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Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
I'm fascinated by Trey's ceiling so I can't jump immediately on the Brock bandwagon.
I can't jump on any bandwagon after we passed up on the chance to develop Vance McDonald at QB. He was so big, so strong, so fast, his ceiling as a QB was just out of this world. I'm still not over it
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
I'm fascinated by Trey's ceiling so I can't jump immediately on the Brock bandwagon.
I can't jump on any bandwagon after we passed up on the chance to develop Vance McDonald at QB. He was so big, so strong, so fast, his ceiling as a QB was just out of this world. I'm still not over it
Originally posted by krizay:Originally posted by CharlieSheen:Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:I'm fascinated by Trey's ceiling so I can't jump immediately on the Brock bandwagon.
I can't jump on any bandwagon after we passed up on the chance to develop Vance McDonald at QB. He was so big, so strong, so fast, his ceiling as a QB was just out of this world. I'm still not over it
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Well, I don't agree with that entirely. If Purdy comes out looking like a Pro Bowl and we're offered a first or more for Trey, I think that's a good enough reason to do it.
Have we learned nothing from last year? Well, the team seems to have because despite having four qb's on the books I see they are putting a fifth through his paces.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by 49ers808:
This
I kind of see the comparison and I get what you guys are saying about 2017 Jimmy and Brock last season. This might just be me, but I think what Brock did showed a lot more and was a lot more then what Jimmy did for the following reasons:
1. Jimmy was not a rookie
2. We were already eliminated from the playoffs and playing for and with nothing to lose
3. We were used to awful QB play so Jimmy appeared much better then what he was, I mean 7 TDs to 5 Ints isn't world beating for me anyways. That said, I do think that 5 game stretch was some of the best Jimmy and it was an awesome feeling to have some hope at the position after years of crap.
Brock was a rookie 3rd stringer with the playoffs on the line. He broke records and did things during his run that I never seen Jimmy do during his entire tenure. I get the statistics and spray charts look similar and that's fine, I don't think how they looked on the field was similar if for nothing else the escapability/athleticism and pocket movement/awareness that Jimmy simply doesn't have.
Meh people are discounting what Jimmy did on a horrible roster, to prop up what Brock did on one of the best rosters in football (on both sides of the field)
I believe over Jimmy's last 5 games our defense had 7 TOs and over Brock's 8 games (not including the eagles game) our defense had 20 TOs
#49ers with Garoppolo led the #NFL in points-per-drive, even though they had the highest FG-to-TD rate in the league. How? The Niners scored on an outlandish 62% of Garoppolo's drives. #GoNiners #49wz pic.twitter.com/jkZz4TD2tK
— Chris Wilson (@cgawilson) January 28, 2018
The #49ers 2017 offensive makeup and output with and without Jimmy Garoppolo is even crazier (and impressive) than you may think: pic.twitter.com/onBmK3lOmh
— Graham Barfield (@GrahamBarfield) July 17, 2018
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
This is a reflection on how bad Hoyer and Beathard were, not how good Jimmy was. He played good that year, but he was not elite. Brock played elite last year. Call it the supporting cast if you want, but his output was elite.
Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:
Originally posted by Furlow:
Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:
I'm fascinated by Trey's ceiling so I can't jump immediately on the Brock bandwagon.
I can't jump on any bandwagon after we passed up on the chance to develop Vance McDonald at QB. He was so big, so strong, so fast, his ceiling as a QB was just out of this world. I'm still not over it
Dumb and dumber lol
Originally posted by tankle104:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Originally posted by tankle104:
Jimmy doesn't deserve all the credit but he does deserve some. Every phase of the team impacts the other.
for example, a defense struggles to be a top 5 defense if the offense isn't efficient and doesn't convert third downs. It's hard for a defense to stop the other team from scoring if the offense is turning the ball over or if special teams is letting up bad field position.
so no, Jimmy doesn't play defense but his efficiency did positively impact the defense. Him converting third downs very well does help keep the defense rested and give good field position for special teams to punt from/coverage.
all of those things do play a part in the teams overall success. Look what happened to our defense as the eagles game went on when our offense was inept and broken because we didn't have a qb? They wore down and were consistently in bad position.
so you can't say Jimmy didn't positively impact the overall teams performance and contribute to us winning. He just had limitations and it made it very difficult to beat the top tier teams that have top tier quarterbacks.
it's why I keep saying I want an elite/HOF caliber qb so our team doesn't have to be stacked and play a perfect game to compete.
