QB Brock Purdy Thread

Originally posted by ChaunceyGardner:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
We've seen this deep ball theme before. I think when you have a safe game plan where a huge chunk of the low volume of passes are behind or just past the LOS and then 2-3 times a game, are asked to hit the deep lower % shot, it's off. Even the wide open ones.

It's like chipping on the chipping green for 3 hours and then heading out to tee/hole 1 and trying to hit your driver for the first time that day.

Meh, it's not like Mahomes/Herbert/Allen/Stafford are chucking it deep every other drop back. It's the NFL and if you want to be paid like an elite guy….you gotta hit those open explosives…at the very least give the receiver a shot to make the play.

it wasn't just one throw either, it was a couple throws downfield. I'm not saying he can't or never will…but this issue dates back to his college time as well.

His overall game is good…I'm happy he's our guy right now. Hopefully it's something he can become a little more consistent at.

Those are pass centric offenses where the QB has plenty of time to get in rhythm. We're run centric. So I'm just saying when those deeper shots are dialed up, while there are no excuses here, it seems we see things a bit off here no matter the QB. I think that's why.

WK1 the chargers ran it more than any team in football, they currently have one less rushing attempt then us…The Rams run the football just as much as we do (currently the same amount of attempts) the Bill have 5 less rushing attempts. Eagles run the ball more than we do and hurts can still sling it downfield when asked.

they're off because we haven't had a QB that can actually hit those shots on a somewhat consistent basis…is Jimmy slinging downfield in LV? Nope. That's not what he's good at, so why ask him to do it?

I'm not saying Brock stinks at pushing the ball downfield, on legit deep field throws…overall I just don't think that's a strong part of his game. To use your golf analogy…he doesn't take the driver out of the bag because he's not good at hitting the driver. maybe he improves there….I feel like deep ball accuracy is something that you either have or don't. Like I said time will tell, he's still young and hasn't even played a full season of football.

Brock is playing on Kyle Shanahan's executive course where you only pull the driver out 3 times in 18 holes.

I thought of golf analogy with the long throws as well, it's like hitting the 5 iron all day for shorter tee shots then suddenly pulling out the driver

But every once in a while you come up to a 300 yd par 4 that maybe you can drive the green on. So you need to have the driver in your toolset if need be.

If not Micah Parsons will intercept your pitching wedge 110yds and in and bring it back to your tee box.

Originally posted by eric_anthony:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Like a lot of teams, they're not all chucking it deep all game. When kyle dials it up and guys are wide open…hit that s**t

Seriously at least hit one of them. Those misses are disheartening I just hope he's able to hit one of those soon.

Brock hit the deep pass to Jennings. His throw to Deebo before the end of the first half was also money. That being said he needed to hit the Aiyuk and Deebo throws. I would have happy with his overall performance if he hit one of those two, especially the Deebo throw because that was a TD.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Brock is playing on Kyle Shanahan's executive course where you only pull the driver out 3 times in 18 holes.

How many times did mcvay pull the driver out?

Originally posted by SD49er:

Originally posted by eric_anthony:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Like a lot of teams, they're not all chucking it deep all game. When kyle dials it up and guys are wide open…hit that s**t

Seriously at least hit one of them. Those misses are disheartening I just hope he's able to hit one of those soon.

Brock hit the deep pass to Jennings. His throw to Deebo before the end of the first half was also money. That being said he needed to hit the Aiyuk and Deebo throws. I would have happy with his overall performance if he hit one of those two, especially the Deebo throw because that was a TD.

If he hit those two the national media would be talking about top 10 QB. Those passes are what are separating him from good game manager to elite QB. So if he fixes that, look out.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
We've seen this deep ball theme before. I think when you have a safe game plan where a huge chunk of the low volume of passes are behind or just past the LOS and then 2-3 times a game, are asked to hit the deep lower % shot, it's off. Even the wide open ones.

It's like chipping on the chipping green for 3 hours and then heading out to tee/hole 1 and trying to hit your driver for the first time that day.

