should've grabbed the younger more available version of Ford in Ngakoue. But it is what it is.

Yeah but that's thr price of Ford dealing with being Ford.

In one sense, I don't blame them for giving Ford the contract they did. When he and Bosa were in the field it was special and something no one else in the league had. So, you keep that. But, if Ford cut come back, you can't really drop another contract like that until you clear the old one.
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:
Originally posted by jonnydel:
Yep. When you look at our DL in 2019, Ford was more integral to our success than DeFo, in OUR scheme. When Ford was on the field our D was legendary when he wasn't, we were ok.

They gave Ford a huge contract. You can't give big contracts to your entire DL.

Our problems on defense last year didn't have anything to do with not having Buckner and had everything to do with not having Bosa and Ford.

That's why we should've grabbed the younger more available version of Ford in Ngakoue. But it is what it is.

Yeah but that's thr price of Ford dealing with being Ford.

In one sense, I don't blame them for giving Ford the contract they did. When he and Bosa were in the field it was special and something no one else in the league had. So, you keep that. But, if Ford cut come back, you can't really drop another contract like that until you clear the old one.

Yep. At this point Ford is damaging the team with his cap hit even with the restructure. Those 12m could be sent to a player who actually stays on the field.
Lynch tendency with injured players could have to do with Lynch being an injury prone guy early on his career. He is like "if I could do it, they can as well". Hopefully lesson learned, and we don't see more Kwon, Richburg, Ford kind of deals.
The fact they signed Ebukam and Mack who are always available is a good sign.
Actually Kwon and Ford were a consequence of the Solly and Reuben busting.
Need to get rid of the Richburg and Ford burden now.
Yo. AB!

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yo. AB!


He was never worked back into to work back out. Lol
Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
Yep. At this point Ford is damaging the team with his cap hit even with the restructure. Those 12m could be sent to a player who actually stays on the field.
Lynch tendency with injured players could have to do with Lynch being an injury prone guy early on his career. He is like "if I could do it, they can as well". Hopefully lesson learned, and we don't see more Kwon, Richburg, Ford kind of deals.
The fact they signed Ebukam and Mack who are always available is a good sign.
Actually Kwon and Ford were a consequence of the Solly and Reuben busting.
Need to get rid of the Richburg and Ford burden now.

Ford had an $11M injury guarantee regardless.
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