I think this is a good example of why Kyle Shanahan's record has been poor in games outside of Garoppolo starts (not counting Purdy). We've had backup level quarterback play, being kind. Hoyer, Beathard, Mullens... these are bad players. Jimmy is an average QB. He deserves credit because he played well at times, and being an average QB in the NFL isn't easy.
That's not including the fact that he took over a dumpster fire team, and had another full season where seemingly every key player on the team missed significant time. Almost every losing stretch the team has had since the team turned the corner under Kyle has been marred by significant injuries, including at the QB position.
I believe i just heard a podcast that said that since 2004 (2014?) we've only had 5 years where the starting QB started every game. That's insane.
Meanwhile the mannings, Farve, Bree's, Brady etc has stayed healthy for like 2 decades at a time 😭😭
Originally posted by Giedi:
Well Brock's 8 games vs Trey's 4 games - I guess it means Brock is twice as durable as Trey?
Point being, I think Brock's durability hasn't been talked about vs Trey's. Lots of talk about air yards and QB Power, but not a lot about durability. I think QB's are getting more injured simply because the rules force teams to concentrate so much on the QB. Pass interference and no blindsiding rules simply don't allow DB's to be able to cover WR's and TE's much anymore. So teams have to focus on disrupting the QB's timing Rythm and force the QB to move, and that means they will get hit more. Despite the rules protecting the QB.
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Giedi:
Well Brock's 8 games vs Trey's 4 games - I guess it means Brock is twice as durable as Trey?
Point being, I think Brock's durability hasn't been talked about vs Trey's. Lots of talk about air yards and QB Power, but not a lot about durability. I think QB's are getting more injured simply because the rules force teams to concentrate so much on the QB. Pass interference and no blindsiding rules simply don't allow DB's to be able to cover WR's and TE's much anymore. So teams have to focus on disrupting the QB's timing Rythm and force the QB to move, and that means they will get hit more. Despite the rules protecting the QB.
One got hurt because a big guy fell on him wrong during a run play. The other guy got hurt because a guy missed his block.
Nothing to do with rules.
Some interesting data: QB usage highest in NFL history -- record number of designed QB runs, record number of sneaks, 2nd most QB scrambles in league history. Perhaps related -- all time high 69 starting QBs used because of rotation or injury.
— Judy Battista (@judybattista) February 26, 2023
Originally posted by Giedi:
I think it does have something do to with rules. The NFL rules favor the passing game hence the QB's will be passing more than running the ball. It follows that QB's will be holding the more often and will be the focus of the defense one way or another (whether running it or passing it).
.Some interesting data: QB usage highest in NFL history -- record number of designed QB runs, record number of sneaks, 2nd most QB scrambles in league history. Perhaps related -- all time high 69 starting QBs used because of rotation or injury.
— Judy Battista (@judybattista) February 26, 2023
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Giedi:
I think it does have something do to with rules. The NFL rules favor the passing game hence the QB's will be passing more than running the ball. It follows that QB's will be holding the more often and will be the focus of the defense one way or another (whether running it or passing it).
.Some interesting data: QB usage highest in NFL history -- record number of designed QB runs, record number of sneaks, 2nd most QB scrambles in league history. Perhaps related -- all time high 69 starting QBs used because of rotation or injury.
— Judy Battista (@judybattista) February 26, 2023
But again, our QBs didn't get hurt because of this. One got hurt on a run play so that doesn't fall under your pass more umbrella.
The other got hurt on play #6 on a drive where there was 3 run plays and 3 pass plays. So that doesn't fall under your pass more umbrella either.
If you want to argue thr NFL a a whole, then by all means. Your initial comment was about Brock and Trey. Neither falls into your "rules" argument
I think QB's are getting more injured simply because the rules force teams to concentrate so much on the QB. Pass interference and no blindsiding rules simply don't allow DB's to be able to cover WR's and TE's much anymore. So teams have to focus on disrupting the QB's timing Rythm and force the QB to move, and that means they will get hit more. Despite the rules protecting the QB.So I don't know where you got the idea I was only talking about Brock or Trey.
Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:Originally posted by Furlow:Originally posted by CharlieSheen:Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:I'm fascinated by Trey's ceiling so I can't jump immediately on the Brock bandwagon.
I can't jump on any bandwagon after we passed up on the chance to develop Vance McDonald at QB. He was so big, so strong, so fast, his ceiling as a QB was just out of this world. I'm still not over it
Dumb and dumber lol
dude even had a broken finger nail, couldn't even grip the ball, they never gave him a chance...but his ceiling was so high at QB
Originally posted by Giedi:Your initial comment
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Giedi:
I think it does have something do to with rules. The NFL rules favor the passing game hence the QB's will be passing more than running the ball. It follows that QB's will be holding the more often and will be the focus of the defense one way or another (whether running it or passing it).
.Some interesting data: QB usage highest in NFL history -- record number of designed QB runs, record number of sneaks, 2nd most QB scrambles in league history. Perhaps related -- all time high 69 starting QBs used because of rotation or injury.
— Judy Battista (@judybattista) February 26, 2023
But again, our QBs didn't get hurt because of this. One got hurt on a run play so that doesn't fall under your pass more umbrella.
The other got hurt on play #6 on a drive where there was 3 run plays and 3 pass plays. So that doesn't fall under your pass more umbrella either.
If you want to argue thr NFL a a whole, then by all means. Your initial comment was about Brock and Trey. Neither falls into your "rules" argument
My quote was...
I think QB's are getting more injured simply because the rules force teams to concentrate so much on the QB. Pass interference and no blindsiding rules simply don't allow DB's to be able to cover WR's and TE's much anymore. So teams have to focus on disrupting the QB's timing Rythm and force the QB to move, and that means they will get hit more. Despite the rules protecting the QB.So I don't know where you got the idea I was only talking about Brock or Trey.
Well Brock's 8 games vs Trey's 4 games - I guess it means Brock is twice as durable as Trey?
Point being, I think Brock's durability hasn't been talked about vs Trey's. Lots of talk about air yards and QB Power, but not a lot about durability. I think QB's are getting more injured simply because the rules force teams to concentrate so much on the QB. Pass interference and no blindsiding rules simply don't allow DB's to be able to cover WR's and TE's much anymore. So teams have to focus on disrupting the QB's timing Rythm and force the QB to move, and that means they will get hit more. Despite the rules protecting the QB
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Giedi:Your initial comment
Originally posted by krizay:
Originally posted by Giedi:
I think it does have something do to with rules. The NFL rules favor the passing game hence the QB's will be passing more than running the ball. It follows that QB's will be holding the more often and will be the focus of the defense one way or another (whether running it or passing it).
.Some interesting data: QB usage highest in NFL history -- record number of designed QB runs, record number of sneaks, 2nd most QB scrambles in league history. Perhaps related -- all time high 69 starting QBs used because of rotation or injury.
— Judy Battista (@judybattista) February 26, 2023
But again, our QBs didn't get hurt because of this. One got hurt on a run play so that doesn't fall under your pass more umbrella.
The other got hurt on play #6 on a drive where there was 3 run plays and 3 pass plays. So that doesn't fall under your pass more umbrella either.
If you want to argue thr NFL a a whole, then by all means. Your initial comment was about Brock and Trey. Neither falls into your "rules" argument
My quote was...
I think QB's are getting more injured simply because the rules force teams to concentrate so much on the QB. Pass interference and no blindsiding rules simply don't allow DB's to be able to cover WR's and TE's much anymore. So teams have to focus on disrupting the QB's timing Rythm and force the QB to move, and that means they will get hit more. Despite the rules protecting the QB.So I don't know where you got the idea I was only talking about Brock or Trey.
Well Brock's 8 games vs Trey's 4 games - I guess it means Brock is twice as durable as Trey?
Point being, I think Brock's durability hasn't been talked about vs Trey's. Lots of talk about air yards and QB Power, but not a lot about durability. I think QB's are getting more injured simply because the rules force teams to concentrate so much on the QB. Pass interference and no blindsiding rules simply don't allow DB's to be able to cover WR's and TE's much anymore. So teams have to focus on disrupting the QB's timing Rythm and force the QB to move, and that means they will get hit more. Despite the rules protecting the QB