Meh, it's not like Mahomes/Herbert/Allen/Stafford are chucking it deep every other drop back. It's the NFL and if you want to be paid like an elite guy….you gotta hit those open explosives…at the very least give the receiver a shot to make the play.

it wasn't just one throw either, it was a couple throws downfield. I'm not saying he can't or never will…but this issue dates back to his college time as well.

His overall game is good…I'm happy he's our guy right now. Hopefully it's something he can become a little more consistent at.

Those are pass centric offenses where the QB has plenty of time to get in rhythm. We're run centric. So I'm just saying when those deeper shots are dialed up, while there are no excuses here, it seems we see things a bit off here no matter the QB. I think that's why.

WK1 the chargers ran it more than any team in football, they currently have one less rushing attempt then us…The Rams run the football just as much as we do (currently the same amount of attempts) the Bill have 5 less rushing attempts. Eagles run the ball more than we do and hurts can still sling it downfield when asked.

they're off because we haven't had a QB that can actually hit those shots on a somewhat consistent basis…is Jimmy slinging downfield in LV? Nope. That's not what he's good at, so why ask him to do it?

I'm not saying Brock stinks at pushing the ball downfield, on legit deep field throws…overall I just don't think that's a strong part of his game. To use your golf analogy…he doesn't take the driver out of the bag because he's not good at hitting the driver. maybe he improves there….I feel like deep ball accuracy is something that you either have or don't. Like I said time will tell, he's still young and hasn't even played a full season of football.

Brock is playing on Kyle Shanahan's executive course where you only pull the driver out 3 times in 18 holes.

I guarantee you there were other deep routes which simply weren't open. And the incomplete to Deebo was the third read, per Shanahan. Our deep passing game isn't just scripted deep balls pulled out from time to time to exploit the defense. We almost always have deep routes, but they're also almost always covered, because why wouldn't they be?

So, Kyle is not demanding his QBs always throw short and ignore open deep guys, only throwing deep when he calls a play where the deep is the primary. That's not how this offense works and never has been. When the deep is there, he wants his guy to throw it. Hell, if you look at the various Shanahan playbooks posted online, there are almost always deep alerts depending on defensive matchup/formation and what immediately happens after the snap.

Bottom line: Kyle wants the QB to throw to the open man. He's not dictating where the QB can or cannot throw the ball.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Also, I'm warning you NC. You are dangerously close to making me follow through on my threat to post Brony memes and unironic Twilight content. I said in the Kyle thread if one more person tries to blame Jimmy not throwing to open deep guys on "Kyle's system" I'm gonna do it. Because Kyle has REPEATEDLY said—including after the Rams game—that he wants his QBs taking those open deep shots.

You've been warned...

Personally, I just don't think the long ball is a point of emphasis on this offense. Yes, Purdy does need to take the long ball shots, if its' there. But just taking it and missing - still has some benefits, and still will scare some DC's into loosening their pass coverages. *IF* the long ball was something Kyle wanted to make as a featured part of his game, he'd want more Tyreek Hill type WR's and less Deebo, Aiyuk, and Jauan type of Wr's. I just don't think those misses will significantly affect Kyle's passing offense to where it will be shut down. Having said that, we'll see in the NY Giants game if Purdy is still having problems with the Long Ball. NY Giants, as I understand it, haven't had a defensive sack this season yet. (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) But if I"m right, the NY Giants game would be the time to throw the long ball and get Purdy's deep ball calibrated correctly.

One of the differences between Brock and Jimmy is that Brock DOES take those shots. And I hate to say this yet again, but in 2018 when CJ Beathard went in, immediately there were more shots down the field. He took more shots with Trey in as well. But that isn't even the point. Kyle has said REPEATEDLY that when the shots are there he wants his guys taking them. There is no "Don't throw it to the open man down the field because you have to throw it to the short guy I schemed open for you" nonsense in this offense. When the play is there, he wants his guys making it, and he wants them being fearless and taking shots when they are there. He's said this numerous times.

