Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by Dshearn:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by 49erKing:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Arm is definitely stronger than Montana's.
No not really. They both throw extremely catchable balls on all their different types of throws though. Both elite there.
Disagree, I remember Montana's long balls had more arch to them. Early in Montana's career (Before Rice) he had long ball issues. Which are not a big deal during the early years as he had Wendell Tyler. That Aiyuk 40+ yard throw was a flatter trajectory than Montana's usual deep throws, as I recall it.
Having a lower trajectory on deep balls all the time means your arm isn't as strong, because you have to cut out the wasted motion. You think Russell Wilson has a weak arm? His deep balls are more tear drop than anyone's I've ever seen.
The second the ball leaves your hand, the only forces working on it are gravity and friction. A high arching ball travels a further net distance than a flattened one. It takes more arm to throw more distance. QBs who depend on a flat arc for deep balls probably do not have as strong an arm as those who don't.
HOWEVER, it could also merely be a preference. The QB maybe doesn't anticipate as much as the tear drop guy and has to sling it to get it there in time, or perhaps they're paranoid about the ball taking a long time to get there.
.
.
.
EDIT: before I get tarred and feathered, I'm not talking about Brock. His arm is plenty strong enough to hit every throw you need to wear a gold jacket. I'm just talking theoretically. If you HAVE to have a low trajectory to throw deep, your arm isn't as strong as someone who can easily do either.
Any science behind this? I think if someone wants to throw deep, if they have the time, and it makes sense, they "naturally" conform to throwing with a higher arc/higher trajectory. I mean that's how I feel when I play catch with the guys. If you're trying to laser it while going deep I think that actually means you have a stronger arm than most.
Yeah. Pythagoras
Which means, if you MUST throw with a low arc to get it there, your arm is weaker. (By arm strength I mean how far you can throw the ball, but I see no reason why velocity and distance would be different as a measure of arm strength unless the QB has mechanical problems which make one of either his distance or velocity throws more inefficient.)
.
.
EDIT: Just to be clear, however, I do believe that the most likely reason most of the time for why some QBs throw with a low arc and some don't is that the low arc guys either have poorer deep anticipation or don't trust their accuracy and timing as much, or fear that a super fast safety might catch up and make a play. In other words, I think a lot of low-arc deep ball guys COULD throw tear drops but choose not to.
That is not how it works for most.....
Not really replying to 5-rings here.....but anyone that is interested....
Step out side and throw the ball as far as you can.....then throw it 10 yards on a line drive....then throw it 10 yards with as much arch as you can get.... you will quickly come to the conclusions that a line drive takes more arm strength, and when you throw it as far as you can...it arch's..
Before you head back inside....pick the ball up and drop it
Pick it up again.....and drop it from over your head....
The Reason that weaker arms loft balls.....has nothing to do with Pythagoras....
The reason balls are lofted when you throw long is gravity.
Everything falls at 9.8m a second. How long the ball took to fall is all the time you have to work with.
You only have two ways to counteract how long the ball takes to fall (gravity) , throw it faster to make it go farther in the time it takes gravity pull it to the ground, or cheat....and throw it as fast as you can and as high as you can to let the forward momentum work against the added height to make the ball stay in the air longer.
When you loft a ball, you are adding sacrificial drop to buy yourself more time for the balls forward velocity to work longer.
I always thought it takes more arm strength to throw a ball "on a rope" (less arc). This is why the deep Out is the one throw that separates QBs with elite arm strength from the rest of the pack. Can't throw a deep Out with high arc since it gives the CB more time to react.
See my last reply. The critical arc angle is 45 degrees. Each additional degree higher than 45 degrees takes MORE velocity to reach the target. Each additional degree LOWER than 45 degrees also takes more velocity to reach the target.
Here's two examples, each with an instance showing the statement above.
Russel Wilson, who throws with a high angle:
He throws two passes. Both travel a horizontal distance of 40 meters. Then
40 meters = [v^2 sin(2α)]/(g). Which means velocity is v = sqrt [(40 meters * 9.8 meters/second^2)/(sin(2α))]
In the instance where he throws the pass with 46 degrees of arc, his velocity is:
v = sqrt [(40 meters * 9.8 meters/second^2)/(sin(2*46 degrees))]
= 19.18 m/s
In the instance where he throws the pass with 50 degrees of arc, his velocity is:
v = sqrt [(40 meters * 9.8 meters/second^2)/(sin(2*50 degrees))]
v = 19.95 m/s
So he has to throw it HARDER to throw it HIGHER.
Contrast that with say, Brock. Say Brock tends to throw with an arc angle less than 45 degrees.
His first pass has an arc of 44 degrees. Then,
v = sqrt [(40 meters * 9.8 meters/second^2)/(sin(2*44 degrees))]
v = 19.81 m/s
His second pass has an arc of 40 degrees. Then,
v = sqrt [(40 meters * 9.8 meters/second^2)/(sin(2*40 degrees))]
v = 19.85 m/s.
So he has to throw it HARDER to throw it LOWER.
So both are actually true. It just depends on if the angle increase is above 45 degrees or below it.