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Originally posted by thl408:
If a pass is intercepted, then it's intercepted. It cannot be argued since that was the result, that makes it objective. How is that still subjective?
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by thl408:
If a pass is intercepted, then it's intercepted. It cannot be argued since that was the result, that makes it objective. How is that still subjective?
I mean if a WR drops a pass on the money and someone INTS it the QB gets the INT, but he's not responsible for it.
Depends what you're debating I guess.
Originally posted by 49ers81:
Oh, God. Please don't tell me we are back to this again. When they become actual turnovers then there might be something to talk about. Until then they're just incomplete passes.
As a rookie dealing with NFL defenses for the first time there is certainly going to be a learning curve. One can only hope that it doesn't happen often enough to make people believe that it is some sort of legitimate form of discussion
Originally posted by thl408:
I'm talking about objective stats. Stats where the result cannot be argued. In the scenario you described above, that is an INT. You cannot argue that. There was a pass and it resulted in a change of possession because the defense caught the pass.
Turnover worthy plays is subjective. I said that the SEA safety dropped a pass that hit him in the hands and I called that a TWP. Someone else can argue and say it was a very hard pass to catch and that is shouldn't be a TWP. There is room for argument - subjective.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Rookie-on-rookie crime as Raiders LB Luke Masterson (and teammate Tyler Hall) break up 49ers rookie Brock Purdy's 3rd down pass in the red zone.
— Seven Rounds in Heaven (@7RoundsInHeaven) January 1, 2023
Masterson, an undrafted rookie out of Wake Forest, has played over 50% of snaps for the Raiders defense the last four weeks. pic.twitter.com/9ZIlUnZi2S
This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.
Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.
when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.
typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
🤡
tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half
The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)
He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.
Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?
Pretty sure PFF tracks that.
Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.
Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.
Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.
Nice thank you. That is actually REALLY encouraging. Take away just one of those plays and the percentage drops to 3.5%. Take away two and it drops to 2.8%. For a rookie who's playing pretty aggressively, 4.3% is not too bad.
how does that stat work...possible int? Possible int plus actual int?
4.3 and 2.7 does not appear to account that Brock has 3 actual turnovers Mahomes has 5 actual turnovers since the Miami game.
But a turnover doesn't necessarily mean a turnover worthy play. Remember the INT that bounced off Jennings' hands as he tipped it up into the air? That's a turnover, but it's not a turnover worthy play. (I think)
So a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover?
So anything can happen in a turnover worthy play like a non-turnover and a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover.....
Why should we care about this invented stat?
Do they at least list the actual plays they are tallying to put eyeballs on it?
It's a stat that attempts to remove good luck and bad luck from the raw stat. The raw stat is Brock threw an INT. But it was dumb luck because Jennings tipped it up into the air after the pass hit Jennings in the hands. Brock did not get a TWP on this play.
Remember the pass that the SEA safety dropped after it hit him in the hands? That was a bad pass that did not result in an INT. But the point is that it was a bad throw and the QB deserves to be knocked for it, but the raw INT stat won't show it. There is subjectivity to TWP because some plays are on the edge and it's up to the statistician to make the call.
The ball to Jennings was behind him, it was not a good throw......
We don't know if someone was suppose to be here or there on a throw...knocking the QB that puts a ball exactly where it is suppose to be but a WR gets the rout wrong does not remove luck from the equation.
We don't know what plays the QB is suppose to be knocked for.
Yeah it's a subjective stat. I already mentioned above why it's there. Extreme case, if a QB finishes the season with 5 INTs (low), but his TWP% is highest in the league, it tells us that the QB is fortunate defenders are dropping INTs, and that he needs to take better care of the ball because sooner or later his luck will run out.
All stats are subjective. INT's are dropped, TD catches are dropped, TD catches called back on penalties, perfect passes are dropped by receivers, horrible passes are caught by receivers, etc. Hell, even wins and losses can come down to poor officiating.
?. I see raw stats as objective (INTs, TDs thrown, comp%) - the ones you see in a boxscore.
But not really because of the reasons I explained in the post you responded to.
If a pass is intercepted, then it's intercepted. It cannot be argued since that was the result, that makes it objective. How is that still subjective?
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by thl408:
I'm talking about objective stats. Stats where the result cannot be argued. In the scenario you described above, that is an INT. You cannot argue that. There was a pass and it resulted in a change of possession because the defense caught the pass.
Turnover worthy plays is subjective. I said that the SEA safety dropped a pass that hit him in the hands and I called that a TWP. Someone else can argue and say it was a very hard pass to catch and that is shouldn't be a TWP. There is room for argument - subjective.
