OTAs/Training Camp 2025

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:
I don't know if serious or not. But if this team spent 20+ million on a back up rather than surrounding a rookie 7th round contract with the most talent to play with that would be embarrassing.

I have seen this suggestion at least a half dozen times now, it assumes the guy is backup QB, and goes on to say we should pay him QB1 dollars, anyway. Blows my mind everytime..

It's the first I've seen it and yeah we know this is todays NFL championship window. Cheap rookie contract and surround that contract with expensive talent.

People keep saying we should pick up the 5th year, at $20m or so, I think that's where I am seeing it. They say we should do that, even in a QB2 role. To me that is for QB1s, only. For Jones and Love, those guys are in fact QB1s, and they aren't even getting the 5th year..

Yeah I'd rather 20 mil goes to a RT or Trent's eventual replacement

20M we can use to extend players like Aiyuk and Hufanga.

17 million in dead money is gone by the end of this year, and the cap next year (if it goes up) by 1% (assuming the cap is 200 million) is 2 milion dollars, and (I defer to AB81) but it usually goes up WAY more than that in a typical year.

Doesn't really matter. The key was the incremental difference. We can use that money for a star or two.

We're talking 2024 or 2025, by then the cap would be *way more* than the 2023 cap. Knowing Paarag, he''ll frontload Bosa's contract, and keep in mind Trent's and Greenlaw's contracts were frontloaded too. Point being, 17 million in dead cap space is gone by next year, and if the Bosa contract is frontloaded like I think it will be, there's a good chance you can get Two elite QB's for the price of one. I'd take that deal in a heartbeat.

I don't care about back loading the deals or being finally free in the dead cap related to certain players. If the Front Office finds an extra $20M, we can add a star or two. Rather than using the money towards QB2.

That's fine. But again, injuries to QB1 pretty much ends your season. All your cap savings goes up in smoke if your QB1 goes down. At least with Trey backing up Brock, you have a shot at the playoffs - again assuming Trey continues to improve.

Adding a left tackle or a DE doesn't compare to losing a starting QB. Go ahead and skimp on the QB position and if the injuries occure, great you've got a star or two - but good luck in making the playoffs.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
This is the way I see the QB situation. Assuming Trey beats Darnold out for QB2. If Brock continues to play exceptionally well and takes this team deep into the playoffs again. Trey will become trade bait next off season. If Brock, god forbid, gets injured again or struggles for a stretch, Trey will get another opportunity. Depending on how Trey performs and how far he takes this team, he will either be given back the QB1 or there will be a true QB competition next off season.

Why trade bait for next year? Trey's 5th year option is in (I think) 2024. You can trade him after next year. He might be even more valuable with another year of development (again assuming his current improvement trajectory continues.)

There is a good chance the $20M salary will kill the remaining trade value, then the team will be stuck paying a backup QB $20M.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
This is the way I see the QB situation. Assuming Trey beats Darnold out for QB2. If Brock continues to play exceptionally well and takes this team deep into the playoffs again. Trey will become trade bait next off season. If Brock, god forbid, gets injured again or struggles for a stretch, Trey will get another opportunity. Depending on how Trey performs and how far he takes this team, he will either be given back the QB1 or there will be a true QB competition next off season.

Why trade bait for next year? Trey's 5th year option is in (I think) 2024. You can trade him after next year. He might be even more valuable with another year of development (again assuming his current improvement trajectory continues.)

There is a good chance the $20M salary will kill the remaining trade value, then the team will be stuck paying a backup QB $20M.

Other teams don't pay a back up QB $20M. Why? Because they think that is crazy. This is a good "does it make sense" exercise.

Hey the first team depth chart has Trey as QB2 even though it's completely unofficial. So that should at least make the Trey people happy FWIW.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
This is the way I see the QB situation. Assuming Trey beats Darnold out for QB2. If Brock continues to play exceptionally well and takes this team deep into the playoffs again. Trey will become trade bait next off season. If Brock, god forbid, gets injured again or struggles for a stretch, Trey will get another opportunity. Depending on how Trey performs and how far he takes this team, he will either be given back the QB1 or there will be a true QB competition next off season.