Disagree, the long ball is simply *NOT* a point of emphasis in Kyle's offense. YAC is. I understand what you are saying, in that Kyle does not *discourage* long ball throws if it's there. NC is simply saying it's not practiced much in this offense whereas the YAC passes are. Hence, when it IS there, because it's not extensively practiced, it's more miss than hit - in Brock's case. That is one explanation of Brock's Rams misfires. I happen to share that option also. But also, every QB has a bad day. Brock's not a robot, he's human. So he's not perfect. Only one guy was - that was 2,000 or so years ago when he walked the earth.

If there's one statistic that the Niners offense is known for above anything else, it's YAC: Yards After the Catch. The way that Shanahan generates the YAC is by designing his plays to target the middle of the field, allowing his receivers to catch the ball with plenty of momentum and a lot of real estate around them so they can carry on for another chunk of yards before being tackled.
https://www.bruinsportsanalytics.com/post/kyleshanahan

.

At least someone in here, maybe NC, has repeatedly claimed that Kyle does not want his QB taking shots down the field when they are open. Or rather, that Kyle tells the QB he always has to throw the ball to a particular spot. That's totally false. Kyle wants his QB to throw the ball to the open guy.

And if you want to point to a place on the field where the offense is designed to attack, it's the intermediate areas. The deep ins. All the horizontal passing and stretch running is designed to open that area up so we can go for the kill. And those plays almost always include a clearing route over the top, which Kyle WANTS our guys to throw if it's open—although usually it's the deep in.

YAC is valuable whether you're taking shots or not, and why in the world did we draft Danny Gray and bring in Goodwin in 2017 if we just want a bunch of possession WRs? Why Dante Pettis with his 4.32 40 time?

Regardless, this isn't the WCO. This is an offense whose primary purpose is to attack 12-20 yards down the field in between the hashes, with a run game and horizontal passing game designed to spread out the defense so that those deep ins and posts can be completed successfully.

My point is more of a coaching point. Kyle's already stated he doesn't see the big deal with deep shots when you can achieve the same results more safely. Hence why he sets up just 2 or 3 deeper shots a game in his game plan and everybody practices and knows these. Hence why he's run centric. Hence why a large portion of his passes are behind or at the LOS...extensions of the run game.

I think he'd love if every high receiver was hit perfectly and it became a high % play but he also gets being smarter, more controlled and not turning the ball over.

I said with time, don't be surprised if you see less and less deep aggression from Brock and more success with the ones Kyle does dial up.

PS: If you need evidence of this, Kittle has already talked about how Kyle uses decoy runs and routes to set up these shot plays. This is why you see Kyle lose his mind like yesterday when they are missed. Kyle runs this b***h which is why this is still a 170 yards rushing and 220 yards passing team. No matter the QB. QB just has to be as efficient as possible. And Brock is.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Brock is playing on Kyle Shanahan's executive course where you only pull the driver out 3 times in 18 holes.

How many times did mcvay pull the driver out?

Stafford doesn't have the arm

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Also, I'm warning you NC. You are dangerously close to making me follow through on my threat to post Brony memes and unironic Twilight content. I said in the Kyle thread if one more person tries to blame Jimmy not throwing to open deep guys on "Kyle's system" I'm gonna do it. Because Kyle has REPEATEDLY said—including after the Rams game—that he wants his QBs taking those open deep shots.

You've been warned...

Personally, I just don't think the long ball is a point of emphasis on this offense. Yes, Purdy does need to take the long ball shots, if its' there. But just taking it and missing - still has some benefits, and still will scare some DC's into loosening their pass coverages. *IF* the long ball was something Kyle wanted to make as a featured part of his game, he'd want more Tyreek Hill type WR's and less Deebo, Aiyuk, and Jauan type of Wr's. I just don't think those misses will significantly affect Kyle's passing offense to where it will be shut down. Having said that, we'll see in the NY Giants game if Purdy is still having problems with the Long Ball. NY Giants, as I understand it, haven't had a defensive sack this season yet. (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) But if I"m right, the NY Giants game would be the time to throw the long ball and get Purdy's deep ball calibrated correctly.