Gotcha. Like I said all depends what you're debating I guess. Even INTs can be subjective depending on the context of the discussion.
Originally posted by WINiner:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Rookie-on-rookie crime as Raiders LB Luke Masterson (and teammate Tyler Hall) break up 49ers rookie Brock Purdy's 3rd down pass in the red zone.
— Seven Rounds in Heaven (@7RoundsInHeaven) January 1, 2023
Masterson, an undrafted rookie out of Wake Forest, has played over 50% of snaps for the Raiders defense the last four weeks. pic.twitter.com/9ZIlUnZi2S
This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.
Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.
when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.
typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
🤡
tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half
The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)
He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.
Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?
Pretty sure PFF tracks that.
Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.
Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.
Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.
Nice thank you. That is actually REALLY encouraging. Take away just one of those plays and the percentage drops to 3.5%. Take away two and it drops to 2.8%. For a rookie who's playing pretty aggressively, 4.3% is not too bad.
how does that stat work...possible int? Possible int plus actual int?
4.3 and 2.7 does not appear to account that Brock has 3 actual turnovers Mahomes has 5 actual turnovers since the Miami game.
But a turnover doesn't necessarily mean a turnover worthy play. Remember the INT that bounced off Jennings' hands as he tipped it up into the air? That's a turnover, but it's not a turnover worthy play. (I think)
So a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover?
So anything can happen in a turnover worthy play like a non-turnover and a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover.....
Why should we care about this invented stat?
Do they at least list the actual plays they are tallying to put eyeballs on it?
It's a stat that attempts to remove good luck and bad luck from the raw stat. The raw stat is Brock threw an INT. But it was dumb luck because Jennings tipped it up into the air after the pass hit Jennings in the hands. Brock did not get a TWP on this play.
Remember the pass that the SEA safety dropped after it hit him in the hands? That was a bad pass that did not result in an INT. But the point is that it was a bad throw and the QB deserves to be knocked for it, but the raw INT stat won't show it. There is subjectivity to TWP because some plays are on the edge and it's up to the statistician to make the call.
The ball to Jennings was behind him, it was not a good throw......
We don't know if someone was suppose to be here or there on a throw...knocking the QB that puts a ball exactly where it is suppose to be but a WR gets the rout wrong does not remove luck from the equation.
We don't know what plays the QB is suppose to be knocked for.
Yeah it's a subjective stat. I already mentioned above why it's there. Extreme case, if a QB finishes the season with 5 INTs (low), but his TWP% is highest in the league, it tells us that the QB is fortunate defenders are dropping INTs, and that he needs to take better care of the ball because sooner or later his luck will run out.
All stats are subjective. INT's are dropped, TD catches are dropped, TD catches called back on penalties, perfect passes are dropped by receivers, horrible passes are caught by receivers, etc. Hell, even wins and losses can come down to poor officiating.
?. I see raw stats as objective (INTs, TDs thrown, comp%) - the ones you see in a boxscore.
But not really because of the reasons I explained in the post you responded to.
If a pass is intercepted, then it's intercepted. It cannot be argued since that was the result, that makes it objective. How is that still subjective?
There's context as to the cause for the interception though, which makes it subjective.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by thl408:
I'm talking about objective stats. Stats where the result cannot be argued. In the scenario you described above, that is an INT. You cannot argue that. There was a pass and it resulted in a change of possession because the defense caught the pass.
Turnover worthy plays is subjective. I said that the SEA safety dropped a pass that hit him in the hands and I called that a TWP. Someone else can argue and say it was a very hard pass to catch and that is shouldn't be a TWP. There is room for argument - subjective.
Gotcha. Like I said all depends what you're debating I guess. Even INTs can be subjective depending on the context of the discussion.
Yeah, and there's a subjective stat for that "Turnover Worthy Plays".
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Rookie-on-rookie crime as Raiders LB Luke Masterson (and teammate Tyler Hall) break up 49ers rookie Brock Purdy's 3rd down pass in the red zone.
— Seven Rounds in Heaven (@7RoundsInHeaven) January 1, 2023
Masterson, an undrafted rookie out of Wake Forest, has played over 50% of snaps for the Raiders defense the last four weeks. pic.twitter.com/9ZIlUnZi2S
This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.
Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.
when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.
typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
🤡
tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half
The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)
He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.
Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?
Pretty sure PFF tracks that.
Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.
Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.
Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.
Nice thank you. That is actually REALLY encouraging. Take away just one of those plays and the percentage drops to 3.5%. Take away two and it drops to 2.8%. For a rookie who's playing pretty aggressively, 4.3% is not too bad.
how does that stat work...possible int? Possible int plus actual int?