Why trade bait for next year? Trey's 5th year option is in (I think) 2024. You can trade him after next year. He might be even more valuable with another year of development (again assuming his current improvement trajectory continues.)

Cause his value to other teams would be higher if they know they control him longer. So in turn we get more value in theory

If Brock is truly Shanny's guy long term, I don't see us prolonging the inevitable.

Well, I think Kyle's almost there - but untill after the pre-season, I think he'll be sure that (absent something incredible from Trey - and it still can happen) Brock is QB1.

The reason I'd like Kyle to keep Trey as long as possible is because he is still so RAW, and I think more development time will tell us what we have in Trey. Secondly, he's going to be great as QB depth with his ability to run *and* his current passing ability (which is getting better and better). I think there is a decent chance Trey will stay with Kyle, simply to get more coaching. Drew Brees and Steve Young had great careers once they had good coaching.

Trey needs playing time to truly develop. It would be wise of Trey to demand a trade if there is no chance of competing for the starting job by next season. It would also be wrong of Kyle and John to hold Trey hostage if they know he'll never compete to be QB1 here because they have determined that Brock is in fact the guy. Plus that 20+ million could go toward beefing the O line up to better protect their FQB.

Of course, if Trey does decide to stay another year oustide of his rookie contract - it would have to be in his best interests for him to do so. If he plays his cards smart and use Kyle's coaching as leverage - to garner more $$$ from a bottom feeding team, good for him. At least the 49ers tried to keep him.

Again, Trey has to ultimately weigh the $$$ he gets from a bottom feeding team vs continuing to refine his game here with Kyle. Most likely, Kyle will have to make it worth Trey's while to stay with the team. That will involve a significant amount of cap space. Good news - Brock is only costing a million for the duration of Brock's contract. Keeping Trey after his rookie contract ends, isn't a non-zero probabiltty.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
This is the way I see the QB situation. Assuming Trey beats Darnold out for QB2. If Brock continues to play exceptionally well and takes this team deep into the playoffs again. Trey will become trade bait next off season. If Brock, god forbid, gets injured again or struggles for a stretch, Trey will get another opportunity. Depending on how Trey performs and how far he takes this team, he will either be given back the QB1 or there will be a true QB competition next off season.

Why trade bait for next year? Trey's 5th year option is in (I think) 2024. You can trade him after next year. He might be even more valuable with another year of development (again assuming his current improvement trajectory continues.)

There is a good chance the $20M salary will kill the remaining trade value, then the team will be stuck paying a backup QB $20M.

Other teams don't pay a back up QB $20M. Why? Because they think that is crazy. This is a good "does it make sense" exercise.

Other teams don't have a big super bowl window like the 49ers.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
This is the way I see the QB situation. Assuming Trey beats Darnold out for QB2. If Brock continues to play exceptionally well and takes this team deep into the playoffs again. Trey will become trade bait next off season. If Brock, god forbid, gets injured again or struggles for a stretch, Trey will get another opportunity. Depending on how Trey performs and how far he takes this team, he will either be given back the QB1 or there will be a true QB competition next off season.

Why trade bait for next year? Trey's 5th year option is in (I think) 2024. You can trade him after next year. He might be even more valuable with another year of development (again assuming his current improvement trajectory continues.)

There is a good chance the $20M salary will kill the remaining trade value, then the team will be stuck paying a backup QB $20M.

Other teams don't pay a back up QB $20M. Why? Because they think that is crazy. This is a good "does it make sense" exercise.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
This is the way I see the QB situation. Assuming Trey beats Darnold out for QB2. If Brock continues to play exceptionally well and takes this team deep into the playoffs again. Trey will become trade bait next off season. If Brock, god forbid, gets injured again or struggles for a stretch, Trey will get another opportunity. Depending on how Trey performs and how far he takes this team, he will either be given back the QB1 or there will be a true QB competition next off season.

Why trade bait for next year? Trey's 5th year option is in (I think) 2024. You can trade him after next year. He might be even more valuable with another year of development (again assuming his current improvement trajectory continues.)