One of the differences between Brock and Jimmy is that Brock DOES take those shots. And I hate to say this yet again, but in 2018 when CJ Beathard went in, immediately there were more shots down the field. He took more shots with Trey in as well. But that isn't even the point. Kyle has said REPEATEDLY that when the shots are there he wants his guys taking them. There is no "Don't throw it to the open man down the field because you have to throw it to the short guy I schemed open for you" nonsense in this offense. When the play is there, he wants his guys making it, and he wants them being fearless and taking shots when they are there. He's said this numerous times.

Disagree, the long ball is simply *NOT* a point of emphasis in Kyle's offense. YAC is. I understand what you are saying, in that Kyle does not *discourage* long ball throws if it's there. NC is simply saying it's not practiced much in this offense whereas the YAC passes are. Hence, when it IS there, because it's not extensively practiced, it's more miss than hit - in Brock's case. That is one explanation of Brock's Rams misfires. I happen to share that option also. But also, every QB has a bad day. Brock's not a robot, he's human. So he's not perfect. Only one guy was - that was 2,000 or so years ago when he walked the earth.

If there's one statistic that the Niners offense is known for above anything else, it's YAC: Yards After the Catch. The way that Shanahan generates the YAC is by designing his plays to target the middle of the field, allowing his receivers to catch the ball with plenty of momentum and a lot of real estate around them so they can carry on for another chunk of yards before being tackled.
https://www.bruinsportsanalytics.com/post/kyleshanahan

.

At least someone in here, maybe NC, has repeatedly claimed that Kyle does not want his QB taking shots down the field when they are open. Or rather, that Kyle tells the QB he always has to throw the ball to a particular spot. That's totally false. Kyle wants his QB to throw the ball to the open guy.

And if you want to point to a place on the field where the offense is designed to attack, it's the intermediate areas. The deep ins. All the horizontal passing and stretch running is designed to open that area up so we can go for the kill. And those plays almost always include a clearing route over the top, which Kyle WANTS our guys to throw if it's open—although usually it's the deep in.

YAC is valuable whether you're taking shots or not, and why in the world did we draft Danny Gray and bring in Goodwin in 2017 if we just want a bunch of possession WRs? Why Dante Pettis with his 4.32 40 time?

Regardless, this isn't the WCO. This is an offense whose primary purpose is to attack 12-20 yards down the field in between the hashes, with a run game and horizontal passing game designed to spread out the defense so that those deep ins and posts can be completed successfully.

My point is more of a coaching point. Kyle's already stated he doesn't see the big deal with deep shots when you can achieve the same results more safely. Hence why he sets up just 2 or 3 deeper shots a game in his game plan and everybody practices and knows these. Hence why he's run centric. Hence why a large portion of his passes are behind or at the LOS...extensions of the run game.

I think he'd love if every high receiver was hit perfectly and it became a high % play but he also gets being smarter, more controlled and not turning the ball over.

I said with time, don't be surprised if you see less and less deep aggression from Brock and more success with the ones Kyle does dial up.

PS: If you need evidence of this, Kittle has already talked about how Kyle uses decoy runs and routes to set up these shot plays. This is why you see Kyle lose his mind like yesterday when they are missed. Kyle runs this b***h which is why this is still a 170 yards rushing and 220 yards passing team. No matter the QB. QB just has to be as efficient as possible. And Brock is.

Sorry don't believe it. Kyle is awesome but he will speak to match the situation. Don't kid yourself. He would have had a 49 inch woody if those throws connected. He will keep trying. With Brock he doesn't seem to ease off the gas like Jimmy. He keeps pushing. This is what I've waited to see from Kyle and QB. Brock will hit those. The kid is really still a rookie as far as I'm concerned until he has 17 games under his belt.

Originally posted by 9erson3:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Also, I'm warning you NC. You are dangerously close to making me follow through on my threat to post Brony memes and unironic Twilight content. I said in the Kyle thread if one more person tries to blame Jimmy not throwing to open deep guys on "Kyle's system" I'm gonna do it. Because Kyle has REPEATEDLY said—including after the Rams game—that he wants his QBs taking those open deep shots.