4.3 and 2.7 does not appear to account that Brock has 3 actual turnovers Mahomes has 5 actual turnovers since the Miami game.
But a turnover doesn't necessarily mean a turnover worthy play. Remember the INT that bounced off Jennings' hands as he tipped it up into the air? That's a turnover, but it's not a turnover worthy play. (I think)
So a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover?
So anything can happen in a turnover worthy play like a non-turnover and a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover.....
Why should we care about this invented stat?
Do they at least list the actual plays they are tallying to put eyeballs on it?
It's a stat that attempts to remove good luck and bad luck from the raw stat. The raw stat is Brock threw an INT. But it was dumb luck because Jennings tipped it up into the air after the pass hit Jennings in the hands. Brock did not get a TWP on this play.
Remember the pass that the SEA safety dropped after it hit him in the hands? That was a bad pass that did not result in an INT. But the point is that it was a bad throw and the QB deserves to be knocked for it, but the raw INT stat won't show it. There is subjectivity to TWP because some plays are on the edge and it's up to the statistician to make the call.
The ball to Jennings was behind him, it was not a good throw......
We don't know if someone was suppose to be here or there on a throw...knocking the QB that puts a ball exactly where it is suppose to be but a WR gets the rout wrong does not remove luck from the equation.
We don't know what plays the QB is suppose to be knocked for.
Yeah it's a subjective stat. I already mentioned above why it's there. Extreme case, if a QB finishes the season with 5 INTs (low), but his TWP% is highest in the league, it tells us that the QB is fortunate defenders are dropping INTs, and that he needs to take better care of the ball because sooner or later his luck will run out.
All stats are subjective. INT's are dropped, TD catches are dropped, TD catches called back on penalties, perfect passes are dropped by receivers, horrible passes are caught by receivers, etc. Hell, even wins and losses can come down to poor officiating.
?. I see raw stats as objective (INTs, TDs thrown, comp%) - the ones you see in a boxscore.
But not really because of the reasons I explained in the post you responded to.
If a pass is intercepted, then it's intercepted. It cannot be argued since that was the result, that makes it objective. How is that still subjective?
Originally posted by FunkyChicken:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by thl408:
I'm talking about objective stats. Stats where the result cannot be argued. In the scenario you described above, that is an INT. You cannot argue that. There was a pass and it resulted in a change of possession because the defense caught the pass.
Turnover worthy plays is subjective. I said that the SEA safety dropped a pass that hit him in the hands and I called that a TWP. Someone else can argue and say it was a very hard pass to catch and that is shouldn't be a TWP. There is room for argument - subjective.
Gotcha. Like I said all depends what you're debating I guess. Even INTs can be subjective depending on the context of the discussion.
Yeah, and there's a subjective stat for that "Turnover Worthy Plays".
Thl you are in the right here. Don't let anyone try to gaslight you into believing there is no such thing as an objective reality. It's a path to insanity.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Rookie-on-rookie crime as Raiders LB Luke Masterson (and teammate Tyler Hall) break up 49ers rookie Brock Purdy's 3rd down pass in the red zone.
— Seven Rounds in Heaven (@7RoundsInHeaven) January 1, 2023
Masterson, an undrafted rookie out of Wake Forest, has played over 50% of snaps for the Raiders defense the last four weeks. pic.twitter.com/9ZIlUnZi2S
This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.
Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.
when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.
typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
🤡
tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half
The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)
He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.
Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?
Pretty sure PFF tracks that.
Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.
Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.
Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.
Nice thank you. That is actually REALLY encouraging. Take away just one of those plays and the percentage drops to 3.5%. Take away two and it drops to 2.8%. For a rookie who's playing pretty aggressively, 4.3% is not too bad.
how does that stat work...possible int? Possible int plus actual int?
4.3 and 2.7 does not appear to account that Brock has 3 actual turnovers Mahomes has 5 actual turnovers since the Miami game.
But a turnover doesn't necessarily mean a turnover worthy play. Remember the INT that bounced off Jennings' hands as he tipped it up into the air? That's a turnover, but it's not a turnover worthy play. (I think)
So a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover?
So anything can happen in a turnover worthy play like a non-turnover and a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover.....
Why should we care about this invented stat?
Do they at least list the actual plays they are tallying to put eyeballs on it?
It's a stat that attempts to remove good luck and bad luck from the raw stat. The raw stat is Brock threw an INT. But it was dumb luck because Jennings tipped it up into the air after the pass hit Jennings in the hands. Brock did not get a TWP on this play.
