49ers select Jordan James-RB-Oregon with the 147th pick in the 2025 NFL Draft

Originally posted by mcwoot:
The question is can he pass protect. If so, then give him heavy snaps

It's more about Kyle expecting perfection from rookies when he doesn't get perfection from veterans. There's such a value in letting young guys learn and grow early so they're rolling late in the season

Originally posted by CardinalGold:

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by All22:
Kyle has a little of that Phil Jackson thing where the Legends/HOFers get to do what they want.

Its not just that. Kyle values execution over anything else, and his system is quite rigid. See why Tonges couldnt get any burn when Kittle was healthy. Hes got a playcall and he wants whoever is available in that position, the #1 guy to be the guy. Hes never been a "we have specific talent here so lets try to cater to players strengths".

This means all rookies have a double wall to get through because they dont know the system and it takes a while to learn. And if they make a mistake they get set back. But how are they not going to mistake when theyre rookies ?

The only option is if rookie is so talented they will blow the incumbent vet out of the water. This doesnt happen often because they havent drafted well. And its like a vicious feedback loop because they dont draft for BPA. They draft for need at the position which is dictated by the system. They dont draft in a way of "heres a guy with a unique skillset that can extend our system and bring an extra element to it", they draft in a way of "we need a backup TE for our scheme, lets get someone who can be that". That's how you end up with Latu's.

100. This is probably the most insightful post I've read on the zone.

Given it's been 9 years now in this regime, do you see the approach ever changing?

That really was a great post and sadly I don't see it changing. Watkins, Cowing, and James all seemed a bit more polished coming out- certain more than Guerendo but got nothing. That playbook has to have their head spinning for them to no snaps in the regular season. It's like having four extra draft picks.

Originally posted by mcwoot:
The question is can he pass protect. If so, then give him heavy snaps

Can't be any worse than other players on the offense, Brocks on the run for his life every time he drops back.

Bust, couldnt make the field at all

Originally posted by Niners418:

Originally posted by mcwoot:
The question is can he pass protect. If so, then give him heavy snaps

It's more about Kyle expecting perfection from rookies when he doesn't get perfection from veterans. There's such a value in letting young guys learn and grow early so they're rolling late in the season

It seems its the opposite on defense. Guys like Sigle, Stout, West, etc got such valuable experience. They would've played no matter what but got even more reps due to injury. So much to build from with those guys and Collins, Williams, and Mustapha.

Our young rookies on offehse have very little to build off of.

Originally posted by CardinalGold:
+100. This is probably the most insightful post I've read on the zone.

Given it's been 9 years now in this regime, do you see the approach ever changing?

Thanks, Im flattered. No one ever has said this to me before. Prolly because Im a confrontational asshle. lol.

I dont really see it changing a lot. Their drafts have been better as of lately, but I think its also in part to just them realizing the roster is aging and there are no more budding stars, or even good solid players like Al-Shaiir. I want them to understand positional value and draft value. Look at how well Eagles draft. All they need a good coach and an oc (like Shanahan) and that team is contending for many years even with a very limited qb.

Just this season, look at Bourne. Good pickup initially, but as season went on it was clear Brock and him arent on the same page. He is supposed to know the system, yet he doesnt know where to lineup at least once a game. I get that Watkins may be even worse in practice, but maybe just give him more snaps just so he feels he has a chance.

What they do well is build up UDFAs or late rounders off PS. They dont cost much and they will try to mold/fit in the system as much as possible because they are guys fighting for their livelihood just to stay on the roster or make it to the roster. Moseley, Tonges, Jennings, Al-Shaiir etc are guys who have developed into quality players this way. Brock obviously has been a flyer homerun. So theres a benefit of this rigid system, its just not with guys drafted high. When drafting high they need to focus on talent and see how to maximize their talent, not just replace a player or plug a hole in the rigid system in the same way.

The problem is, these UDFAs and late rounders have a ceiling and many dont make it, naturally. They are UDFAs and late rounders for a reason.

I do think less rigid system and drafting for talent and adjusting would make this team a lot better and give an offense another dimension. I just dont know if Kyle can do it. Sadly Trey Lance pick might have scarred him for life. Because it was an uncharacteristic pick for this FO and it failing might have set them the wrong way.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by CardinalGold:
+100. This is probably the most insightful post I've read on the zone.

Given it's been 9 years now in this regime, do you see the approach ever changing?

Thanks, Im flattered. No one ever has said this to me before. Prolly because Im a confrontational asshle. lol.

I dont really see it changing a lot. Their drafts have been better as of lately, but I think its also in part to just them realizing the roster is aging and there are no more budding stars, or even good solid players like Al-Shaiir. I want them to understand positional value and draft value. Look at how well Eagles draft. All they need a good coach and an oc (like Shanahan) and that team is contending for many years even with a very limited qb.

Just this season, look at Bourne. Good pickup initially, but as season went on it was clear Brock and him arent on the same page. He is supposed to know the system, yet he doesnt know where to lineup at least once a game. I get that Watkins may be even worse in practice, but maybe just give him more snaps just so he feels he has a chance.

What they do well is build up UDFAs or late rounders off PS. They dont cost much and they will try to mold/fit in the system as much as possible because they are guys fighting for their livelihood just to stay on the roster or make it to the roster. Moseley, Tonges, Jennings, Al-Shaiir etc are guys who have developed into quality players this way. Brock obviously has been a flyer homerun. So theres a benefit of this rigid system, its just not with guys drafted high. When drafting high they need to focus on talent and see how to maximize their talent, not just replace a player or plug a hole in the rigid system in the same way.