You've been warned...

Personally, I just don't think the long ball is a point of emphasis on this offense. Yes, Purdy does need to take the long ball shots, if its' there. But just taking it and missing - still has some benefits, and still will scare some DC's into loosening their pass coverages. *IF* the long ball was something Kyle wanted to make as a featured part of his game, he'd want more Tyreek Hill type WR's and less Deebo, Aiyuk, and Jauan type of Wr's. I just don't think those misses will significantly affect Kyle's passing offense to where it will be shut down. Having said that, we'll see in the NY Giants game if Purdy is still having problems with the Long Ball. NY Giants, as I understand it, haven't had a defensive sack this season yet. (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) But if I"m right, the NY Giants game would be the time to throw the long ball and get Purdy's deep ball calibrated correctly.

One of the differences between Brock and Jimmy is that Brock DOES take those shots. And I hate to say this yet again, but in 2018 when CJ Beathard went in, immediately there were more shots down the field. He took more shots with Trey in as well. But that isn't even the point. Kyle has said REPEATEDLY that when the shots are there he wants his guys taking them. There is no "Don't throw it to the open man down the field because you have to throw it to the short guy I schemed open for you" nonsense in this offense. When the play is there, he wants his guys making it, and he wants them being fearless and taking shots when they are there. He's said this numerous times.

Disagree, the long ball is simply *NOT* a point of emphasis in Kyle's offense. YAC is. I understand what you are saying, in that Kyle does not *discourage* long ball throws if it's there. NC is simply saying it's not practiced much in this offense whereas the YAC passes are. Hence, when it IS there, because it's not extensively practiced, it's more miss than hit - in Brock's case. That is one explanation of Brock's Rams misfires. I happen to share that option also. But also, every QB has a bad day. Brock's not a robot, he's human. So he's not perfect. Only one guy was - that was 2,000 or so years ago when he walked the earth.

If there's one statistic that the Niners offense is known for above anything else, it's YAC: Yards After the Catch. The way that Shanahan generates the YAC is by designing his plays to target the middle of the field, allowing his receivers to catch the ball with plenty of momentum and a lot of real estate around them so they can carry on for another chunk of yards before being tackled.
https://www.bruinsportsanalytics.com/post/kyleshanahan

.

At least someone in here, maybe NC, has repeatedly claimed that Kyle does not want his QB taking shots down the field when they are open. Or rather, that Kyle tells the QB he always has to throw the ball to a particular spot. That's totally false. Kyle wants his QB to throw the ball to the open guy.

And if you want to point to a place on the field where the offense is designed to attack, it's the intermediate areas. The deep ins. All the horizontal passing and stretch running is designed to open that area up so we can go for the kill. And those plays almost always include a clearing route over the top, which Kyle WANTS our guys to throw if it's open—although usually it's the deep in.

YAC is valuable whether you're taking shots or not, and why in the world did we draft Danny Gray and bring in Goodwin in 2017 if we just want a bunch of possession WRs? Why Dante Pettis with his 4.32 40 time?

Regardless, this isn't the WCO. This is an offense whose primary purpose is to attack 12-20 yards down the field in between the hashes, with a run game and horizontal passing game designed to spread out the defense so that those deep ins and posts can be completed successfully.

My point is more of a coaching point. Kyle's already stated he doesn't see the big deal with deep shots when you can achieve the same results more safely. Hence why he sets up just 2 or 3 deeper shots a game in his game plan and everybody practices and knows these. Hence why he's run centric. Hence why a large portion of his passes are behind or at the LOS...extensions of the run game.

I think he'd love if every high receiver was hit perfectly and it became a high % play but he also gets being smarter, more controlled and not turning the ball over.

I said with time, don't be surprised if you see less and less deep aggression from Brock and more success with the ones Kyle does dial up.

