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QB Brock Purdy Thread

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QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
We all saw that silly claim by you two. Funny how the goal posts moved and you won't touch it now save for standard deflecting.

It's all good though. Glad you two now understand how unfair that criticism was (no matter the QB).

Unfair to expect the QB to read the defense?

But you are are right. It's all good now. We actually have a very productive offense with a QB who can make all the throws, has good pocket presence, and can actually move.

Ragnow > Donald. Never forget.

Except the same exact Texas route, of course. LOL
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:

This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.

Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.

when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head

You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.

typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us

🤡

tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half

The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)

He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.

Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?

Pretty sure PFF tracks that.

Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.

Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.

Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.

Nice thank you. That is actually REALLY encouraging. Take away just one of those plays and the percentage drops to 3.5%. Take away two and it drops to 2.8%. For a rookie who's playing pretty aggressively, 4.3% is not too bad.

how does that stat work...possible int? Possible int plus actual int?

4.3 and 2.7 does not appear to account that Brock has 3 actual turnovers Mahomes has 5 actual turnovers since the Miami game.

But a turnover doesn't necessarily mean a turnover worthy play. Remember the INT that bounced off Jennings' hands as he tipped it up into the air? That's a turnover, but it's not a turnover worthy play. (I think)

So a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover?

So anything can happen in a turnover worthy play like a non-turnover and a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover.....

Why should we care about this invented stat?

Do they at least list the actual plays they are tallying to put eyeballs on it?

It's a stat that attempts to remove good luck and bad luck from the raw stat. The raw stat is Brock threw an INT. But it was dumb luck because Jennings tipped it up into the air after the pass hit Jennings in the hands. Brock did not get a TWP on this play.
Remember the pass that the SEA safety dropped after it hit him in the hands? That was a bad pass that did not result in an INT. But the point is that it was a bad throw and the QB deserves to be knocked for it, but the raw INT stat won't show it. There is subjectivity to TWP because some plays are on the edge and it's up to the statistician to make the call.

The ball to Jennings was behind him, it was not a good throw......

We don't know if someone was suppose to be here or there on a throw...knocking the QB that puts a ball exactly where it is suppose to be but a WR gets the rout wrong does not remove luck from the equation.

We don't know what plays the QB is suppose to be knocked for.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,251
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:

This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.

Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.

when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head

You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.

typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us

🤡

tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half

The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)

He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.

Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?

Pretty sure PFF tracks that.

Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.

Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.

Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.

Nice thank you. That is actually REALLY encouraging. Take away just one of those plays and the percentage drops to 3.5%. Take away two and it drops to 2.8%. For a rookie who's playing pretty aggressively, 4.3% is not too bad.

how does that stat work...possible int? Possible int plus actual int?

4.3 and 2.7 does not appear to account that Brock has 3 actual turnovers Mahomes has 5 actual turnovers since the Miami game.

But a turnover doesn't necessarily mean a turnover worthy play. Remember the INT that bounced off Jennings' hands as he tipped it up into the air? That's a turnover, but it's not a turnover worthy play. (I think)

So a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover?

So anything can happen in a turnover worthy play like a non-turnover and a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover.....

Why should we care about this invented stat?

Do they at least list the actual plays they are tallying to put eyeballs on it?

It's a stat that attempts to remove good luck and bad luck from the raw stat. The raw stat is Brock threw an INT. But it was dumb luck because Jennings tipped it up into the air after the pass hit Jennings in the hands. Brock did not get a TWP on this play.
Remember the pass that the SEA safety dropped after it hit him in the hands? That was a bad pass that did not result in an INT. But the point is that it was a bad throw and the QB deserves to be knocked for it, but the raw INT stat won't show it. There is subjectivity to TWP because some plays are on the edge and it's up to the statistician to make the call.

The ball to Jennings was behind him, it was not a good throw......

We don't know if someone was suppose to be here or there on a throw...knocking the QB that puts a ball exactly where it is suppose to be but a WR gets the rout wrong does not remove luck from the equation.

We don't know what plays the QB is suppose to be knocked for.

Yeah it's a subjective stat. I already mentioned above why it's there. Extreme case, if a QB finishes the season with 5 INTs (low), but his TWP% is highest in the league, it tells us that the QB is fortunate defenders are dropping INTs, and that he needs to take better care of the ball because sooner or later his luck will run out.
Originally posted by TheWooLick:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:

This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.

Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.

when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head

You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.

typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us

🤡

tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half

The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)

He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.

Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?
Official or not you don't just ignore it.

Meh, the results tell the whole tale.

Huh? Not all results are numbers, though. Sooooo......not sure where u're going with that one right off the bat.

But beyond that, results is synonymous with conclusion. The body, or complete story, tells the whole tale. Not the final result.
[ Edited by random49er on Jan 3, 2023 at 11:51 AM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:

This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.

Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.

when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head

You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.

typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us

🤡

tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half

The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)

He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.

Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?

Pretty sure PFF tracks that.

Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.

Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.

Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.

Nice thank you. That is actually REALLY encouraging. Take away just one of those plays and the percentage drops to 3.5%. Take away two and it drops to 2.8%. For a rookie who's playing pretty aggressively, 4.3% is not too bad.

how does that stat work...possible int? Possible int plus actual int?

4.3 and 2.7 does not appear to account that Brock has 3 actual turnovers Mahomes has 5 actual turnovers since the Miami game.

But a turnover doesn't necessarily mean a turnover worthy play. Remember the INT that bounced off Jennings' hands as he tipped it up into the air? That's a turnover, but it's not a turnover worthy play. (I think)

So a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover?

So anything can happen in a turnover worthy play like a non-turnover and a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover.....

Why should we care about this invented stat?

Do they at least list the actual plays they are tallying to put eyeballs on it?

It's a stat that attempts to remove good luck and bad luck from the raw stat. The raw stat is Brock threw an INT. But it was dumb luck because Jennings tipped it up into the air after the pass hit Jennings in the hands. Brock did not get a TWP on this play.
Remember the pass that the SEA safety dropped after it hit him in the hands? That was a bad pass that did not result in an INT. But the point is that it was a bad throw and the QB deserves to be knocked for it, but the raw INT stat won't show it. There is subjectivity to TWP because some plays are on the edge and it's up to the statistician to make the call.

The ball to Jennings was behind him, it was not a good throw......

We don't know if someone was suppose to be here or there on a throw...knocking the QB that puts a ball exactly where it is suppose to be but a WR gets the rout wrong does not remove luck from the equation.

We don't know what plays the QB is suppose to be knocked for.

Yeah it's a subjective stat. I already mentioned above why it's there. Extreme case, if a QB finishes the season with 5 INTs (low), but his TWP% is highest in the league, it tells us that the QB is fortunate defenders are dropping INTs, and that he needs to take better care of the ball because sooner or later his luck will run out.

All stats are subjective. INT's are dropped, TD catches are dropped, TD catches called back on penalties, perfect passes are dropped by receivers, horrible passes are caught by receivers, etc. Hell, even wins and losses can come down to poor officiating.
[ Edited by YACBros85 on Jan 3, 2023 at 11:53 AM ]
subjective @ varying degrees, yes. he probably means subjective by comparison.
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,251
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:

This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.

Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.

when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head

You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.

typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us

🤡

tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half

The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)

He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.

Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?

Pretty sure PFF tracks that.

Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.

Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.

Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.

Nice thank you. That is actually REALLY encouraging. Take away just one of those plays and the percentage drops to 3.5%. Take away two and it drops to 2.8%. For a rookie who's playing pretty aggressively, 4.3% is not too bad.

how does that stat work...possible int? Possible int plus actual int?

4.3 and 2.7 does not appear to account that Brock has 3 actual turnovers Mahomes has 5 actual turnovers since the Miami game.

But a turnover doesn't necessarily mean a turnover worthy play. Remember the INT that bounced off Jennings' hands as he tipped it up into the air? That's a turnover, but it's not a turnover worthy play. (I think)

So a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover?

So anything can happen in a turnover worthy play like a non-turnover and a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover.....

Why should we care about this invented stat?

Do they at least list the actual plays they are tallying to put eyeballs on it?