There is a good chance the $20M salary will kill the remaining trade value, then the team will be stuck paying a backup QB $20M.

Other teams don't pay a back up QB $20M. Why? Because they think that is crazy. This is a good "does it make sense" exercise.

20M is the option year value, that can be renegotiated if both are willing.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
This is the way I see the QB situation. Assuming Trey beats Darnold out for QB2. If Brock continues to play exceptionally well and takes this team deep into the playoffs again. Trey will become trade bait next off season. If Brock, god forbid, gets injured again or struggles for a stretch, Trey will get another opportunity. Depending on how Trey performs and how far he takes this team, he will either be given back the QB1 or there will be a true QB competition next off season.

Why trade bait for next year? Trey's 5th year option is in (I think) 2024. You can trade him after next year. He might be even more valuable with another year of development (again assuming his current improvement trajectory continues.)

Cause his value to other teams would be higher if they know they control him longer. So in turn we get more value in theory

If Brock is truly Shanny's guy long term, I don't see us prolonging the inevitable.

Well, I think Kyle's almost there - but untill after the pre-season, I think he'll be sure that (absent something incredible from Trey - and it still can happen) Brock is QB1.

The reason I'd like Kyle to keep Trey as long as possible is because he is still so RAW, and I think more development time will tell us what we have in Trey. Secondly, he's going to be great as QB depth with his ability to run *and* his current passing ability (which is getting better and better). I think there is a decent chance Trey will stay with Kyle, simply to get more coaching. Drew Brees and Steve Young had great careers once they had good coaching.

Trey needs playing time to truly develop. It would be wise of Trey to demand a trade if there is no chance of competing for the starting job by next season. It would also be wrong of Kyle and John to hold Trey hostage if they know he'll never compete to be QB1 here because they have determined that Brock is in fact the guy. Plus that 20+ million could go toward beefing the O line up to better protect their FQB.

Of course, if Trey does decide to stay another year oustide of his rookie contract - it would have to be in his best interests for him to do so. If he plays his cards smart and use Kyle's coaching as leverage - to garner more $$$ from a bottom feeding team, good for him. At least the 49ers tried to keep him.

Again, Trey has to ultimately weigh the $$$ he gets from a bottom feeding team vs continuing to refine his game here with Kyle. Most likely, Kyle will have to make it worth Trey's while to stay with the team. That will involve a significant amount of cap space. Good news - Brock is only costing a million for the duration of Brock's contract. Keeping Trey after his rookie contract ends, isn't a non-zero probabiltty.

If he gets virtually no playing time through 5 years, he isn't getting $$$. More like $ or at the most $$. He would want out of here as quickly as possible so he can put something on film so he can try and build up his market value. That isn't happening on the bench.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
If he gets virtually no playing time through 5 years, he isn't getting $$$. More like $ or at the most $$. He would want out of here as quickly as possible so he can put something on film so he can try and build up his market value. That isn't happening on the bench.

One can make a compelling argument like 2/3rd of the NFC would love to sign Trey for his potential. But it won't be a big contract

Originally posted by YACBros85:
If he gets virtually no playing time through 5 years, he isn't getting $$$. More like $ or at the most $$. He would want out of here as quickly as possible so he can put something on film so he can try and build up his market value. That isn't happening on the bench.

This. And if you start to game this out, the type of teams that would take a flyer on him (knowing that he needed real playing time to develop) would likely be towards the bottom of the NFC and have opportunities to find a fresh guy out of college with much more playing* experience.

It's really hard to believe a team is going to jump out and sign a guy for anything other than a 'prove it' deal (and prove it fast) when they haven't played significant football in 5-6 years. Nobody is going to look at Trey's potential in '24, or '25, like the 49ers did in 2021. Things just don't work this way in the league.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
This is the way I see the QB situation. Assuming Trey beats Darnold out for QB2. If Brock continues to play exceptionally well and takes this team deep into the playoffs again. Trey will become trade bait next off season. If Brock, god forbid, gets injured again or struggles for a stretch, Trey will get another opportunity. Depending on how Trey performs and how far he takes this team, he will either be given back the QB1 or there will be a true QB competition next off season.