PS: If you need evidence of this, Kittle has already talked about how Kyle uses decoy runs and routes to set up these shot plays. This is why you see Kyle lose his mind like yesterday when they are missed. Kyle runs this b***h which is why this is still a 170 yards rushing and 220 yards passing team. No matter the QB. QB just has to be as efficient as possible. And Brock is.

Sorry don't believe it. Kyle is awesome but he will speak to match the situation. Don't kid yourself. He would have had a 49 inch woody if those throws connected. He will keep trying. With Brock he doesn't seem to ease off the gas like Jimmy. He keeps pushing. This is what I've waited to see from Kyle and QB. Brock will hit those. The kid is really still a rookie as far as I'm concerned until he has 17 games under his belt.

The numbers are identical. And they'll remain that way, IMHO.

To your point, that doesn't mean Kyle doesn't trust him more or sees better efficiency within it but this is still how Kyle rolls through and through under his full control.

In fact, it's so predictable you can guesstimate the run/pass ratio almost to a tee annually.

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Brock is playing on Kyle Shanahan's executive course where you only pull the driver out 3 times in 18 holes.

How many times did mcvay pull the driver out?

Ironically, how they beat us in that 4Q of the NFCCG was using the sand wedge the entire time. It looks like they tried a whole game with that one club.

Originally posted by NCommand:
The numbers are identical. And they'll remain that way, IMHO.

To your point, that doesn't mean Kyle doesn't trust him more or sees better efficiency within it but this is still how Kyle rolls through and through under his full control.

In fact, it's so predictable you can guesstimate the run/pass ratio almost to a tee annually.

They will only be identical if Brock misses the shots.

Of course at least Brock takes the shots. That in it itself is an improvement.

Good to know early in the season what Brock needs to improve on.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
The numbers are identical. And they'll remain that way, IMHO.

To your point, that doesn't mean Kyle doesn't trust him more or sees better efficiency within it but this is still how Kyle rolls through and through under his full control.

In fact, it's so predictable you can guesstimate the run/pass ratio almost to a tee annually.

They will only be identical if Brock misses the shots.

Of course at least Brock takes the shots. That in it itself is an improvement.

100%. I was going to say, it's not like there isn't an opportunity to hit 300 yards. He's just going to have to be hyper efficient including hitting those 2-3 shots.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I guarantee you there were other deep routes which simply weren't open. And the incomplete to Deebo was the third read, per Shanahan. Our deep passing game isn't just scripted deep balls pulled out from time to time to exploit the defense. We almost always have deep routes, but they're also almost always covered, because why wouldn't they be?

So, Kyle is not demanding his QBs always throw short and ignore open deep guys, only throwing deep when he calls a play where the deep is the primary. That's not how this offense works and never has been. When the deep is there, he wants his guy to throw it. Hell, if you look at the various Shanahan playbooks posted online, there are almost always deep alerts depending on defensive matchup/formation and what immediately happens after the snap.

Bottom line: Kyle wants the QB to throw to the open man. He's not dictating where the QB can or cannot throw the ball.

Never has dictated it. It's on the QB. We just have a guy now who can actually get to the 3rd read now without panicking with happy feet.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
I guarantee you there were other deep routes which simply weren't open. And the incomplete to Deebo was the third read, per Shanahan. Our deep passing game isn't just scripted deep balls pulled out from time to time to exploit the defense. We almost always have deep routes, but they're also almost always covered, because why wouldn't they be?

So, Kyle is not demanding his QBs always throw short and ignore open deep guys, only throwing deep when he calls a play where the deep is the primary. That's not how this offense works and never has been. When the deep is there, he wants his guy to throw it. Hell, if you look at the various Shanahan playbooks posted online, there are almost always deep alerts depending on defensive matchup/formation and what immediately happens after the snap.

Bottom line: Kyle wants the QB to throw to the open man. He's not dictating where the QB can or cannot throw the ball.

Never has dictated it. It's on the QB. We just have a guy now who can actually get to the 3rd read now without panicking with happy feet.

And yet the numbers are identical. Why is that?