It's a stat that attempts to remove good luck and bad luck from the raw stat. The raw stat is Brock threw an INT. But it was dumb luck because Jennings tipped it up into the air after the pass hit Jennings in the hands. Brock did not get a TWP on this play.
Remember the pass that the SEA safety dropped after it hit him in the hands? That was a bad pass that did not result in an INT. But the point is that it was a bad throw and the QB deserves to be knocked for it, but the raw INT stat won't show it. There is subjectivity to TWP because some plays are on the edge and it's up to the statistician to make the call.

The ball to Jennings was behind him, it was not a good throw......

We don't know if someone was suppose to be here or there on a throw...knocking the QB that puts a ball exactly where it is suppose to be but a WR gets the rout wrong does not remove luck from the equation.

We don't know what plays the QB is suppose to be knocked for.

Yeah it's a subjective stat. I already mentioned above why it's there. Extreme case, if a QB finishes the season with 5 INTs (low), but his TWP% is highest in the league, it tells us that the QB is fortunate defenders are dropping INTs, and that he needs to take better care of the ball because sooner or later his luck will run out.

All stats are subjective. INT's are dropped, TD catches are dropped, TD catches called back on penalties, perfect passes are dropped by receivers, horrible passes are caught by receivers, etc. Hell, even wins and losses can come down to poor officiating.

?. I see raw stats as objective (INTs, TDs thrown, comp%) - the ones you see in a boxscore.
Originally posted by random49er:
subjective @ varying degrees, yes. he probably means subjective by comparison.

I think what is more subjective are the fans because they choose to accept or disregard certain stats depending on whether it is in line with their opinion of a player or not.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:

This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.

Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.

when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head

You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.

typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us

🤡

tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half

The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)

He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.

Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?

Pretty sure PFF tracks that.

Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.

Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.

Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.

Nice thank you. That is actually REALLY encouraging. Take away just one of those plays and the percentage drops to 3.5%. Take away two and it drops to 2.8%. For a rookie who's playing pretty aggressively, 4.3% is not too bad.

how does that stat work...possible int? Possible int plus actual int?

4.3 and 2.7 does not appear to account that Brock has 3 actual turnovers Mahomes has 5 actual turnovers since the Miami game.

But a turnover doesn't necessarily mean a turnover worthy play. Remember the INT that bounced off Jennings' hands as he tipped it up into the air? That's a turnover, but it's not a turnover worthy play. (I think)

So a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover?

So anything can happen in a turnover worthy play like a non-turnover and a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover.....

Why should we care about this invented stat?

Do they at least list the actual plays they are tallying to put eyeballs on it?

It's a stat that attempts to remove good luck and bad luck from the raw stat. The raw stat is Brock threw an INT. But it was dumb luck because Jennings tipped it up into the air after the pass hit Jennings in the hands. Brock did not get a TWP on this play.
Remember the pass that the SEA safety dropped after it hit him in the hands? That was a bad pass that did not result in an INT. But the point is that it was a bad throw and the QB deserves to be knocked for it, but the raw INT stat won't show it. There is subjectivity to TWP because some plays are on the edge and it's up to the statistician to make the call.

The ball to Jennings was behind him, it was not a good throw......

We don't know if someone was suppose to be here or there on a throw...knocking the QB that puts a ball exactly where it is suppose to be but a WR gets the rout wrong does not remove luck from the equation.

We don't know what plays the QB is suppose to be knocked for.

Yeah it's a subjective stat. I already mentioned above why it's there. Extreme case, if a QB finishes the season with 5 INTs (low), but his TWP% is highest in the league, it tells us that the QB is fortunate defenders are dropping INTs, and that he needs to take better care of the ball because sooner or later his luck will run out.

All stats are subjective. INT's are dropped, TD catches are dropped, TD catches called back on penalties, perfect passes are dropped by receivers, horrible passes are caught by receivers, etc. Hell, even wins and losses can come down to poor officiating.

?. I see raw stats as objective (INTs, TDs thrown, comp%) - the ones you see in a boxscore.

But not really because of the reasons I explained in the post you responded to.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by random49er:
subjective @ varying degrees, yes. he probably means subjective by comparison.

I think what is more subjective are the fans because they choose to accept or disregard certain stats depending on whether it is in line with their opinion of a player or not.

