QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
For the bolded, I was talking about the 2021 Eagles, and who the coaches had to choose between to start at quarterback. It was a young prospect in Hurts, or a fringe starter in Minshew. The Eagles were not expected to contend for a Super Bowl and the consequences for getting the decision wrong, or prioritizing Hurts' development, were lower. It was also not a CLEAR choice between the two for who would win more games in 2021.

As for the underlined, again you are misstating what I said. I did not state SF was winning a Super Bowl with Jimmy. I stated they had proven to be a Super Bowl contending team with Jimmy. That it was POSSIBLE they could win the Super Bowl with Jimmy. I think Jimmy is an average QB. Prioritizing the development of Lance, possibly at the cost of a Super Bowl contending team, given they had a CLEAR better player at the position at the time, is a completely different situation than the one the Eagles were in.

For reference at the start of the 21 season the 49ers were +1400 to win the Super Bowl. The Eagles were +10000. Very different outlooks.

They made their choice when they traded Wentz in favor of Hurts.

Again guess who's only lost one game when Hurts was playing this yr…guess who didn't win a SB last yr regardless of odds…guess who moved up for a young QB that they KNEW needed to play and develop and also had no ambitions of tanking seasons. This narrative that you can't draft a QB and play him if your team is good is f**king dumb. They weren't replacing Tom Brady

Originally posted by NYniner85:
They made their choice when they traded Wentz in favor of Hurts.

Again guess who's only lost one game when Hurts was playing this yr…guess who didn't win a SB last yr regardless of odds…guess who moved up for a young QB that they KNEW needed to play and develop and also had no ambitions of tanking seasons. This narrative that you can't draft a QB and play him if your team is good is f**king dumb. They weren't replacing Tom Brady

Not saying everyone has to agree but it is actually f**king dumb to claim this narrative is dumb.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
They made their choice when they traded Wentz in favor of Hurts.

Again guess who's only lost one game when Hurts was playing this yr…guess who didn't win a SB last yr regardless of odds…guess who moved up for a young QB that they KNEW needed to play and develop and also had no ambitions of tanking seasons. This narrative that you can't draft a QB and play him if your team is good is f**king dumb. They weren't replacing Tom Brady

That's not the narrative. That's your oversimplification of the narrative, omitting and ignoring key details.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
I think that's what they should have tried to do, or they should have used assets to improve the team elsewhere. Just because you want something different or better, doesn't mean its actually there to be had.

As for prioritizing the immediate season, or the next couple of seasons which is really what it was, over 'the next decade', for me it depends on where your team is. If it's ready to win the Super Bowl (21 49ers), I think you maximize that teams chances in the now. If it isn't (21 Eagles), you don't.

It would be a no brainer to draft and play Trey Lance so he could develop if the realistic best case outlook for your team is a playoff appearance.

If you don't think it's ready to win the SB with the current guy it's also a no brainer.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
If you don't think it's ready to win the SB with the current guy it's also a no brainer.

Sure. Hopefully you recognize that's a debatable position, especially in the context of Jimmy G. Just because he played like s**t in the 4th quarter and was the primary reason for a Super Bowl loss or an NFC championship, doesn't mean he couldn't have been a Super Bowl champion if his defense stops a 3rd and 15 in the 4th quarter, or a safety catches a tailor made interception in the title game, or in another season entirely. I personally think this team could win a Super Bowl with Jimmy G, it just won't be because he put them on their backs. Their margin for error with him is smaller than with a good-great QB. It's another argument for another thread.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Sure. Hopefully you recognize that's a debatable position, especially in the context of Jimmy G. Just because he played like s**t and was the primary reason for a Super Bowl loss or an NFC championship, doesn't mean he couldn't have been a Super Bowl champion if his defense stops a 3rd and 15 in the 4th quarter, or a safety catches a tailor made interception in the title game. I personally think this team could win a Super Bowl with Jimmy G, it just won't be because he put them on their backs. Their margin for error with him is smaller than with a good-great QB. It's another argument for another thread.

