OTAs/Training Camp 2025

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
He said 4th round grade at the time. And I don't think Kyle would have drafted him were it not for griese and the other scout who who pushed for him. So I agree with you that Kyle is full of s**t. He was also full of s**t when he said it was Lance all along, only later to state it was between him and Mac. I've warned you not to trust anything Kyle says. Now you know

I just don't believe any of the after the fact stuff from any HC or GM. Proof is in the pudding. If you think he played at a 1st/2nd rd level (which I don't believe for a second and if Kyle thinks that, it's a problem with his QB evaluation because he most certainly did not) then it's a no brainer to take that freaking QB before the last pick in the draft….regardless of where you sit at QB prior.

If our QB coach loved him that much he would have been taken in the 4th where the supposed draft grade was. Instead they drafted multiple players that haven't amounted to s**t or were hurt before him. They lucked into Brock and we don't even know if it's an actual long term thing. Not even close.

I don't trust any HC man. They have bo reason to be truthful, especially when it comes to the draft. Again proof is in the pudding. If kyle really wanted Mac, he would be a 49er right now. He wanted Lance and he's a 49er right now. For me I was a fields guy, but totally got why Lance made sense. Unfortunately they f**ked up his development and he's dealt with freak injuries.

The goal of the draft is not to pay what the player is worth, but to take your target with the lowest pick you judge he will still be available, based on what you expect other teams to do. People say we should have taken Montana in the first round, but because of his "arm talent", Walsh correctly assessed that he'd be available in the third. Kyle and John correctly thought Brock would be available with the last pick. Kudos to them.

Brock then Did exceed expectations in training, and even more so in games, and that does rob Trey's opportunity to develop on this win now team. If Trey can't beat out Brock This Year, we can not exercise his 5th year option. We can keep him for a fourth year to try again to displace Brock, but if he doesn't, Trey will be happier elsewhere. Anything can happen. Certainly injuries. You doubt Brock's ability, and I do not. Time will tell.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
He isn't going anywhere this year. We are talking about next off season if he sits on the bench all this season.

And what's his worth then? day 3 swaps? I mean that isn't saving face with moving years of 1sts or really retaining any lost value. That ship has sailed.

at that point he's got years under kyle with this offense. We don't really save money given that we will have to replace his position (money saved overall is minimal).

The only reason I can see people wanting him gone is purely based of their emotions towards him.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

This is the way I see the QB situation. Assuming Trey beats Darnold out for QB2. If Brock continues to play exceptionally well and takes this team deep into the playoffs again. Trey will become trade bait next off season. If Brock, god forbid, gets injured again or struggles for a stretch, Trey will get another opportunity. Depending on how Trey performs and how far he takes this team, he will either be given back the QB1 or there will be a true QB competition next off season.

Finally some sense. People getting waaaay ahead of themselves and THIS season (games) hasn't even started yet lol

@Both

Yep it's as simple as this.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Why would Trey want to sign an extension if Brock has solidified himself as QB1?

It would have to be one of the scenarios we discussed where that would make sense.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Absolutely that can happen. More often than not it all comes out in the wash though. Especially at certain positions.

No one can look at Brock's film in college and come away with the idea that he was playing at a 1st/2nd rd level. Simply not true.

also doesn't mean he couldn't prove people wrong, have a chip on his shoulder or whatever. We've seen late rd guys become great. It's rare, especially at QB but it's happened.

My point is I don't believe kyle's comments about Brock. You don't call him Mullens 2.0, say he's played at a 1st/2nd rd level then drafted him with the last pick in the draft. Proof is in the pudding, regardless of what is said.

I agree with the first 3 paragraphs. As for the last paragraph, I'll only add that when I went back and read the entire article I got the impression that KS didn't actually spend any real time evaluating Brock that season. Instead it was the grade placed on him by the personnel department.

that's all assumptions based on how I read the words the second time.