I love when fans disregard certain stats, so long as there is a legit memo attached that denotes why. Sensible, and adds to the discussion.
[ Edited by random49er on Jan 3, 2023 at 12:09 PM ]
Our boy's odds of becoming offensive rookie of the year doubled over the weekend. With enough public support and one more great game, we could actually have the rookie of the year here. Unreal and awesome!
[ Edited by justjim77 on Jan 3, 2023 at 12:18 PM ]
  • thl408
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 33,251
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:

This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.

Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.

when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head

You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.

typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us

🤡

tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half

The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)

He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.

Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?

Pretty sure PFF tracks that.

Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.

Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.

Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.

Nice thank you. That is actually REALLY encouraging. Take away just one of those plays and the percentage drops to 3.5%. Take away two and it drops to 2.8%. For a rookie who's playing pretty aggressively, 4.3% is not too bad.

how does that stat work...possible int? Possible int plus actual int?

4.3 and 2.7 does not appear to account that Brock has 3 actual turnovers Mahomes has 5 actual turnovers since the Miami game.

But a turnover doesn't necessarily mean a turnover worthy play. Remember the INT that bounced off Jennings' hands as he tipped it up into the air? That's a turnover, but it's not a turnover worthy play. (I think)

So a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover?

So anything can happen in a turnover worthy play like a non-turnover and a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover.....

Why should we care about this invented stat?

Do they at least list the actual plays they are tallying to put eyeballs on it?

It's a stat that attempts to remove good luck and bad luck from the raw stat. The raw stat is Brock threw an INT. But it was dumb luck because Jennings tipped it up into the air after the pass hit Jennings in the hands. Brock did not get a TWP on this play.
Remember the pass that the SEA safety dropped after it hit him in the hands? That was a bad pass that did not result in an INT. But the point is that it was a bad throw and the QB deserves to be knocked for it, but the raw INT stat won't show it. There is subjectivity to TWP because some plays are on the edge and it's up to the statistician to make the call.

The ball to Jennings was behind him, it was not a good throw......

We don't know if someone was suppose to be here or there on a throw...knocking the QB that puts a ball exactly where it is suppose to be but a WR gets the rout wrong does not remove luck from the equation.

We don't know what plays the QB is suppose to be knocked for.

Yeah it's a subjective stat. I already mentioned above why it's there. Extreme case, if a QB finishes the season with 5 INTs (low), but his TWP% is highest in the league, it tells us that the QB is fortunate defenders are dropping INTs, and that he needs to take better care of the ball because sooner or later his luck will run out.

All stats are subjective. INT's are dropped, TD catches are dropped, TD catches called back on penalties, perfect passes are dropped by receivers, horrible passes are caught by receivers, etc. Hell, even wins and losses can come down to poor officiating.

?. I see raw stats as objective (INTs, TDs thrown, comp%) - the ones you see in a boxscore.

But not really because of the reasons I explained in the post you responded to.

If a pass is intercepted, then it's intercepted. It cannot be argued since that was the result, that makes it objective. How is that still subjective?
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by random49er:
subjective @ varying degrees, yes. he probably means subjective by comparison.

I think what is more subjective are the fans because they choose to accept or disregard certain stats depending on whether it is in line with their opinion of a player or not.

Agreed. You can always grab a stat to prop up or put down a player/team. I see PFF do it al the time. Just input a ton of variables and some random player all of a sudden looks good.

data is part of the debate, adding quantitative data is helpful, but it can be subjective/misleading as s**t too.
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by ritz126:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:

This one I thought George should've had. Purdy threaded and it was there for George, hit him in the chest.

Yeah, but Purdy needed to throw that just a split second faster.

when people ask "how much more room for improvement does he have?" - those kind of plays come to mind for me because he'll get better with reps. The anticipation, accuracy, etc. he already does a fine job with those but he has so much more room for improvement when it comes to just operating this offense - think 2016 falcons.
after the first two TDs he started holding the ball a little longer, not running the bootleg fast enough.. i hope it's not getting to his head

You have to remember that there is more than enough film on him for defenses to game plan and try to make him uncomfortable - also, he is most likely seeing new coverages and his "go-to" plays are probably getting unique formations. I think it's just part of him being a rookie.

typically around games 6-12 or so are when rookie qb start to hit a little bump, I'm confident he will work through it. He obviously knows what he is doing - it's all about in-game adjustments.
that doesn't excuse his jogging bootlegs. especially the one that could've separated his shoulder and needed Aiyuk take away an INT. There were other times he locked on to players and ignoring the other routes. He just needs to take what the defense gives us

🤡

tbf i was worried he hit that rookie wall in the first half. that wasnt a great first half (even witht he two TD) he was averaging 3 yards per attemmpt and had like 30 yards. My concerns were alleviated in the 2nd half

The only thing i m worried about is some throws we are getting a bit lucky some of those throws could easily be picks (last few games there has been more than a few batted balls that go straight threw the air)

He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.