Whereas hopefully you can see it's a debatable position that with all the talent around Lance that with a full seasons of starts by this point maybe the team is playing at a similar level then they are now with him. We can't take a small sample size of Trey and say that's who he is full stop but also say the small sample size of Jimmy in the playoffs might change.

Only thing that can be said for certain is Brock is currently playing better than both.

Originally posted by dj43:
We really need to stop thinking about Purdy as a rookie in the same sense as most rookies come into the league. He has FAR more experience than any other rookie in recent memory...and it shows in his play.

Another point that has been blown up is the idea he has an average or slightly below-average arm. Tom Gormely of the Quarterback Collective has stated that after working with them, his speed improved to 55-56 MPH while the average NFL QB throws it at 54-55 MPH. So there is that.

I know he's far ahead this far of any rookie I've paid attention to. I'm just saying that he's a literal rookie and he's balling better than our vet QB2! After three pro starts and to me that's amazing!

I agree that from what I'm seeing Kyle can really let loose with his play calling and Brock is allowing him to do that. Lucky us but I'm sure his teammates knew he was good if not this good. We're the ones just now finding all this out

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Whereas hopefully you can see it's a debatable position that with all the talent around Lance that with a full seasons of starts by this point maybe the team is playing at a similar level then they are now with him. We can't take a small sample size of Trey and say that's who he is full stop but also say the small sample size of Jimmy in the playoffs might change.

Only thing that can be said for certain is Brock is currently playing better than both.

I absolutely agree nobody knows what the outcome would be and it could be very positive. It could also be very negative. Or anything inbetween.

The risk is the center of the argument.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
I absolutely agree nobody knows what the outcome would be and it could be very positive. It could also be very negative. Or anything inbetween.

The risk is the center of the argument.

Doing it right now with Mr. irrelevent. Whether Jimmy is healthy or not I'm risking everything with Brock all playoffs too.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Doing it right now with Mr. irrelevent. Whether Jimmy is healthy or not I'm risking everything with Brock all playoffs too.

I would too, but that's because the available evidence suggests he is a better option than Jimmy right now. If I thought Jimmy was a better player right now, I'd want Jimmy to play. If all three QBs were healthy now I'd want Lance to be third on the depth chart to finish out the season. The team is ready to win the Super Bowl this season. The best player should play at every position, especially QB, to give us the best chance.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
That's not the narrative. That's your oversimplification of the narrative, omitting and ignoring key details.

Lol pot meet kettle

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
What it appears like to me is we have people for whatever reason now not wanting Trey to even be in consideration to compete for the job next year. That is wild when we know Trey was drafted as a raw project that needed to sit a year or maybe even 2 as even stated by Jed York! Brock obviously came prepared to compete in this league with the work ethic experience and the skill set to boot. We knew Trey was gonna take time and game reps is probably best but he was so raw year 1 he needed to sit and watch. He will compete this offseason and he may again have to sit and watch as he is now

I personally want to win the chip this year then after that I am gonna trust coach even more and because he will have won he will have the cachet to hold a QB competition as the fan base will be more apt to gladly tolerate it. Winning a chip buys one more leeway

I disagree.

The best thing Shanahan and his CS can do next off-/ preseason is build up on the chemistry Purdy and the first team have developed.

I don't want any meaningful reps to be taken from Brock in order for Trey to keep learning the position.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Nowhere did I say that's not reality. I acknowledged the exact opposite in your Eagles example. You're not properly reading my positions, and arguing your incorrect interpretations, lol.

The 2021 49ers were a Super Bowl contending team with a veteran who had shown he could be the QB of a Super Bowl contending team. Giving the keys to a raw prospect in order to develop him on the fly COULD potentially hinder that team's ability to contend. The limited evidence indicated just that, and the coach's decision to start Jimmy G from the beginning of the season through multiple injuries in the playoffs also did so.