Originally posted by BOI49er:
The goal of the draft is not to pay what the player is worth, but to take your target with the lowest pick you judge he will still be available, based on what you expect other teams to do. People say we should have taken Montana in the first round, but because of his "arm talent", Walsh correctly assessed that he'd be available in the third. Kyle and John correctly thought Brock would be available with the last pick. Kudos to them.

Brock then Did exceed expectations in training, and even more so in games, and that does rob Trey's opportunity to develop on this win now team. If Trey can't beat out Brock This Year, we can not exercise his 5th year option. We can keep him for a fourth year to try again to displace Brock, but if he doesn't, Trey will be happier elsewhere. Anything can happen. Certainly injuries. You doubt Brock's ability, and I do not. Time will tell.

Yeah you're right kyle has been dead on with not overdrafting players that he likes lol. I can give you a laundry list of players that were regarded as over drafts. But sure sure the one time he thinks a QB is a 1st/2nd rd player, he waits until the last pick in the draft to get him. Come on dude.

he then goes on to resign Jimmy that yr as well. Instead of letting his new man Brock whom he thought was so great get like 3 snaps per practice all though the off-season.

They lucked into it plain and simple. Brock deserves most of the credit, then the sick roster than the HC/GM built around him. Regardless of what anyone wants to believe there is still the possibility of Brock turning into a pumpkin and regressing to the mean with some stats.

Originally posted by Shorteous:
I agree with the first 3 paragraphs. As for the last paragraph, I'll only add that when I went back and read the entire article I got the impression that KS didn't actually spend any real time evaluating Brock that season. Instead it was the grade placed on him by the personnel department.

that's all assumptions based on how I read the words the second time.

I'm sure that's part of it. End of the day Kyle has the final say in things like drafting a QB to run his offense. We all remember he wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing they didn't grab CJ Beathard on day 2

I think it's a bit of a fib on his part after the fact. Which is fine all HC/GMs do it. All that matters is he's on the team…anyone saying he played at a 1st/2nd level is straight up lying though lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Shorteous:
I agree with the first 3 paragraphs. As for the last paragraph, I'll only add that when I went back and read the entire article I got the impression that KS didn't actually spend any real time evaluating Brock that season. Instead it was the grade placed on him by the personnel department.

that's all assumptions based on how I read the words the second time.

I'm sure that's part of it. End of the day Kyle has the final say in things like drafting a QB to run his offense. We all remember he wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing they didn't grab CJ Beathard on day 2

I think it's a bit of a fib on his part after the fact. Which is fine all HC/GMs do it. All that matters is he's on the team…anyone saying he played at a 1st/2nd level is straight up lying though lol.

For once I actually agree with you. I've also reached a point where I don't believe a word out of their mouths anymore. Starting to think Kyle doesn't really know how to evaluate a qb despite being called a guru. And I love Kyle and Lynch but there's enough head scratchers to wonder about.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
from Kyle about Brock's draft grade and film

"We were studying college quarterbacks [this offseason], and I know we're not taking any, but I just like to watch the first-round guys just so I can stack them up," Shanahan said. "In February, I went back and watched Brock's last game versus Clemson. I'm watching guys, trying to evaluate where they'll go [in the 2023 draft], and I thought, 'After watching these guys, let me go watch Brock again, just from college — not the NFL — just to compare.'

"I was like, 'Well, s***. He looks like a first- or second-round guy in college,'" Shanahan said. "We put him in the fourth round, I thought he'd still be there in the sixth, then we took him in the seventh. … Now it's easy to see. It's not like it just happened. He's always been a good player."

And yet didn't draft him until the last pick in the draft

I don't think Kyle did any homework on Brock pre draft. It was all klint kubiak & Griese. Plus at the time, they were looking at the future 100% through Lance - so I doubt drafting a QB in the mid rounds was a major concern.

makes sense, if I'm the front office and we just spent a fortune on a young QB. I'm not exactly itchin to draft another young qb in the mid rounds - have bigger needs.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
He isn't going anywhere this year. We are talking about next off season if he sits on the bench all this season.

And what's his worth then? day 3 swaps? I mean that isn't saving face with moving years of 1sts or really retaining any lost value. That ship has sailed.

at that point he's got years under kyle with this offense. We don't really save money given that we will have to replace his position (money saved overall is minimal).