Why trade bait for next year? Trey's 5th year option is in (I think) 2024. You can trade him after next year. He might be even more valuable with another year of development (again assuming his current improvement trajectory continues.)

There is a good chance the $20M salary will kill the remaining trade value, then the team will be stuck paying a backup QB $20M.

Other teams don't pay a back up QB $20M. Why? Because they think that is crazy. This is a good "does it make sense" exercise.

20M is the option year value, that can be renegotiated if both are willing.

It is a team option. Trey can just sit back and see if the team exercise the 5th year option. If not, the team can either keep him and let him hit FA after 2024, or trade him before then.

Anything can happen, but I don't see why Trey would negotiate the 5th year option as a QB2 and not looking to hit FA in the end of the 2024 season.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Not ONCE did I understand the damn Latu pick, I just swear they drafted him because they needed a TE. Dude didn't do a damn thing in Bama

What da?

5-102-1 stat line, in the NC, let's not judge from his first TC, hasn't even played a preseason yet.. some guys, even with talent like a Danny Gray, you need a year to figure out what is going on.

ya he's one of the more explosive TE coming out those are the TE you take because of the upside and the draft capitol is nothing

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

This is the way I see the QB situation. Assuming Trey beats Darnold out for QB2. If Brock continues to play exceptionally well and takes this team deep into the playoffs again. Trey will become trade bait next off season. If Brock, god forbid, gets injured again or struggles for a stretch, Trey will get another opportunity. Depending on how Trey performs and how far he takes this team, he will either be given back the QB1 or there will be a true QB competition next off season.

Why trade bait for next year? Trey's 5th year option is in (I think) 2024. You can trade him after next year. He might be even more valuable with another year of development (again assuming his current improvement trajectory continues.)

Cause his value to other teams would be higher if they know they control him longer. So in turn we get more value in theory

If Brock is truly Shanny's guy long term, I don't see us prolonging the inevitable.

I think the opposite, reason being is, if you think about it, would trading him help our chances at a Super Bowl? Would our depth be better or worse at the position? What real benefit would that be to us this year? Would we get great value? Is it worth the risk?

Right now it sounds like Sam has had a meh camp overall, starting decently and then fading. His NFL track record is not good thus far. He doesn't know the offense as well as Lance and is not the caliber of dual threat that he is either.

If we're being fair and honest, the upside, trustworthiness to make the right decisions based on understanding of the system, the ability to force 11-on-11 in the run game, and the ability to make plays off schedule when things break down all favor Trey.

It just seems like the most sensible idea is to have Trey as plan B and Sam (or Allen if something unforeseen happens) as plan C.

Most likely we would get poor value for any trade right now while simultaneously damaging our our strong QB depth. That's two pretty major negatives.

All that said, we'll see if anything changes during the preseason. I would be very surprised if it did, but you never know until these guys play.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I think the opposite, reason being is, if you think about it, would trading him help our chances at a Super Bowl? Would our depth be better or worse at the position? What real benefit would that be to us this year? Would we get great value? Is it worth the risk?

Right now it sounds like Sam has had a meh camp overall, starting decently and then fading. His NFL track record is not good thus far. He doesn't know the offense as well as Lance and is not the caliber of dual threat that he is either.

If we're being fair and honest, the upside, trustworthiness to make the right decisions based on understanding of the system, the ability to force 11-on-11 in the run game, and the ability to make plays off schedule when things break down all favor Trey.

It just seems like the most sensible idea is to have Trey as plan B and Sam (or Allen if something unforeseen happens) as plan C.

Most likely we would get poor value for any trade right now while simultaneously damaging our our strong QB depth. That's two pretty major negatives.

All that said, we'll see if anything changes during the preseason. I would be very surprised if it did, but you never know until these guys play.

We're talking more about next season, if/when Brock has solidified himself as QB1 going forward (through his play this season).

But just for fun, the fact that Trey and Sam haven't clearly separated from each other in competition makes one or the other expendable in a possible trade.. and replaceable by another FA backup/fringe starter in the future.