Remember the pass that the SEA safety dropped after it hit him in the hands? That was a bad pass that did not result in an INT. But the point is that it was a bad throw and the QB deserves to be knocked for it, but the raw INT stat won't show it. There is subjectivity to TWP because some plays are on the edge and it's up to the statistician to make the call.
The ball to Jennings was behind him, it was not a good throw......
We don't know if someone was suppose to be here or there on a throw...knocking the QB that puts a ball exactly where it is suppose to be but a WR gets the rout wrong does not remove luck from the equation.
We don't know what plays the QB is suppose to be knocked for.
Yeah it's a subjective stat. I already mentioned above why it's there. Extreme case, if a QB finishes the season with 5 INTs (low), but his TWP% is highest in the league, it tells us that the QB is fortunate defenders are dropping INTs, and that he needs to take better care of the ball because sooner or later his luck will run out.
All stats are subjective. INT's are dropped, TD catches are dropped, TD catches called back on penalties, perfect passes are dropped by receivers, horrible passes are caught by receivers, etc. Hell, even wins and losses can come down to poor officiating.
?. I see raw stats as objective (INTs, TDs thrown, comp%) - the ones you see in a boxscore.
But not really because of the reasons I explained in the post you responded to.
If a pass is intercepted, then it's intercepted. It cannot be argued since that was the result, that makes it objective. How is that still subjective?
Take the 45 yard Adams catch in the raiders game. It was ruled a catch. We all know that ball hit the ground but there wasn't a camera angle that gave the officials indisputable evidence to overrule the original call. He gets credited with a catch for 45 yards. You are saying that his stats are objective because of how that particular play was ruled. But its subjective because we can
explain why it wasn't a catch because neither one of his hands or arms were underneath that ball. Just because a stat is counted on the score sheet doesn't mean its not subjective and up for debate.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Waterbear:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Rookie-on-rookie crime as Raiders LB Luke Masterson (and teammate Tyler Hall) break up 49ers rookie Brock Purdy's 3rd down pass in the red zone.
— Seven Rounds in Heaven (@7RoundsInHeaven) January 1, 2023
Masterson, an undrafted rookie out of Wake Forest, has played over 50% of snaps for the Raiders defense the last four weeks. pic.twitter.com/9ZIlUnZi2S
This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.
Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.
when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.
typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
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tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half
The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)
He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.
Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?
Pretty sure PFF tracks that.
Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.
Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.
Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.
Thanks for the numbers. I think playmaking QBs should be allowed more leeway when it comes to putting the ball in harm's way. A pure game manager type of QB should have a low amount of turnover worthy plays (TWP). QBs that push the envelope and create big plays for the offense will understandably have a higher number of TWP. Awesome QBs have low TWP and make many big plays for their offense.
I am of the thought that when dealing with accumulative stats than yes, I agree with you. A QB that throws the ball more should have a higher number of TWP's. But when turning it into a percentage rate than no, I do not agree with you. The better QB's tend to have a lower rate than below average QB's. Josh Allen this season has turned the ball over at a really high rate and it has cost his team some wins this season. It probably cost them the number 1 seed and it could end up costing them in the playoffs as well.
That percentage doesn't take into account the type of throws. QBs that push the ball downfield are at a higher risk of putting the ball in danger as opposed to the QB that trends toward the safe play. That needs to be taken into account. If two QBs have the same percentage, but one rarely pushes the ball downfield in an attempt to make a big play, that QB isn't doing a very good job of taking care of the ball, even though their % is identical.
What about the short congested middle of the field that takes perfect timing, a quick release and pin point accuracy? As we all should know with Jimmy, they are just as much a risk for turnovers.
Actually after second thought. Jimmy wasn't asked to throw the ball 40+ times a game and I would argue that his passes were much more important. Where he was tasked with throwing the ball was much more risky than throwing the deep ball down the field where there are naturally less defenders.
So I would say it is much more impressive that Jimmy's % was in the same company as Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Take the 45 yard Adams catch in the raiders game. It was ruled a catch. We all know that ball hit the ground but there wasn't a camera angle that gave the officials indisputable evidence to overrule the original call. He gets credited with a catch for 45 yards. You are saying that his stats are objective because of how that particular play was ruled. But its subjective because we can
explain why it wasn't a catch because neither one of his hands or arms were underneath that ball. Just because a stat is counted on the score sheet doesn't mean its not subjective and up for debate.
Originally posted by boast:
a bunch of pages arguing "almost INTs"
only in the Romper Room™ and by many of the same people. lol.