The 2021 Eagles were NOT a Super Bowl contending team with an established veteran QB. They were a fringe playoff team with a young QB prospect in Hurts, and former starter/backup who had started 20 games in Jacksonville over his two seasons in the NFL. It was not CLEAR who was the better starter between the two, and the consequences/risks for getting that decision wrong, or for prioritizing the development of Hurts, were much lower.

My argument has been the same…players get better when they play. If that player plays on a GOOD roster that only helps that young player get better.

you think SF was winning a SB with Jimmy. This team overall did NOT, hence the Lance pick. So that right there tells you all you need to know about how they felt about him. he had his shot and played some of the worst football (when it mattered) in Super Bowl history. Stop acting like lance was replacing prime Tom Brady.

Guys like Hurts and Allen are examples of players that were given time to develop and didn't play on a piece of s**t roster. Jackson is another. He was not a great passer, they allowed him to do what he's good at ALONG with developing as a passer…crazy they still won games.

I have no idea what you're talking about with hurts and a fringe starter? Wentz was the guy they moved on from…he was at one point a MVP candidate and helped that team win a SB in 2017. Foles was gone by 2018 and Minshew was always a backup. Hurts has been starting in games for Philly since 2020.

This is the same bad argument that a lot of people use. Jimmy is perfectly capable of winning a Super Bowl, he just wasn't able to do it in the two chances he had, which is the way it goes sometimes. Yeah, he missed that pass to Sanders but the defense also failed to show up in the last ten minutes of the game and Mahomes made them pay. Despite what some people would like to believe there is a difference between can't and didn't.

There is also the silly hindsight argument of trying to say, well, since Jimmy didn't get us to the Super Bowl we might as well have started Lance from the beginning, overlooking the fact that Jimmy was simply the better QB in 2021 and there was NO WAY they were going to hand that roster over to a kid with so little experience. And as SmokeyJoe pointed out, and as I have also made note of, going into the playoffs with a QB who had an injury to both the thumb and shoulder of his throwing arm, the latter of which would ultimately require surgery, the team still considered Jimmy a better choice than Lance with his injured finger.

As I recall, I actually said that if they thought Jimmy wasn't capable of going I would rather have seen Lance in some of those last games because I didn't want the team to lose because of Jimmy's inability to get the ball where he needed to. That nightmare almost came to fruition in Green Bay with that pick in the end zone but special teams ended up bailing them out. The unavoidable fact of that situation though is that when push came to shove they felt an injured Jimmy gave them a better chance than a less injured Lance. There really is no other way to look at it.

im getting less and less confident about my take that lance would beat purdy in camp

purdy just keeps delivering

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by Wolf_Packer_53:
I know this may be quite a stretch, and the true answer will come next season when the tape is out there on Brock, but I could totally see him developing into a poor man's Brees. Similar build, very smart, great poise and leadership, arm strength is average. Brock definitely is more mobile then Brees, not much of a comparison there.

Can anyone give me the specifics of why he doesn't have the "potential" to developed into someone as good as Drew Brees?

I am only talking about potential since everyone has been talking about how Trey's potential being exponentially higher than Brock, as if Brock has low ceiling.

The two scouting reports I've read have indicated a lack of arm strength, labored delivery, he's undersized, struggles with the pass rush, and doesn't have the mobility that is en vogue throughout the league.

I feel he's shown solid arm strength and good elusiveness in the pocket. He's executing our offense very well.

So far, he hasn't shown any major chinks in his armor that would make me question what he can develop into. Part of it is that the scheme and surrounding cast maximizes his talents + hides his flaws. But the only errors I've seen are just things that you'd see from rookies—has misread some coverages and doesn't always have the best timing… those things should get better with experience.

If I can make some comparisons to Brady and Garoppolo… I'd say this. He executes the offense like Jimmy has, and how Brady did early in his career. He's a facilitator that lets the scheme and his playmakers do the work. Brady eventually became a QB that not only executed the scheme, but was challenging defenses at all three levels with his arm and knowledge. So far, Purdy's making throws, but you get the sense that Shanahan is really really pulling the strings so that Purdy is never in tough situations, that maybe a veteran QB can make.