The only reason I can see people wanting him gone is purely based of their emotions towards him.

I don't just look at things from a fan's perspective. I try and see things from the coaches view as well as the player's view. Tell me what incentive would Trey have to sit 2 years on the bench knowing that the organization chose the other guy?

As far as emotion. You are one of the most emotionally driven posters on this forum. So you throwing that out there is a bit weird to me. The fact that you keep bringing up Brock's draft status and completely ignoring the statistics he put up and how the offense was averaging more ppg than any other 7 game stretch in Shanahan's tenure seems very emotional to me. You have drawn your line in the sand and don't even want to give Brock a chance to see if he can replicate his success.

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Absolutely that can happen. More often than not it all comes out in the wash though. Especially at certain positions.

No one can look at Brock's film in college and come away with the idea that he was playing at a 1st/2nd rd level. Simply not true.

also doesn't mean he couldn't prove people wrong, have a chip on his shoulder or whatever. We've seen late rd guys become great. It's rare, especially at QB but it's happened.

My point is I don't believe kyle's comments about Brock. You don't call him Mullens 2.0, say he's played at a 1st/2nd rd level then drafted him with the last pick in the draft. Proof is in the pudding, regardless of what is said.

I agree with the first 3 paragraphs. As for the last paragraph, I'll only add that when I went back and read the entire article I got the impression that KS didn't actually spend any real time evaluating Brock that season. Instead it was the grade placed on him by the personnel department.

that's all assumptions based on how I read the words the second time.

I think if he had the arm strength/velocity that he has now, when he was in college, his film can be looked at that way.

his arm strength was below average in college at like 51MPH, that's a concern at this level. You want 55+ entering the NFL. Most prospects don't increase their MPH 5+ in a few months before their rookie year. So once he cracked that above average level with arm strength, I think his film changes. You see how he plays, leads, reads the field etc. he does a lot of really great things in college but his arm just wasn't enough to convince anyone to take him higher in the draft

i don't think having a cannon is a big deal, it helps but not much, but there is a large difference between below average and above average arm strength/velocity.

once you watch his film with the understanding that his arm was going to dramatically improve, his film in college becomes a lot more attractive.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
He isn't going anywhere this year. We are talking about next off season if he sits on the bench all this season.

And what's his worth then? day 3 swaps? I mean that isn't saving face with moving years of 1sts or really retaining any lost value. That ship has sailed.

at that point he's got years under kyle with this offense. We don't really save money given that we will have to replace his position (money saved overall is minimal).

The only reason I can see people wanting him gone is purely based of their emotions towards him.

First of all, you are notoriuously known as one of the most emotional driven posters in this forum.
Second, I can think of many logical reasons why it may make sense to trade Trey end of this season. People have bring in good logical points in this forum.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by BOI49er:
The goal of the draft is not to pay what the player is worth, but to take your target with the lowest pick you judge he will still be available, based on what you expect other teams to do. People say we should have taken Montana in the first round, but because of his "arm talent", Walsh correctly assessed that he'd be available in the third. Kyle and John correctly thought Brock would be available with the last pick. Kudos to them.

Brock then Did exceed expectations in training, and even more so in games, and that does rob Trey's opportunity to develop on this win now team. If Trey can't beat out Brock This Year, we can not exercise his 5th year option. We can keep him for a fourth year to try again to displace Brock, but if he doesn't, Trey will be happier elsewhere. Anything can happen. Certainly injuries. You doubt Brock's ability, and I do not. Time will tell.

Yeah you're right kyle has been dead on with not overdrafting players that he likes lol. I can give you a laundry list of players that were regarded as over drafts. But sure sure the one time he thinks a QB is a 1st/2nd rd player, he waits until the last pick in the draft to get him. Come on dude.

he then goes on to resign Jimmy that yr as well. Instead of letting his new man Brock whom he thought was so great get like 3 snaps per practice all though the off-season.