Is this an official stat somewhere or just your opinion/observation?

Pretty sure PFF tracks that.

Yes. PFF tracks them. Fans are free to take them with a grain of salt. But someone brought the subject up and I brought up objective data that correlates with their statement.

Gotcha. How does Purdy fair compared to other QB's during that stretch or for the season? I don't have PFF access otherwise I'd go look myself.

Jimmy was at a rate of 2.9%. Josh Allen is at 5.4%. Patrick Mahomes is at 2.7%. Tom Brady is at 2.8%. Jalen Hurts is at 2.1%. Tua is at 4.8%. Purdy is at 4.3%.

Nice thank you. That is actually REALLY encouraging. Take away just one of those plays and the percentage drops to 3.5%. Take away two and it drops to 2.8%. For a rookie who's playing pretty aggressively, 4.3% is not too bad.

how does that stat work...possible int? Possible int plus actual int?

4.3 and 2.7 does not appear to account that Brock has 3 actual turnovers Mahomes has 5 actual turnovers since the Miami game.

But a turnover doesn't necessarily mean a turnover worthy play. Remember the INT that bounced off Jennings' hands as he tipped it up into the air? That's a turnover, but it's not a turnover worthy play. (I think)

So a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover?

So anything can happen in a turnover worthy play like a non-turnover and a non-turnover worthy play can result in a turnover.....

Why should we care about this invented stat?

Do they at least list the actual plays they are tallying to put eyeballs on it?

It's a stat that attempts to remove good luck and bad luck from the raw stat. The raw stat is Brock threw an INT. But it was dumb luck because Jennings tipped it up into the air after the pass hit Jennings in the hands. Brock did not get a TWP on this play.
Remember the pass that the SEA safety dropped after it hit him in the hands? That was a bad pass that did not result in an INT. But the point is that it was a bad throw and the QB deserves to be knocked for it, but the raw INT stat won't show it. There is subjectivity to TWP because some plays are on the edge and it's up to the statistician to make the call.

The ball to Jennings was behind him, it was not a good throw......

We don't know if someone was suppose to be here or there on a throw...knocking the QB that puts a ball exactly where it is suppose to be but a WR gets the rout wrong does not remove luck from the equation.

We don't know what plays the QB is suppose to be knocked for.

Yeah it's a subjective stat. I already mentioned above why it's there. Extreme case, if a QB finishes the season with 5 INTs (low), but his TWP% is highest in the league, it tells us that the QB is fortunate defenders are dropping INTs, and that he needs to take better care of the ball because sooner or later his luck will run out.

All stats are subjective. INT's are dropped, TD catches are dropped, TD catches called back on penalties, perfect passes are dropped by receivers, horrible passes are caught by receivers, etc. Hell, even wins and losses can come down to poor officiating.

?. I see raw stats as objective (INTs, TDs thrown, comp%) - the ones you see in a boxscore.

But not really because of the reasons I explained in the post you responded to.

If a pass is intercepted, then it's intercepted. It cannot be argued since that was the result, that makes it objective. How is that still subjective?

The objective fact is that it was intercepted. The subjective side is from the varying opinions of interpreting why it was intercepted. IE a bad pass, a mistimed pass, a bad catch, a bad route run by the receiver, a late receiver and so on.
Originally posted by YACBros85:
He has had 6 turnover worthy plays in his last 141 attempts. That his a pretty high rate.

Oh, God. Please don't tell me we are back to this again. When they become actual turnovers then there might be something to talk about. Until then they're just incomplete passes.

As a rookie dealing with NFL defenses for the first time there is certainly going to be a learning curve. One can only hope that it doesn't happen often enough to make people believe that it is some sort of legitimate form of discussion
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