49ers select Alfred Collins-DT-Texas with the 43rd pick in the 2025 NFL Draft

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
It's actually around 2.5m per year which shouldn't be the big deal that the teams are making it out to be.

If I'm thinking on the owner side where does it stop? Are we going to be guaranteeing all 11 picks eventually? It adds up if you are doing it every year, particularly when you consider about half of all draft picks are significant failures (fewer than 5 career starts for their drafting team), and the average career is less than 4 years.

My guess is there is only 1 team making this hold out happen at this point and that's the Seahawks. When they sign the first of their 2nd round picks, if it's to a non-fully guaranteed deal, the rest will sign quickly.

And to be clear, partially guaranteed deals are not uncommon so people saying they should just have injury exceptions or whatever are missing the point. What they want is FULLY guaranteed money, which, until this year, has been a thing only for first round picks.

Eventually ends in Tecmo Bowl!

Or owners just lock out the players and they blame ticket costs on players agents and eventually they agree on a structure. The nfl has it better than other leagues like the NBA and the extreme MLB.

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
It's actually around 2.5m per year which shouldn't be the big deal that the teams are making it out to be.

If I'm thinking on the owner side where does it stop? Are we going to be guaranteeing all 11 picks eventually? It adds up if you are doing it every year, particularly when you consider about half of all draft picks are significant failures (fewer than 5 career starts for their drafting team), and the average career is less than 4 years.

My guess is there is only 1 team making this hold out happen at this point and that's the Seahawks. When they sign the first of their 2nd round picks, if it's to a non-fully guaranteed deal, the rest will sign quickly.

And to be clear, partially guaranteed deals are not uncommon so people saying they should just have injury exceptions or whatever are missing the point. What they want is FULLY guaranteed money, which, until this year, has been a thing only for first round picks.

Yeah, I agree I think it needs to be fixed in the CBA, this is no good for anyone (especially if it lasts until TC) CBA should guarantee 2 years for 1st and 2nd's, 1 year 3rd & 4th and nothing lower than that. Maybe 1 year offset & injury guarantee on top of them.

Originally posted by mitpdub:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
It's actually around 2.5m per year which shouldn't be the big deal that the teams are making it out to be.

If I'm thinking on the owner side where does it stop? Are we going to be guaranteeing all 11 picks eventually? It adds up if you are doing it every year, particularly when you consider about half of all draft picks are significant failures (fewer than 5 career starts for their drafting team), and the average career is less than 4 years.

My guess is there is only 1 team making this hold out happen at this point and that's the Seahawks. When they sign the first of their 2nd round picks, if it's to a non-fully guaranteed deal, the rest will sign quickly.

And to be clear, partially guaranteed deals are not uncommon so people saying they should just have injury exceptions or whatever are missing the point. What they want is FULLY guaranteed money, which, until this year, has been a thing only for first round picks.

Eventually ends in Tecmo Bowl!

Or owners just lock out the players and they blame ticket costs on players agents and eventually they agree on a structure. The nfl has it better than other leagues like the NBA and the extreme MLB.

Not sure the NFL is better. NBA contracts are mostly fully guaranteed and players who outperform their smaller contracts get bonus money from the league. In the NBA the best players are paid a higher percentage of the cap and are more likely to stay with their team longer. The distinction is that the cap in the NBA is soft, unlike the NFL with it's hard cap.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
It's actually around 2.5m per year which shouldn't be the big deal that the teams are making it out to be.

If I'm thinking on the owner side where does it stop? Are we going to be guaranteeing all 11 picks eventually? It adds up if you are doing it every year, particularly when you consider about half of all draft picks are significant failures (fewer than 5 career starts for their drafting team), and the average career is less than 4 years.

My guess is there is only 1 team making this hold out happen at this point and that's the Seahawks. When they sign the first of their 2nd round picks, if it's to a non-fully guaranteed deal, the rest will sign quickly.

And to be clear, partially guaranteed deals are not uncommon so people saying they should just have injury exceptions or whatever are missing the point. What they want is FULLY guaranteed money, which, until this year, has been a thing only for first round picks.

Yeah, I agree I think it needs to be fixed in the CBA, this is no good for anyone (especially if it lasts until TC) CBA should guarantee 2 years for 1st and 2nd's, 1 year 3rd & 4th and nothing lower than that. Maybe 1 year offset & injury guarantee on top of them.