They lucked into it plain and simple. Brock deserves most of the credit, then the sick roster than the HC/GM built around him. Regardless of what anyone wants to believe there is still the possibility of Brock turning into a pumpkin and regressing to the mean with some stats.

I never said they never overdraft. Straw man. I said the Goal, and you assess where other's might draft them.

I said Brock did exceed his expectations in training and in games.

Brock essentially lead the league at QB during the games he played, in his rookie year, and with "like 3 snaps per practice". That is phenomenal. How can you not be impressed with that? Now he's in year two, where the norm is to make your biggest jump. Brock has proven he has one hell of an aptitude for this offense. That is a fact. Sure, you can say it's still possible he'll step on it. There's just no evidence, and with his greater familiarity now, great team, confidence, leadership, and headwork, it just doesn't seem likely.

Best to get on board, because Brock is our only hope for 6 this year.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Absolutely that can happen. More often than not it all comes out in the wash though. Especially at certain positions.

No one can look at Brock's film in college and come away with the idea that he was playing at a 1st/2nd rd level. Simply not true.

also doesn't mean he couldn't prove people wrong, have a chip on his shoulder or whatever. We've seen late rd guys become great. It's rare, especially at QB but it's happened.

My point is I don't believe kyle's comments about Brock. You don't call him Mullens 2.0, say he's played at a 1st/2nd rd level then drafted him with the last pick in the draft. Proof is in the pudding, regardless of what is said.

I agree with the first 3 paragraphs. As for the last paragraph, I'll only add that when I went back and read the entire article I got the impression that KS didn't actually spend any real time evaluating Brock that season. Instead it was the grade placed on him by the personnel department.

that's all assumptions based on how I read the words the second time.

I think if he had the arm strength/velocity that he has now, when he was in college, his film can be looked at that way.

his arm strength was below average in college at like 51MPH, that's a concern at this level. You want 55+ entering the NFL. Most prospects don't increase their MPH 5+ in a few months before their rookie year. So once he cracked that above average level with arm strength, I think his film changes. You see how he plays, leads, reads the field etc. he does a lot of really great things in college but his arm just wasn't enough to convince anyone to take him higher in the draft

i don't think having a cannon is a big deal, it helps but not much, but there is a large difference between below average and above average arm strength/velocity.

once you watch his film with the understanding that his arm was going to dramatically improve, his film in college becomes a lot more attractive.

Ya great point!

Originally posted by tankle104:
I don't think Kyle did any homework on Brock pre draft. It was all klint kubiak & Griese. Plus at the time, they were looking at the future 100% through Lance - so I doubt drafting a QB in the mid rounds was a major concern.

makes sense, if I'm the front office and we just spent a fortune on a young QB. I'm not exactly itchin to draft another young qb in the mid rounds - have bigger needs.

So they took a DT currently dealing with a torn ACL, a DII IOL from Fordham and a DB from Toledo over him? Come on guys. Let's keep s**t real,

anyone with two sets of eyes that had a chance to watch Brock in college knows he wasn't playing at that 1st/2nd level. Also people are acting like every other single NFL organization is stupid as well lol.

end of the day they valued him as a late day 3 prospect like every other organization. Brock came in and did everything in his power to prove them wrong. It's great for him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I don't think Kyle did any homework on Brock pre draft. It was all klint kubiak & Griese. Plus at the time, they were looking at the future 100% through Lance - so I doubt drafting a QB in the mid rounds was a major concern.

makes sense, if I'm the front office and we just spent a fortune on a young QB. I'm not exactly itchin to draft another young qb in the mid rounds - have bigger needs.

So they took a DT currently dealing with a torn ACL, a DII IOL from Fordham and a DB from Toledo over him? Come on guys. Let's keep s**t real,

anyone with two sets of eyes that had a chance to watch Brock in college knows he wasn't playing at that 1st/2nd level. Also people are acting like every other single NFL organization is stupid as well lol.

end of the day they valued him as a late day 3 prospect like every other organization. Brock came in and did everything in his power to prove them wrong. It's great for him.

And also great for our team.