The problem is, these UDFAs and late rounders have a ceiling and many dont make it, naturally. They are UDFAs and late rounders for a reason.

I do think less rigid system and drafting for talent and adjusting would make this team a lot better and give an offense another dimension. I just dont know if Kyle can do it. Sadly Trey Lance pick might have scarred him for life. Because it was an uncharacteristic pick for this FO and it failing might have set them the wrong way.

More great stuff. Thanks.
It also seems like the success they have had due to Shanahan being a great coach and offensive mind who can squeeze wins out of a mid roster, that gives them false confidence that their personnel approach is working. Silver lining for me in having the two division rivals in the NFC championship game is that it highlights the issues we are talking about. These two teams have turned themselves around in a few years. If the Rams win another SB, that means they rebuilt after selling out their future to win the first one. That might finally force a change in the 49ers approach

Originally posted by CardinalGold:

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by CardinalGold:
+100. This is probably the most insightful post I've read on the zone.

Given it's been 9 years now in this regime, do you see the approach ever changing?

Thanks, Im flattered. No one ever has said this to me before. Prolly because Im a confrontational asshle. lol.

I dont really see it changing a lot. Their drafts have been better as of lately, but I think its also in part to just them realizing the roster is aging and there are no more budding stars, or even good solid players like Al-Shaiir. I want them to understand positional value and draft value. Look at how well Eagles draft. All they need a good coach and an oc (like Shanahan) and that team is contending for many years even with a very limited qb.

Just this season, look at Bourne. Good pickup initially, but as season went on it was clear Brock and him arent on the same page. He is supposed to know the system, yet he doesnt know where to lineup at least once a game. I get that Watkins may be even worse in practice, but maybe just give him more snaps just so he feels he has a chance.

What they do well is build up UDFAs or late rounders off PS. They dont cost much and they will try to mold/fit in the system as much as possible because they are guys fighting for their livelihood just to stay on the roster or make it to the roster. Moseley, Tonges, Jennings, Al-Shaiir etc are guys who have developed into quality players this way. Brock obviously has been a flyer homerun. So theres a benefit of this rigid system, its just not with guys drafted high. When drafting high they need to focus on talent and see how to maximize their talent, not just replace a player or plug a hole in the rigid system in the same way.

The problem is, these UDFAs and late rounders have a ceiling and many dont make it, naturally. They are UDFAs and late rounders for a reason.

I do think less rigid system and drafting for talent and adjusting would make this team a lot better and give an offense another dimension. I just dont know if Kyle can do it. Sadly Trey Lance pick might have scarred him for life. Because it was an uncharacteristic pick for this FO and it failing might have set them the wrong way.

More great stuff. Thanks.
It also seems like the success they have had due to Shanahan being a great coach and offensive mind who can squeeze wins out of a mid roster, that gives them false confidence that their personnel approach is working. Silver lining for me in having the two division rivals in the NFC championship game is that it highlights the issues we are talking about. These two teams have turned themselves around in a few years. If the Rams win another SB, that means they rebuilt after selling out their future to win the first one. That might finally force a change in the 49ers approach

Lynchb and Shanahan won't change their approach. Lynch is not a good GM and Shanahan does the same thing over and over with same players. His offense has become predictable and the league has evolved. Are we good enough to get into the playoffs, sure. However, good defenses already have him figured out

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by CardinalGold:
+100. This is probably the most insightful post I've read on the zone.

Given it's been 9 years now in this regime, do you see the approach ever changing?

Thanks, Im flattered. No one ever has said this to me before. Prolly because Im a confrontational asshle. lol.

I dont really see it changing a lot. Their drafts have been better as of lately, but I think its also in part to just them realizing the roster is aging and there are no more budding stars, or even good solid players like Al-Shaiir. I want them to understand positional value and draft value. Look at how well Eagles draft. All they need a good coach and an oc (like Shanahan) and that team is contending for many years even with a very limited qb.

Just this season, look at Bourne. Good pickup initially, but as season went on it was clear Brock and him arent on the same page. He is supposed to know the system, yet he doesnt know where to lineup at least once a game. I get that Watkins may be even worse in practice, but maybe just give him more snaps just so he feels he has a chance.

What they do well is build up UDFAs or late rounders off PS. They dont cost much and they will try to mold/fit in the system as much as possible because they are guys fighting for their livelihood just to stay on the roster or make it to the roster. Moseley, Tonges, Jennings, Al-Shaiir etc are guys who have developed into quality players this way. Brock obviously has been a flyer homerun. So theres a benefit of this rigid system, its just not with guys drafted high. When drafting high they need to focus on talent and see how to maximize their talent, not just replace a player or plug a hole in the rigid system in the same way.

The problem is, these UDFAs and late rounders have a ceiling and many dont make it, naturally. They are UDFAs and late rounders for a reason.

I do think less rigid system and drafting for talent and adjusting would make this team a lot better and give an offense another dimension. I just dont know if Kyle can do it. Sadly Trey Lance pick might have scarred him for life. Because it was an uncharacteristic pick for this FO and it failing might have set them the wrong way.

Seattle game is an example of what happens when mid talent goes up against well drafted players that are BPAs. Cannot compete against that with scheme alone.