The CBA already includes fixed guaranteed money for injured players. I don't think the contract rules for rookies needs to change, there are a bunch of other things I'd change about the CBA though :)

The cap has climbed much more than the owners like, particularly relative to the damage to the bottom line 2020 represented. So there is going to be some pull back by the owners there. Also the use of void years has exploded to the point a quarter of the cap is connected to void years. The owners cash outlay to cap amount is upside down, and has been for years and they are going to want to claw some of that back.

RT and G pay has exploded more than any other position over the last decade with RT climbing 100% more than QB even.

What I would like is changes to roster size restrictions and discounts to the cap for veterans over 5 years of service.

To be a little on topic, I don't think it has cost the 49ers anything not having Collins yet since he wasn't going to be practicing because of injury anyhow. My concern with him is, if he hasn't signed his contract is he allowed to be dealing with 49ers trainers on his rehab and 49ers nutrition people no his diet? I know there are severe restrictions on coach access to players during this time, but I don't know about medical/training staff access rules.

If this guy isn't signed by TC, I think it will be the only drama going on during TC.

Why is he not signed? The draft numbers are just slotted on collective bargaining now. What is the problem? It should be a slam dunk to get this done.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Why is he not signed? The draft numbers are just slotted on collective bargaining now. What is the problem? It should be a slam dunk to get this done.

Because Cleveland and Houston who had the top picks in the 2nd round gave their draft picks a fully guaranteed contract. Now the rest of the 2nd rounders are expecting the same.

Originally posted by MinerForty-Niner:
Because Cleveland and Houston who had the top picks in the 2nd round gave their draft picks a fully guaranteed contract. Now the rest of the 2nd rounders are expecting the same.

To be clear, Houston did it first so Cleveland had even less option that the rest of the teams do.

So was he actually injured or was he not participating because of his contract?

Originally posted by braap49er:
So was he actually injured or was he not participating because of his contract?

He's got an ankle IIRC. So it was the injury keeping him out of OTAs.

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by braap49er:
So was he actually injured or was he not participating because of his contract?

He's got an ankle IIRC. So it was the injury keeping him out of OTAs.

I hope he's got two ankles .

If second round picks worked out more often, I think teams wouldn't mind guaranteeing their money but realistically - what, 90% of these guys will be cut before the contract is up or not really live up anywhere to expectations (maybe not all the players fault).

I get it from both sides, as some teams like to put in clauses that other teams don't to protect themselves more.

The nfl is trying to not let rookie contracts cause financial distress on the salary cap, as it did pre rookie scale contracts. The players are looking for security, I would be too.

I imagine there will be a middle agreement where a players first two years are guaranteed and if they make the roster in year 3 or 4, it becomes guaranteed?

Originally posted by tankle104:
If second round picks worked out more often, I think teams wouldn't mind guaranteeing their money but realistically - what, 90% of these guys will be cut before the contract is up or not really live up anywhere to expectations (maybe not all the players fault).

I get it from both sides, as some teams like to put in clauses that other teams don't to protect themselves more.

The nfl is trying to not let rookie contracts cause financial distress on the salary cap, as it did pre rookie scale contracts. The players are looking for security, I would be too.

I imagine there will be a middle agreement where a players first two years are guaranteed and if they make the roster in year 3 or 4, it becomes guaranteed?

Those partially guaranteed contracts are standard now. The entire sticking point is they want every penny guaranteed on day 1. That is a problem not just because it takes some flexibility away from the team, but it also means the team needs to put a percentage of all guaranteed contracts aside when they are signed so it actually costs teams in more actual money it also costs them in opportunity money.

Every team wants to pay out every dollar to every pick because they want every pick to be a superstar ... they just don't want to pay the failures any longer than they have to.

I'm sorry but stuff like this makes me automatically not like a player. Don't care if "that's how it is" these days. The CBA needs amendment to protect against this. If true, I hope our O-linemen double-team pancake him on every rep.

Originally posted by raywm3:
I'm sorry but stuff like this makes me automatically not like a player. Don't care if "that's how it is" these days. The CBA needs amendment to protect against this. If true, I hope our O-linemen double-team pancake him on every rep.

This isn't about the player. This is about the agents and future players. There is a reason 30 out of 32 2nd round picks are unsigned and it has nothing to do with Alfred Collins.

Fans really gotta check their feelings about these things. I'd understand if he was the last pick holding out but there is a clear reason for what's happening.